.300 blackout

This is a discussion on .300 blackout within the Cartridges & Calibers forums, part of the Sniping Related category; The other day I got a glimpse's of something called a .300 blackout. it said something about is a special purpose sniper round used by ...

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Thread: .300 blackout

  1. #1
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    .300 blackout

    The other day I got a glimpse's of something called a .300 blackout. it said something about is a special purpose sniper round used by police force's around the u.s. something about maximum effectiveness of 25yrds to 75yrds. and it was designed to fill the "gap" between the .308win and the .223. something about the .308s tendency to over penetrate in CQB. and the .223s tendency to, per say not cut the mustard. is this true?
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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    I highly doubt blackout will penetrate as far as .223. From 25-75 yards, the blackout really doesn't do much that a 9mm or .40 can't do. 300 blackout has two purposes and does those well. It allows a 30 cal bullet to be shot from an ar15 format, and it shoots really quiet through a 30 cal suppressor. I may be wrong, but I don't see much of an application for LEO's.
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    thanks for the info.
    Mailman


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    Have a DPMS Sportical that was not getting shot much. Been using a couple other AR's for a lot longer. Swaped out the barrel to 300 Blackout. And i just love the thing now. Think of it as a light modern 3030. A bunch of retained energy beyond 250 yards. Their are a couple coyotes that will attest to that
    Last edited by Desert_308; 04-02-2013 at 09:26 AM.

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    Senior Member gsmithplm's Avatar
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    It's a necked up .223 that was designed by AAC to be used with a standard M4 lower and mags. It's a CQB weapon and is intended to be shot with a suppressor. It's one of several 30 cal rounds designed with the lucrative military market in mind.

    Loaded with a heavy subsonic bullet, it delivers a lot of kinetic energy to the target without a lot of over-penetration problems. I'm not sure what it brings to the sporting market that a number of other calibers don't but as Desert say's the coyotes aren't going to be voting for it.
    Graham Smith, SFC, US Army (Ret)
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    Mailman, where in Oregon are you? I'm in Salem. The 300 BLK has been around for a long time but has really taken off since the fall of 2011. Where have you been? Just kidding.

    I don't know where you got your information but it's not a special purpose sniper round for use between 25-75 yards. There is no such thing as a sniper round in my opinion. A sniper is a person in the military (I won't say LE doesn't have snipers though) that has gone through intense training to be able to claim the title of a sniper. I own three precision rifles that are similar to what a trained sniper might use but they aren't sniper rifles themselves. Get someone that doesn't know how to use them and they are just really expensive noise makers. I'm not lecturing at all, just helping to inform. Kinda like the term assault rifle. My rifles have never assaulted anyone. Like spoons didn't make Michael Moore fat.

    Anyway back to your post. The 300 BLK is based off the 300 Whisper round that has been around since the 1990s and is a trademarked name. The problem with the 300 Whisper was that the exact specs needed to be bought from SSK as well as the right to use the name. Sometimes this resulted in inconsistant chamber sizes. The BLK looked to take an awesome concept and make it commercially successful. The 300 BLK is SAAMI approved and therefore anyone can make it without paying royalties to AAC. It's an awesome round and has many advantages. It is not the uber ultimate round. That doesn't exsist.

    The 300 BLK can easily be made from .223 brass by cutting just below the shoulder and running it through a 300 BLK sizing die. It's a little more complicated than that, but not much. .308 bullets are one of, if not the, most manufactured bullets in the States. For use in .308, .30-06, and .300 WM (as well as 300 BLK) You can load just about any .308 bullet into a BLK round. The other difference between this and other uber ninja calibers is that EVERYTHING except the barrel is the same for .223. IF a police dept wanted to switch to it they would just need to swap barrels. I like the idea of the 6.8 SPC but you need a different barrel, bolt, and mags. Not a huge obsiticle but more of a hassle than BLK. Ballistically the 300 BLK is much like a .30-30.

    "Maximum effectiveness between 25-75 yards." I think not. Again it's not the ultimate round. I like my .223 AR and won't ever sell it. I like my .308 AR as well. It does things that these don't and some things it can't do. I think it has great potential for military and LE.

    Here's the scenario: (I'm not LE or military so don't think this is "how it is.") You have a bad guy inside a structure with possible light construction (easily penetrated) walls and possible innocents somewhere inside. You know you want to send in X number of people but also have X number of people for outside perimeter security. You look at your availible weapons and who is trained/ qualified to use the different types you have.

    Traditionally: You either A- have several team members use HK MP5 9mm sub machine guns and several use M4 firing a .223 round. Or B- Everyone uses M4 type rifles because that's what you have on hand.

