Sniper & Sharpshooter Forums banner

Rudolph Tactical 6-24

48K views 82 replies 16 participants last post by  cheaptrick 
#1 · (Edited)
As referenced in another thread here, Rudolph Optics has sent us a 6-24 Tactical for our consideration. We just got hit with a blizzard today, and it doesn't look like I'll be able to get some tracking tests done for a few days, so I figured I'd just start the thread and begin talking about this thing.



I assume because this is a demo scope, it shipped in a very nice wood box. Classy no doubt. Inside, the scope was wrapped in a padded scope cover, sunshade, and a lens pen was included. No manual, spec sheet, or anything else was found.







The scope is sized and weighted similarly to other 6-24's in it's approximate price range such as the Vortex Viper PST and Bushnell ERS. The finish on the scope was right along with what you'd see on most scopes in this price range. It has a european-style diopter for fast adjustments. I dislike this "feature" but I will not take any points away because this is how a great many scopes are setup these days. Why in the hell someone want's to have their diopter loose and able to be easily changed is beyond my understanding. Though as I said, the Rudolph is no different from a great many others in this regard. The magnification ring is easy to adjust, but not too easy. It's serrated design lets a guy get a hold of it pretty well. There is a tiny bit of play in the ring when you go from increasing magnification to decreasing, but it is basically undetectable. As long as quality control is kept on their toes, this shouldn't be an issue. At about 12x, I can feel a "bump" when manipulating the magnification ring. Some little nub or something is rubbing right there at about 12x. It's not too distracting, but when doing an eval, I certainly noticed it.

The scope shipped with no specs, and is not listed anywhere on their website that I could find, so I have very little information about it. Most of the specs I'm going to report are through discovery. It has a 30mm tube and what appears to be a 50mm objective. The side parallax adjustment goes from 25yds to infinity. It has a fine reticle of some kind. I'll need to get it out in the field to measure it to see if it is delineated in mils or MOA. I must say, for a company to send out a scope for review without any information regarding it's specifications, is quite frustrating.





The turrets bear a close resemblance to those found on the Bushnell 6-24 ERS, and a great many other designs. The screw in the top can be loosened, and the turret lifted to allow the turret cap to move independent of the turret. This allows you to zero the turrets out at your rifles defined zero. You'll notice in the above image, that the indicator line does not match up with the markings on the turret cap. This is very annoying, as it can be difficult to see exactly what adjustment you are on as you run the turret. The good news is that it gets no worse, through the entire adjustment range. It doesn't get any better either. The turret cap position is locked in place by teeth which are cut into the turret which then engage opposing teeth in the turret cap. Once the cap has been slipped on the turret, there is no way to get it lined up if it is not already there. The lines on the elevation knob are off, but close enough that you should be able to operate. Through running the turret, I discovered it has 66MOA of total elevation travel. You can see that the turret clicks are achieved by the serrated ring which the detents engage as the brass-colored turret rotates. The clicks in this scope are not great. They are not horrible either. I'd place them ever so slightly better than a Leupold MK4, about dead equal with a Bushnell elite tactical, and decidedly worse than a Vortex PST. All of the scopes mentioned there have translating turrets just as this one does, meaning that the turret physically moves up and down as you adjust it. This is expected in the price range we're dealing with here.



Then we move on to the windage knob. Now we're talking about horrifying misalignment of the turret cap markings with the indicator. It settles pretty near right between the two markings. This type of thing is frustrating to deal with, as you have to make some kind of mental note as to which side of your intended adjustment the indicator is suppose to be on. It will frequently cause incorrect adjustments, causing you to come one click either direction to get on. This introduces a HUGE opportunity for the scope to fail tracking if a .25MOA click down is required to get on. Even expensive scopes such as S&B can have difficulty with one or two clicks down, and maintain tracking. This is a supremely annoying aspect of this scope. The single screw through the top of the turret is an extremely quick and easy way to re-zero your turret, and no doubt manufacture, but it does not afford the ability to precisely line up your indicator with the cap markings as you find on a Vortex PST or Leupy MK4. If Rudolph is going to keep this turret design, they need to implement some kind of quality control in regard to the turret markings.



