front focal plane reticle or rear?

This is a discussion on front focal plane reticle or rear? within the Optics forums, part of the Sniping Related category; Which is the way to go for sniper rifles?...

Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6

    front focal plane reticle or rear?

    Which is the way to go for sniper rifles?

  2. #2
    Member BobinNC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Louisburg
    Posts
    42

    Re: front focal plane reticle or rear?

    Quote Originally Posted by ryankirwan
    Which is the way to go for sniper rifles?
    I don't know about "sniper rifles", as I don't own any, however for a precision rifle, FFP scopes are generally superior to SFP scopes.

    The following caveats apply:

    1) For a FFP scope to be worthwhile, you must understand and USE the MIL or MOA ranging capability of the reticle. FFP's are better than SFP's only for the ability to range at any power.

    2) In a fixed power scope it does not matter what focal plane the reticle is at.

    3) There are more choices in mil type reticle SFP scopes than FFP scopes. But that is slowly changing.

    4) Most shooters don't know it, but FFP variable scopes came before SFP variable scopes. SFP was the later design, and represented better technology. It was only with the advent of ranging reticles did FFP come back into vogue.

    5) In low light (like hunting at dawn or dusk), without illumination, a SFP scope is better than FFP scope, due to constant reticle size. Add illumination and the FFP takes the lead again.

    6) If you have a laser rangefinder, and it works, and you use it, it does not matter what focal plane your reticle is. You can dial your range and hit your target.

    7) Turrets that match your reticle is more important than what focal plane your reticle is at. But have a FFP, w/turrets and reticle that match is the best of all worlds.

    The above is IMHO....YMMV

    Bob

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    54
    I prefer FFP, so I can range and holdover at any magnification.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Xelera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    561
    In combat zones, do they use lasers now or still rely on reticles? I imagine there are times lasers could be detected, but ranging with mil-dot in the woods, desert, etc, is pretty useless without objects/targets of known size right?

    I guess you could always assume a man-sized target is 6ft tall (ie, 2 yds for easy math) to range, but if he's 5'10 there's some error.

    Example 1: 6ft/2yd/72" sized man, taking up 2.0 mils in the scope...
    2(yds)x1000/2.0(mils) = 1000 yds to target

    Example 2: 5'10"/1.94yds/70" sized man, taking up 2.0 mils in the scope...
    1.94(yds)x1000/2.0(mils) = 970 yds to target

    For a 175gr SMK bullet at ~2650fps in .308, the drop between 950 and 1000 yds is 3.5 MOA. Linearly (for ease of math) thats 1.75 MOA difference between 970 and 1000 yards. If you assumed a two foot tall man, and dialed in your elevation for that, your POI is roughly 17.5 inches above your POA. That could be a miss, for only a 2" difference in the assumed target size, right?

    I know people probably aren't mil ranging human targets at 1k yards with a .308 in combat and LE situations, and the further out you go, the less effective mil-dots are for ranging (ie, pretty useless at 1700 yards, as a 0.1 mil error can change your estimated range by 150+ yards in some cases) but this was just to sort of demonstrate my original inquiry... What do you do with no laser, and having to best guess object sizes (deer, people, vehicles/tires, etc)?
    "This is nuclear power, it's not rocket science"
    "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"


  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,270
    Ranging is the last thing I would put on the list of why the FFP is useful. Using it for holds is much more important as the laser will be more accurate.

    I also don't have any sniper rifles but on my comp rifles I will take a FFP scope any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a SFP scope.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6
    How do you guys define "Sniper Rifle"?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Xelera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    561
    A rifle currently issued to and used by a person designated as a military sniper.
    "This is nuclear power, it's not rocket science"
    "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"


  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6
    LOL... I guess this site should be named "compcentral" or "precisioncentral"

  9. #9
    Member BobinNC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Louisburg
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by ryankirwan
    LOL... I guess this site should be named "compcentral" or "precisioncentral"
    ryan,

    Mele who owns the joint, is a sniper, and can call this site anything he likes. But my crack about not owning any "sniper rifles", was an acknowledgment by me that:

    I am not, and never was a military or LEO sniper.

    I have no aspirations to become a "sniper", and at 58 years old, I do not think I will be called on to be one.

    And I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

    So, I do not really know what might or might not be the advantages of a FFP scope on a real "sniper rifle" used by one, since I have no experience in that field of work.

    What I did address was why I thought an FFP scope has advantages over an SSP scope, from my humble perspective.

    And Rob1 is right. Hold offs and comeups using your mildots are more important than ranging. I left that part out, and I was in error for doing so.

    Bob

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    103
    BobinNC, I totally agree with you, I am in the same boat in all aspects.

    Although there are many of us civvies" on this site, there are also quite a number of serving and/or retired vets as well, and this sight as you stated, is owned by one.

    Many shooters like competeing in tactical matches, and some just like the rifles.
    Althgough I do not own a rifle as discribed, I certainly DO own a number of scopes that are used and employed by snipers - or "tactical shooters", whatever people call them these days, and like the graduated reticles for ranging.
    In the types of matches I sometimes compete in, and the type of hunting I sometimes do, these are almost manadatory.

    I often hold over instead of using the turrets in a match when conditions are switching fast, and the mil-dot is a great help then.
    Also, where I hunt, I know the location of every shootable rock around , and can tell by first ranging a rock or tree, then the animal, just how big its body is, then I can judge exatly where to put the cross hairs , after getting the range off the geovids.

    ironsighter
    good judgement comes from experience - a lot of that comes from bad judgement!

Ads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. NIB Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40 M3 Front Focal Plane
    By Derek Myers in forum Classifieds - Optics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-25-2012, 11:47 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-05-2009, 11:20 PM
  3. Leupold Front Focal Plane LR/T Coming Soon
    By Promethean in forum Optics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-23-2007, 06:30 AM
  4. Range Finding with first focal plane reticle
    By Voldermortist in forum Optics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-09-2005, 04:58 PM

Search tags for this page

front focal plane

,

front focal plane vs rear

,

front focal plane vs rear focal plane

,
front focal plane vs. rear focal plane on optics
,

front focal vs rear focal

,
front vs rear focal
,
front vs rear focal plane
,
leupold front vs rear focal plane
,
rear focal plane
,
rear focal plane reticle
,
rear focal plane scopes
,
what is front focal plane on rifle scopes
Click on a term to search for related topics.