    Here's the problem. You have to decide, based on whatever intel you have which may or may not be accurate, how to split up your personel if you do the MP5/M4 route. Also keep in mind the 9mm fires a 115 grain bullet that is useful for being quiet inside a structure but very limited on effective range should you need to use it further than 50 yards. Even that distance should the bad guy be hoped up on drugs or even just full of adrenaline may prove ineffective. Your alternative is to use the .223 round inside a house. Protecting your hearing becomes a real concern as well as over penetration, penetration through walls, needing more rounds just to put the subject down based on .223 effectiveness (not bashing the .223- I don't want to get shot by it!)
    Lets say the bad guy runs out the back while being chased by an MP5 weilding entry member. He runs through a narrow alley and into a large wharehouse that is not fully secure inside by your team. Maybe the outside is but there are large open spaces inside. The member with the MP5 now has to engage a bad guy across a large wharehouse with a 9mm sub machine gun. Not ideal

    With the 300 BLK. You do your best guess as to how many members will make entry again based on your intell. Only this time the entire team has 9" 300 BLK rifles with suppressors. Total length being less than a 16" upper. (Mine is!) You have your entry members load up with 300 BLK subsonic rounds. These are 200+ grain expanding bullets travelling at the same speed as the 9mm rounds only twice as heavy- they go up to 240 grain expanding. These will have much more energy on impact than a 9mm and won't over penetrate like a centerfire supersonic rifle round. Many deer have been taken at 100 yards and in with expanding subsonic rounds from 300 BLK. Your guys can have 30 round mags of this (using very common USGI aluminum magazines) and maybe one or two more. Also they have several magazines on their chest rig or whatever loaded with Barnes 110 grain supersonic Vor Tx ammo. These will be super sonic and even out of a 9" barrel will penetrate 24" of ballistic gel at 300 yards! Yes, that is not a typo. The Barnes bullets are designed to expand at even low velocities compared to most rifle velocities. Your perimeter guys will be carrying these rounds loaded up with maybe some subsonic rounds in mags in case they need to switch to entry duty at the last second or in the middle of the fight.

    The same senario happens. Entry guys going in but with subsonic 300 BLK rounds loaded up. Someone runs out the back and into the large warehouse. An entry member makes the call over the radio that he is going after him. An outside perimeter member changes mags from supersonic to subsonic and runs in to take the place of the member chasing the runner. The entry guy that ran into the warehouse changes mags to supersonic and when engaged by the runner across the warehouse, nails him at 200 yards- dropping him instantly. Everyone has the same ammo in case a large shootout happens as well. Same mags, same M4 style rifle. Big difference is that with a 9" barrel there is seriously more energy with the 300 BLK than a 9" .223 round.

    For civilians, what does this mean? I have a 9" upper with suppressor that is shorter OAL than my 16" 300 BLK upper. Since the bore is larger it is more efficient and doesn't lose as much velocity per inch of barrel length that a .223 does. A 300 BLK shines a 0-400 yards. I will make a bolt statement and say that nothing is better at that distance, with an SBR. Still a 16" will be great but it really comes into it's own as an SBR. Also you have the ability to hunt with it and have more energy on impact than a .223.

    I think the .223 has some advantages: more factory loaded ammo availibility and better ballistics in the 500-800 yards for varmit hunting. It's also better for that range if working on precision shooting. For hunting or military/LE use I'm sure the 6.8 SPC is better at long range but still fails to do what the 300 BLK does in the short range or out of an SBR. It also needs specialty parts other than just the barrel, needs uncommon brass to load and has limited factory loads- comparitively.

    Is it the be all end all round? No. Nothing is. You always give up something to gain somewhere else. 300blktalk.com is a great forum with lots of info. I'll never sell off my .223 Rock River but I really like my two 300 BLK rifles. Hope this helped and didn't come off like everything else is obsolete now that the BLK is on the scene.
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  7. #7
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    I like it quite well I have shot it out of my AR-15 platform and I built a custom 700 in this caliber. I am posting a link to my local forum where I wrote a review on my .300 blk 700.M&S Precision LLC. Remington 700 300 BLK - INGunOwners I had alot of fun with this for a couple of months and not kind of ready to open the action up to a little hotter caliber.

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    Just curious, why a .300aac/blackout bolt gun? Seems odd to me.

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    Accuracy gain, extreme quietness with subsonic loads no action cycling. Gun is very versatile I have shot 110gr.-220 gr. subs and super rounds through it. It was very fun to shoot out of the intended ranges it was meant for @ 700-800 yards if you didn't check your anti cant level it could be the difference between a hit and a 2 foot miss. The gun was a extreme blast to shoot out at distance and sharpened my technique for all my other calibers.

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    MarioM, what was your load for 700-800? I just saw this video Travis Haley shoots a Spikes Tactical 8" SBR out to 750 meters. Holy crap. I have two BLK rifles and am kicking around the idea of another. Thinking of getting the Wilson Combat 18" upper. It's optimised for 16" to run subs and supers. The 18" may not keep subs to subsonic speeds but will still be reliable, per a factory rep I spoke with on the phone on Friday.

    They built the 18" to add a little FPS over a 16". There isn't as much gain/loss as with a .223 because it's a more efficient caliber. However there should be 20-50 FPS increase with an 18" if handloaded a little hot. I'm just guessing. I was all set to buy a 18" .223 to shoot 75/77 grain pills at longer than normal ranges for .223 but then I saw what Travis did and now I'm thinking not.

    Don't know if I should go with 110 VMAX/Barnes Vor-Tx for a little less drop but it will have more drift and less KE on impact. Or if I should go with 125 grain Speer TNT/ Nosler Ballistic Tip for more drop but less drift, more KE on impact.

    Thoughts?
    Ecclesiastes 10:2- The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

    Rights are what you have the freedom to do, not what you can GET FOR FREE!

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