The reticle is one of the high points of the scope. It's a very clean and fine reticle. It's a little shy on hold points down the vertical stadia beneath the crosshair, but that can be overlooked as I predominately dial my elevation anyway. As I said, I need to measure it to see if it's setup in mils or MOA. I hope to sweet baby Jesus that it's in MOA to match the turrets, or else this big "+1" just got turned into a big resounding "-2" on my scale of happiness. It has a thicker outer region, while the segments closest to the center are thinner, just as you'd find on a Bushnell G2 reticle. In the center is a target dot which is floating by itself. The reticle was very clean with no noticeable flaws. I'd put the reticles appearance right up there with Nightforce and Premier. Very concise and precise. The eyebox on this scope is not very forgiving at all, so she's a bit cranky to get behind. Though no better or worse than the Bushnell 6-24 ERS either. Eye relief seems very close to the Bushnell as well. The big down side for me is that it is second focal plane. I'm a huge fan of FFP optics, yet I don't detract anything from this scope as a result of that. It's purely a preference thing.

Looking through the scope is nice. Obviously it doesn't have the glass I'm used to with Premier or Kahles, but it is very good for the price range. Optically I can find no faults with it. It is right there with the Bushnell and maybe just a touch better than what you get in a Vortex PST. Though this is so very hard to quantify, as each person likes something a little different. Bottom line is that the optics in this scope will not inhibit you from engaging any target that I could imagine. It's a fine specimen of good japanese glass. Another high point for the scope!



Upon taking the sunshade off, I noticed the objective bell had been dented. I PM'd Dolph about this. He knew about it and he said it was because someone had dropped it. The lenses were very dirty on the ocular and objective side. These two items show me very clearly that they did not seem to care much about the condition this unit would be received in.

That is all I have for now. Once I have an opportunity to get it on a rifle and test I'll edit this post with an update. My first impressions are not good, and here's why:

This scope carries a retail price of $1350. In my opinion, the fit, finish, and overall function of this scope belongs in a product with a sub-$500 price tag... not $1350. Thus far, nothing about my experiences with this scope, or the company behind it, would want me to have one of these on my rifle instead of a Bushnell 6-24 ERS for $300-$400 less, and that's for a first focal plane scope! If you compare this to a Vortex PST in second focal plane, it's a $500 difference at retail, with the Vortex having an illuminated reticle! That's if all other things are equal, which they are not. The vortex scopes I've sampled (dozens) all have better clicks than this scope does. I think the price is a major deal-breaker on this scope. There are lots of companies that have moa/moa/sfp scopes in the $500 range that I believe are every bit as good as this scope seems to be, provided each tracks correctly. I'm not sure if they are just giving this a try and seeing what the market can bear or what, but anyone with any experience with other big brands we are used to seeing on rifles on websites such as this, I think would be very disappointed and hateful after paying $1350 for this scope.

I'll give Rudolph Optics some credit; they have generated a lot of marketing hype around their products! I received a pile of PM's from people anxious to hear what I had to say about this scope. They are sponsors on several different shooting forums, and seem to really be making a run at the USA market. I applaud them for this. Though I would caution them about taking the tone they initially took with me when I revealed the design similarities their products had with products of other brands. If Rudolph expects to succeed among tactical shooters, they need to have their product be representative of the price they are charging. If they are looking to compete with the "elmer fudd" brands you see cluttering up the shelves at Cabelas, bass pro, and other mass retailers... then this write-up has no bearing, because those customers do not demand of their scopes what we demand of our scopes. Rudolph will likely sell the heck out of these scopes among those types of customers, because optically they are quite nice.

There is but one final thing to know about this scope: Whether or not it tracks. If it does, this won't have been a complete waste of my time, so I'm very much hoping that it does.

UPDATE - 04/19/2014

I got out and got some tracking tests done. The rifle used was one of my 40X smallbore benchrest rifles. At 25yds, this rifle produces groups that measure in the .0's to .1's consistently. A .2 group at that distance is about as bad as it gets. At 50yds, it will shoot in the .2's -.4's consistently. The 6oz jewel and 1-piece rest removes as much "human" from the scenario as I can. Here it is:


Testing was done at 25yds.



Course of fire:
My aim point was at the center, I then came up 12moa, fired a shot, up another 12moa, fired a shot. I then went down in 12moa increments and fired a shot until I was 2 revs below my zero for a total of 48moa of adjustment. I did this until I had 5 shots in each group. Then I came right 24moa, fired a shot, up 48moa fired a shot, left 48moa fired, down 48moa fired, and right 48moa. I continued around the outer perimeter until each group had 5 shots.

Lets look at some measurements.

Top left to top right: 12.25" / .26" = 47.11 MOA
Bottom left to bottom right: 12.25" / .26" = 47.11 MOA
Top left to bottom left: 12.50" / .26" = 48.07 MOA
Top middle to bottom middle: 12.50" / .26" = 48.07 MOA
Top right to bottom right: 12.60" / .26" = 48.46 MOA
(I excluded the shot outside the group. Could have been the scope, could have been a flyer... unlikely, but I'll give the benefit to the scope)

Remember, the testing was done at 25yds, so we must do some math to get our true adjustment in moa. 0.26" at 25yds x4 gives us 1.04" which is as close to 1moa as we're going to get. Obviously this falls well within measurement error. Forgetting that for a moment, we have a .25" variance in the windage adjustments as compared to the elevation adjustments. That's well outside of any measurement error. It appears that the elevation turret is tracking pretty much dead on across 48MOA, but the windage turret is almost 1moa short. Academically, we have measured a variance, and this is noteworthy, but does it affect us in the real world? A quick calc for a 1000yd shot with a 308 in a 10mph wind @ 9:00 calls for L2.9 mils windage adjustment. That's 10.15 MOA. Given the 0.9" variance across 48moa, and 10moa is 20.83% of 48moa. So, 20.83% of .9 is 0.187moa... and .250moa equals a click. My brain hurts after being out in the sun all day, but if I'm correct, that means the error would be a little over half a click on a 10moa wind correction. At twice that, it would be about about 1.5 clicks. I don't see this affecting you much.

There is however, something concerning me in regard to the groups. Take a look at the groups in the above picture. They are all 5 shot groups. Notice a pattern? The groups on the perimeter, are tiny little bug holes, while the groups toward the center are opened up. I replicated this with another string to verify. As the scope is toward the center, it seems to wander a bit. So while it tracks correctly when group center is measured, it doesn't seem to hold its zero precisely when the erector is toward the middle of its range when moved for each shot in the group. I don't really have an explanation for it, but the groups don't lie. I've tested several other scopes with this same rifle, same rest, same everything... and I have not seen this before. If it's not the scope, I don't know what it is. While the scope tracked across 48moa when measuring the center of the group, it is very clear that it may not always go back to where you intend it to go as it relates to each individual shot. Averaging a group center, only tells part of the story. Each individual round presents more of a indicator of the scopes performance than the overall adjustment variance based only on center to center measurements.

The center string of groups that go horizontal from the middle were some other groups I shot. I wanted to see if POI shifted across the magnification range, and it did not. I also wanted some more groups to see if I could get the scope to settle down if I left it's turrets alone. I shot the groups from left to right. As you can see, it seemed to settle in. I shot a few more groups, and as long as I left the turrets alone, it would produce one little tiny hole centered over the POA. If I moved the turrets, then came back... it would seem to take a few shots to settle back in before I could get a respectable group out of it again. Once there, it would stay there.

As this scope is not available for destructive testing, I didn't want to risk damaging it by thumping on it with something to see if it would hold its POI. Obviously there is much more that could be done to test it's repeatability and ability to hold zero. Frankly, I'm tired of thinking about and working with this scope. At this point I'm going to conclude the testing, and get it sent back to Rudolph.

UPDATE - 1/23/15

As promised, I stopped by the Rudolph Optics booth at SHOT show this year. I met with Dolph and their new sales director in the USA, Todd Neice. Dolph was very easy to talk to, and he was legitimately very eager to hear what kind of optics we like to shoot. I gave them some ideas, and he listened very intently to what I had to say. He's a very nice guy and is very passionate about what they are doing. I'm going to be watching close to see what they come up with.

They had an updated tactical scope there that was a much more polished and finished product than the prototype model which was originally sent for review. The turrets are far better. The clicks are much more positive. They still have a little bit of wiggle, but are better than what you find on the competing scopes from bushnell. The turret scale lines up much more precisely with the indicator so there is no longer a question of what click you are on. It's not perfect mind you, but it is as good or better than any other scope in the price range. They changed the min parallax from 25yds to 50yds which I felt was a step backward, but they are still very good optically. They also worked in some price reductions from their predicted retail price from almost $1400 down to around $1100. Rudolph Optics has proven that they can take constructive criticism and implement changes without getting bitter about it. That's always nice to see!



 
See less See more
13
#2 ·
I dont understand why a scope manufacturer would send a dented scope to be reviewed by a retailer. Fatal flaw on their behalf and a poor business decision. For starters, it doesn't speak well for the optic's durability. I doubt if it will track properly after being handled so poorly. Second, it means they don't give a crap what they send out to their customers. They responded to you Greg, but would they respond to an average Joe like me. Makes me wonder.
 
#3 ·
If I had recieved something from a company to review that was nowingly dropped and they sent it to me anyway I would fail it with no more time to be wasted on it. They should have cherry picked the best to send to a reviewer, although any quality manufacturer should be able to just pull anyone from the shelf for a review without any worries. Given they told you, yea we dropped it, and still sent it to you tells me they are a crap company I would never entertain doing business with I could only imagine what they would tell a customer. Just poor service IMO. The turrets being that far off also tells me they are a sub-par scope in no way worth the asking price.
 
#9 ·
Ok people lets slow the roll here a bit. Now no one on this forum respects Greg's opinion more then I do, but lets see if it tracks, if the reticle matches the turrets and if it is repeatable and hold zero. I have seen "demo" optics come out before that left a bit to be desired and turned out to do well. Yes, I agree this is not exactly an auspicious opening, and it does appear to be a bit rudimentary in design, not ffp and for sure not feature laden like offerings half its price BUT, just but... Rudolph is planning on adding features, better turrets and this is just the mechanical sample and he is seeking Greg's opinion in order to continue to develop the turd into something worth while. It has been done before, and perhaps that is why this optic is not listed yet? Perhaps this is the base platform, worth about $400 retail, and he will be adding and more features and making improvements on the feedback he is getting? I know if I were to produce a optic that is EXACTLY what I would do. Send stuff as it is being developed to Greg, Mel, Lowlight and others to bash the hell out of then improve my design.
Now the lack of any manual may be because the features to be added and design improvements are not in there so no manual yet? Of course the lack of communication by the company is a BAD sign, and I may be wishful thinking, but I remember seeing other optics get bashed that turned out to be GTG after some design improvements so although I am NOT holding out hope, I am willing to give a benefit of doubt that is is actually a turd. Although I do smell poo it could just be Greg's incontinence :) .

Greg a few questions. Is the reticle so fine it is not useable in low light or really dark backgrounds? Fast focus or locking, can't tell from the photos? Does it appear if the turrets are just a throw on to get the scope out for feedback? I ask because the turrets shown on the website are very different, more in line with NF HS style and are hex set and not blade set.

It may just be me but when I see photographs on the site of the tactical series and there are many different design features show, no manual etc. it just makes me think this is still in the design phase.

Sully
 
#10 ·
I agree with Sully 100%. It's early to get so nasty. My hope here is that they will take this feedback to their design team, and get some positive changes implemented. Specifically in the turrets. Optically, the scope is good to go.

Sully, the reticle is pretty fine. If you'd lose a nightforce reticle in the background, you'd certainly lose this one. Lack of illumination is a valid concern. I lack a spec sheet and reticle subtension sheet, so I don't really know how thick/thin the reticle is. By "fast focus" do you mean the diopter adjustment in the ocular housing? If so, it is fast adjust... no lock. I mentioned how much I hate that, but don't hold it against Rudolph. These turrets look production to me. As you said, it appears to be a completely different cap design compared to those on their website.

My main conflict is with its price. Even if it tracks perfectly, this scope is not in line price-wise with its competitors. As far as SFP scopes in the $500 price range go, this one is better optically than quite a few of them if not all of them, and about the same as them in regard to its turrets.
 
#11 ·
Greg,

Thanks for your objective review so far!
I have just arrived back in South Africa, after a 24 hour trip, therefor the delayed response.

Like I have mentioned before, this is a demo scope that I have flown with me to the US and that I have send you.
Sorry for the unfortunate dent that was given to the objective, but that should not effect any of the qualities of the scope!
This design and demo is intended for our new Tactical Range and will replace the current one on the website.
The model will be manufactured for us by the same Japanese company that does manufacture Nightforce, Bushnell Elite and Vortex PST. etc.

Detail, like the precise lineup of the turrets to the markings etc. will be discussed with our manufacturer and will definitely be sorted out.
One change that will be made and that I have already discussed with the manufacturer is the changing of the side focus parallax setting to 50 yards to infinity and not from 25 yards.
Illuminating just the "floating dot" is also a serious consideration.
The MSRP of $1350 was an indication and might be adjusted downwards, but definitely not by $400-$500.
I will send through the specs of the model as well as the measurements and specs of the our own designed T3 reticle.....it is delineated in MOA.

Herewith the specs of the T3 reticle;

Text Diagram Line Technical drawing Font



I will be very surprise if the tracking is not 100%, but await your finding!

Thanks again for the time you have spend so far in doing the review and you surely do know what you are talking about.

South African Greetings!
 
#12 ·
The model will be manufactured for us by the same Japanese company that does manufacture Nightforce, Bushnell Elite and Vortex PST. etc.
Dolph, Thank you for your response and provided reticle spec sheet. What is the name of that Japanese company? I always thought that Vortex scopes were built in the Philippines, but I could be wrong.

Am I reading that right, that the reticle subtends correctly at 20x, and not 24x?

My valuation of the scope is only my opinion. Others may find it more valuable. For me, that scope would need a $600 price tag at most before I would even consider buying one. Even then, Rudolph is a new and unknown/unproven player here in the states. So I would need some kind of justification to buy one of these instead of the standard Nikon, Burris, Leupold type stuff in the same price range.
 
#13 ·
Orkan,

Sorry, typing mistake....not the Vortex PST...I believe the New Vortex Razor HD models are made in Japan!
All there other models are made in the Philippines.

Unfortuately I cannot mention my Japanese manufacturer's name, but it is fairly general knowledge who the main Japanese manufacturer is.

You are right, the reticle subtends at 20x magnification.

Just for interest, the following prices from the internet of comparable models ("probably" the same OEM manufacturer);

Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50mm. $1 800
Bushnell ERS 3.5-21x50mm. $1 700
Nikon Monarch X 4-16x50mm. $1 400
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50mm. $2 400
Huskemaw 5-20x. $1 500


Other makes (not same manufacturer):
Burris XTR 5-25x50mm. $1 500
Leupold MK4 8.5-25x50mm. $1 400


I respect your opinion about your evaluation of the Rudolph T1 6-24x50mm model and I accept the fact that it is a new and unkown player in the USA, but looking at the abovementioned prices of compareble optics from other brands , the $1 350 is not so far fetch. Besides one or two extra features on some of the other brands, mostly illumination, zero stop options and different magnification configurations, I can almost guarantee you there is no real difference in the quality of the optics of the first five mentioned brands and the new Rudolph T1 6-24x50mm.

Anyway, we have made up our bed and we are here to stay.......we are looking forward to the USA venture.
We keep on striving to have a better product and we pretty much know what to do in achieving that.

Regards
 
#15 · (Edited)
Dolph, most of the scopes on your list, could be compared to the Rudolph Tactical... and depending upon the reviewer, could go either way. I'd have no problem conceding that. As I said, the scope is very good from an optics standpoint, but optics alone, does not make a rifle scope. However, comparing it as "comparable" to the Vortex Razor, or Nightforce NXS is in no way an accurate assessment of the scope I have in front of me. That simply isn't an honest representation of the Rudolph Tactical, by any stretch of the imagination. It falls considerably short of even the Vortex PST.

The original PST's, a strong argument could be made that these Rudolph scopes are somewhat in line with them, if you ignore the massive price difference, and ignore the illumination, zero stop, and reticle options on the PST's. Early PST's had relatively poor quality control, and the "bad" ones, had turrets that felt similar to the turrets on this Rudolph Tactical. However, the new models, with the metal magnification ring... have undergone design changes. One of the most noteworthy of these changes is the upgraded clicks. At a street price of $950, the Vortex Viper PST FFP 6-24 is considerably cheaper than this Rudolph Tactical model, and superior in every respect save one: Optics. The view through the scope is pretty much equal through both. The SFP PST model is even less expensive!

Lets examine some facts.

Vortex Viper PST SFP 6-24 retails for $850, and can be found on the street for $750.
Rudolph Tactical SFP 6-24 retails for $1350, and we don't know a street price yet, but according to you, it will certainly be considerably more expensive than the PST.

Vortex PST has a zero stop.
Rudolph Tactical does not.

Vortex PST has illumination.
Rudolph Tactical does not.

Vortex PST turret markings line up with its indicator.
Rudolph Tactical does not.

Vortex PST has defined and solid clicks.
Rudolph Tactical is not nearly as good

Vortex is a very well known and widely respected company, whom has proven beyond a doubt that they will go to the ends of the earth for their customers.
Rudolph is a very new company (to us here in USA at least), and hasn't proven anything.

Given those facts, why should a buyer consider your scope at $400-$500 more than the Vortex Viper PST?

Those are some huge shortcomings I've pointed out. If your scope sold for $500, I think you'd really have something. You'd be able to compete with any companies product, anywhere. You'd give Nikon a run for their money! So we're clear, I don't think nikon has a true tactical scope either. They have many of the same shortcomings that the Rudolph scopes have. They are nuts if they think their Monarch X is worth $1400 when scopes like the Viper PST exist. It's very likely that their scopes would fare just as poorly in our review as the Rudolph has. As it stands, in my opinion the only place you have a market is somewhere that Vortex isn't.

Here's a short video comparing the clicks between the Rudolph Tactical and the Vortex Viper PST. Forgive my babbling... I just threw this video together in a few minutes.


Don't forget to watch in full HD 1080p! :)
 
#16 ·
Greg,

Unfortunately the retail price of the said model cannot and will never be around $500, as the cost to company is more than that.
I will forward your opinion and review about our model to our manufacturer and we are looking forward to their response, especially as they are the manufacturer of some of the other brands mentioned!

We are well aware and never doubt the fact that Vortex is a well known and widely respected company......they are only +\- 8 years operating and their success speaks for itself!
Shows you what can be done it a short time.......watch the space!

Going to the ends of the earth for our customers has been and will be our first priority, that is why our product is such a huge success in South Africa and that is our intention in the USA as well!

Regards
 
#18 ·
My biggest concern was matching reticle and turrets so check to the Dolph, but the turrets do concern me a bit. Dolph, are you keeping the over sized design on these or going back to the more subdued style on the other tactical scopes in your line?

Greg, what are planning to mount this on for testing? DTA?

Sully
 
#19 ·
Greg, what are planning to mount this on for testing? DTA?
No need for a centerfire Sully. In my experience, there is no way to tell if recoil will shell out a scope during testing. They can go out on the first round or not at all. For this reason, I usually use a very accurate rimfire to test tracking, and typically do it as close as the scope will parallax. In this case, I'll likely put the scope on one of my 40X's, and shoot at a distance of 25yds. This allows me the ability to remove all outside variables and run the scope to its outer adjustment limits with no other considerations. It's as raw of a test as I can produce outside of a lab.

Dolph, one question: In your post in the introductory thread regarding this scope, you said it had 80moa of travel, but when I counted what's available on the turret, I landed on 66MOA. I'm going to double check this as soon as I get back on monday, but if my numbers are right, can you comment on that?
 
#20 ·
Sulcop,

The Turret design will stay for the meantime and we will definitely look at any improvements in the future.

Orkan,

As far as the MOA travel goes. I have just done a quick check on the T1 4-16x50mm model, which is suppose to have exactly the same travel, herewith a picture attached.

Gun Rifle Air gun Benchrest shooting Shooting sport


The amount of turns you get with the turret is almost 5x 16MOA and that gives you 80MOA....it might be just under 80MOA.

Your 66MOA sounds a bit on the low side.

Regards
 
#23 · (Edited)
Orkan,

As far as the MOA travel goes. I have just done a quick check on the T1 4-16x50mm model, which is suppose to have exactly the same travel, herewith a picture attached.
The amount of turns you get with the turret is almost 5x 16MOA and that gives you 80MOA....it might be just under 80MOA.


Dolph, Look at the turret in that picture you posted, then look at this turret below:


You indicate 5 revolutions at 16moa giving you 80moa, and say that they should be the same. This scope has 12moa per turn, not 16, as clearly indicated in the picture above. 5x12=60. It's very clear at this point that you guys need to get a grip on the relationship you have with your manufacturer. I have no doubt that you believe in your product, but you've clearly been sold a bill of goods that does not match up with the expectation Rudolph has. Either that, or you clearly do not know what you're selling. The product most certainly falls short of being able to compete with Vortex offerings at any level. At $400 more expensive than the Bushnell, it can't compete there either.
 
#22 ·
That is not completely true. There are a great many scopes out there that will exhibit the same elevation and windage travel regardless of erector position. This scope seems to be in that category. With the elevation maxed, I got the same windage travel as when it was centered up. I'll be checking it again.
 
#24 ·
Orkan,

Oops that is a slip up.....that is like pouring gas on the fire for a guy like you!
How many revolutions have you counted on the scope you have, is it also 5x ?
Anyway, the final product will have 80MOA of traveling on the Elevation and Windage Turrets and we will certainly know what we are selling once we have our first models available.

Is there a specific reason why you keep on referring to Vortex the whole time?

Looking forward to your tracking review, hopefully that will be to your satisfaction!

South African Greetings!
 
#25 ·
Orkan,

Oops that is a slip up.....that is like pouring gas on the fire for a guy like you!
How many revolutions have you counted on the scope you have, is it also 5x ?
Anyway, the final product will have 80MOA of traveling on the Elevation and Windage Turrets and we will certainly know what we are selling once we have our first models available.
A bit dramatic don't you think? Is it unreasonable to expect a company to actually know the product they are selling? So you say the "right one" will have 80moa, and 16moa per turn. Well the clicks are bad enough in this scope, if you put 16moa on a turn using the same turret configuration, I would bet they would only be worse. Then the play in the turret would cause the indicator to bounce between two click markings rather than favor one of them.

Yes, this scope has about 5.5 revs, and I did verify that it only has 66moa of adjustment.

Is there a specific reason why you keep on referring to Vortex the whole time?
Why wouldn't I keep referring to it? It's clearly the best bang-for-your-buck sub-$1000 scope on the market. It is THE scope that all others in that price range are compared against. Your scope is $500 more expensive, has worse turrets, has fewer features, and comes from an unknown company that sends dented products to reviewers, and advertises incorrect data about their own products. Or are you simply insinuating that because we stock and sell vortex PST's, that we've got an agenda here? If no other scopes existed, and yours was the only one, I wouldn't have anything to compare it to, now would I?

Frankly, I had high hopes for this scope. I figured it HAD to be good, in order for someone to talk so highly of it, and be willing to send it out to a guy like me for review. Our customers are loyal to us because we give it to them straight. We don't pull any punches and we give them concrete recommendations. I figured since you were so confident I would be satisfied, I was going to see a "PST-killer" show up here. What arrived is far from it. If this is not the "production" scope, then why did you announce it? Remember this thread: http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/rudolph-optics/45213-brand-new-rudolph-tactical-series.html



That scope pictured is the same one that arrived here. Clearly, the turrets are not the same between the two models, even in your own picture.

I promise you one thing: If I'm selling something, I would make sure I know the details about it before advertising it. If this scope would have arrived and been a winner in its price range, my next communication to you would have been a dealer request and an opening order of $15k-$20k. Yet all I see is another scope with lackluster features and an inflated price. The backhanded insinuation that I would downplay your product to showcase one we already carry, shows just how out of touch you are with the high-end tactical shooter market, and has done nothing to help your cause.
 
#26 ·
As I see it Rudolph you should have hired Orkan to field test it well before advertising in the US. I'm not sure what you are selling in south africa. But if it is this scope and a guy like Orkan who is well know on this forum points out the issues he has pointed out I wouldn't argue with him and I'd get that stuff taken care of. The way I see it he is doing you a huge favor. If you had hire him you could have done this via email instead of public forum....however since that has happened my suggestion is to take his advice and make changes. Hopefully you can get the price down to a better level and fix the things he said and then have him retest it. Do this as many times as you need to get a solid product and then start selling them and you will sell a ton of them. Often there are people who come on here looking for a great starter scope. The Vortex is often the pic for someone who needs those features... So by you conversations here with Orkran I believe that is the target area you trying to reach.

For now it seems like what you've done is like if you were selling him a car and sent him a cheap economy used car trying to sell him on a new luxury car hes never seen because it was made in a factory other cars were made... He's given you a bunch of ammo to go back at your manufacturer with to fix. Stuff I would expect someone knowledgeable, and trying to sell, scopes would see. Also understand shooters here are not shooting 100 yards max. They need these features they are not looking for "tacticool" in a scope. It just does nothing for anyone. These people here use their scope and they need to work the way they want them to every time. If not its a waste of money.


Anyway that is my 2 cents. As is I cannot imagine spending the money for one of your scopes. And yes I am in the market for one but until the things Orkan mentioned are fixed and retested ...your scopes are not even in consideration. Not trying to be insulting just explaining how it is.

And if you wonder my background... I run a small manufacturing company I design manufacture and sell products all over the world for the industrial valve industry. I do have a clue about designing and selling products successfully.
 
#27 ·
Greg,

I think you are making to much of a deal about the small "dent" in the scope! I have explained to you what happened to scope, after I got to the USA and I thought I might as well send it to you, because it should not have any effect on the review qualities of the scope.
Furthermore I am sorry to have disappointed you so much with the "lackluster features and inflated priced" scope and that I had the audacity in sending " a guy like you" such a scope to review!

"If the shoe fits ware it"......I have never insinuated that you might receive backhands for down playing our product, but was just mere asking why you keep on comparing Vortex specifically to our product.
Also, I am more in touch with the high-end tactical shooters market than you think.....coincidently I am the co-founder and a shareholder in the biggest sporting goods outlets in South Africa and we are by far the biggest sellers of Nightforce, Vortex, Bushnell, Nikon, Zeiss, S&B etc. in Africa.....that is where the interest and idea of the own brand started.

Having said that, I do not mind the critics and was in some way expecting that with a new product and specially becoming a sponsoring member of a US forum....that is why I took the chance of sending the scope for a review.

Looking forward to your tracking review....that's if you still think it's worth doing it?

Regards
 
#29 ·
I think you are making to much of a deal about the small "dent" in the scope! I have explained to you what happened to scope, after I got to the USA and I thought I might as well send it to you, because it should not have any effect on the review qualities of the scope.
Furthermore I am sorry to have disappointed you so much with the "lackluster features and inflated priced" scope and that I had the audacity in sending " a guy like you" such a scope to review!

"If the shoe fits ware it"......I have never insinuated that you might receive backhands for down playing our product, but was just mere asking why you keep on comparing Vortex specifically to our product.
Dolph, I started off defending that dent. As did others. I spent my time talking about the rest of the scope, it's problems, and the price point which I view to be completely insane given your direct competition in the market. Your tone of responses is what has caused me to take a more hostile approach to this. This last post of yours is more hostile still. "If the shoe fits?" So you won't directly call me a shill, but you will continue to indirectly do so. Lucky for me, most here already know I can't be bought, and I sure as hell will not compromise my integrity for the $100 I make selling a goddamn Vortex. It's the cheapest scope we sell here.

I am the co-founder and a shareholder in the biggest sporting goods outlets in South Africa and we are by far the biggest sellers of Nightforce, Vortex, Bushnell, Nikon, Zeiss, S&B etc. in Africa.....that is where the interest and idea of the own brand started.
For a person in your position, you might want to re-think your entire approach to what you are doing here. You may have a good handle on things in South Africa, but here... you have effectively as us American's say, **** the bed. I asked you several direct questions, and even went so far as to ask directly WHY someone should pay more money for fewer features, less travel, and worse clicks? The question remained unanswered.

You think I'm difficult to deal with, and this review was tough? Wait until some end users get a hold of your scopes and start posting their reviews on snipershide! If those guys receive the same product that I've received, your entire USA marketplace for this "tactical" scope will vanish like a fart in the wind.

I'm absolutely still going to do a tracking test. The truth will be known, regardless of my opinions.
 
#28 ·
He's comparing your scope to vortex because it is a better scope for the purposes of precision shooting in comparison to your scope. He is also pointing out the fact that vortex so happens to be $500 cheaper than your optic. To a buyer, it makes no sense to buy an inferior optic and pay significantly more for it.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Greg,

Thanks for your objective and comprehensive review.....obviously was hoping for a better result.
Seems like we have quit a bit of work to do on the design and we will most certainly ad some features, increase the travel and make the clicks more "positive" ......and most important work on the price!
Luckily we do not have the final product in our hand and we can do the improvements before placing the first order.

I am sorry if I have pressed the wrong buttons and that the tone of my comments caused you to take a more hostile approach......never meant to do that!
Hopefully I can clean the sheets and get the smell out of the bed!:D:D

Hope you will agree do a review in the future again of one of our models.

If you ever visit the Show Show or IWA, please come by our booth as I would like to meet you!

I am not sure if you have ever visited South Africa, but if you do ever have the chance (not trying to buy you) we can always do some long range shooting on a few live targets, like the picture below.

Trophy hunting Hunting Antelope Water bird


Thanks again for the review!

Regards
 
#32 ·
Dolph,

The treatment you got on this board was pretty humane when considering what you've put out there to review. Other boards and the precision rifle crew here in the states will not be as generous. As a rule, expensive foreign made optics with ambiguous pedigrees don't usually sell well, unless word of mouth and the product dictates otherwise. For example, one can look at the IOR marketing plan.

We all know Greg, and we also know he calls a straight up game. A booth at the SHOT will not equal any sales in this market. Right now, it appears to me that your scopes are crap. Good luck with that.
 
#34 ·
Crockett007,

Thanks for the nice introduction!
Come and say hallo at our booth at the next Shot Show an introduce yourself.....we would like to meet you!
If you need an invitation to enter the show, we will gladly supply you one...just let us know!

Kind regards
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top