Huge DATA-DRIVEN Long-Range Scope Comparison

Huge DATA-DRIVEN Long-Range Scope Comparison

This is a discussion on Huge DATA-DRIVEN Long-Range Scope Comparison within the Optics forums, part of the Sniping Related category; Hey, just wanted to let you guys know about a crazy scope comparison I just wrapped up. I spent 400+ hours on it (in my ...

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  1. #1
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    Huge DATA-DRIVEN Long-Range Scope Comparison

    Hey, just wanted to let you guys know about a crazy scope comparison I just wrapped up. I spent 400+ hours on it (in my free time, which I realize is nuts), and the line-up and tests are built on advice from a ton of industry experts. It's a unprecedented, data-driven field test focused on the best long-range scopes money can buy.

    Tactical Scopes: Field Test Results Summary & Overall Scores | PrecisionRifleBlog.com

    It's a pretty unique/original project, with some interesting results, so I thought there might be some guys on here interested in seeing it.
    wigwamitus and HoA-shooter like this.

  2. #2
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    great info!

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    Senior Member wigwamitus's Avatar
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    We need more reviews like this is all aspects of firearms and shooting gear ... data driven all the way !!!
    Barrett M99(32)
    McCree/Rem .300WM(24), Burris 5-25x, SCR-MIL
    Custom 6.5G(18), Burris 3-15x SCR-MIL
    Custom 5.56(18), Burris 1.5-8x CQB MIL
    Colt 5.56(10.3), IRD IR-Hunter Mk2, 35mm, 2.5x, 640(60), CQBL-1
    Custom 5.56(10.5) Holosun 515p+3xmagnifier, PAQ-4C
    BMC 5.56(14.5) LS 6.5-20x TMR, ir-lzr
    CMMG .22LR(16), LM ir-lzr
    CO-LR, L-3
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    2xPVS-14, 3p
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    PAS29/COTI
    Odin,17mm, 1x, 320(30)

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    Senior Member mike.h's Avatar
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    Great study....thanks
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  6. #5
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    If IOR offered more than one reticle the recon would have dominated the competition. It would be nice if they would offer up a MSR Reticle. But I don't ever see myself getting a FFP SCOPE. I'm really thinking about getting an Atacr. I was seriously considering the new Steiner with the MSR but it doesn't look like those are coming out anytime soon. Which is to bad because I would have liked to have seen how the steiners would have done in the above field test.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recondo84 View Post
    I was seriously considering the new Steiner with the MSR but it doesn't look like those are coming out anytime soon. Which is to bad because I would have liked to have seen how the steiners would have done in the above field test.
    I guess I haven't heard about the new Steiner. Which one are you referring to?

  8. #7
    Super Moderator Arkansas89's Avatar
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    I seen your statement for not getting to test the Tangent Theta's yet... I'm excited for that test, I imagine it will be somewhat of a shutout
    - Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD (.308 WIN)
    - Savage Model 11 (.270 WSM)
    - Remington 760 Gamemaster (.243 WIN)
    - Winchester Model 9422M (.22 Win Mag)
    - Marlin Glenfield Model 20 (.22 S-L-LR)
    - Marlin Glenfield Model 60 (.22 LR)
    - Remington 870 Express Magnum (12 ga.)
    - Winchester Ranger Model 120 (20 ga.)
    - Ithaca M-66 SuperSingle (.410 ga.)
    - Ultra-Hi by Miroku of Japan (.45 BP)

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrecisionRifleBlog View Post
    I guess I haven't heard about the new Steiner. Which one are you referring to?
    The pics didn't copy, but here is the story.

    The new Steiner T5Xi Rifle Scopes were introduced this past weekend at the Sniper's Hide Cup. The reception was overwhelming and giving the rest of you a chance to see what they are all about is in order.

    We spent a great deal of time talking with people such as yourself to find out what you wanted, what you liked, what you don't like to come up with our new scope line. Below is the end result.

    My apologies for the impromptu photos. What you are seeing below is the 3x-15x50mm version only. I will post pictures of the 5x-25x56mm tomorrow. It looks exactly the same only longer.







    - Utilizes Steiner's German engineered optical platform
    - Steiner precision optics & coatings
    - Designed, machined, and assembled in the USA
    - Low profile knobs
    - Foolproof second rotation indicator
    - Positive click engagement
    - Light weight (specs to follow shortly)
    - Short length on the 3x-15x, 5x-25x is the same length
    - Built in adapters for Tenebraex lens covers
    - Magnification numbers view-able from behind the scope
    - Locking diopter
    - Easy set zero stop
    - Removable turret cap
    - Right and Left easily identifiable on windage
    - Hard disconnect off for illumination
    - User enable/disable auto-off illumination
    - Large illumination area on the reticle

    A few specs. I know everyone will want to know length and weight and I will post that information when it becomes available to me. They aren't heavy by any means but I will get you the specs.

    - 34mm tube
    - Side P/A
    - P/A adjustable down to 20 meters on 3x-15x
    - 12 mils per roation
    - 2 full rotations
    - FFP

    3x-15x50mm

    - Length: 12.9 inches
    - Weight: 25.6 oz.

    5x-25x56mm

    - Length: 16.6 inches
    - Weight: 29 oz.


    In addition to the new scope we also have a new reticle called the SCR (Special Competition Reticle) that was designed through a collaboration of in-house product managers and several of our competition shooters as well as shooters not associated with Steiner. We owe a huge thank you to all of them for their time and hard work.

    Rather than go through too much about it I will just post these pictures and answer questions about it as they come up.

    Low Magnification



    Medium Magnification



    High Magnification



    Target Retail (Street Price) - These are subject to change but look to be spot on at the moment. I don't anticipate these to vary much if at all from now until actual delivery.

    T5Xi

    1x-5x24mm Rapid Dot 556: $1299
    1x-5x24mm Rapid Dot 762: $1299

    3x-15x50mm SCR: $1699

    5x-25x56mm SCR: $1899

    We are hoping to have the MSR reticle with a thinner floating cross available as well

    On the shelf delivery date is targeted for September 2014

    Short video to show the new turret system. Notice the tactile clicks

    Steiner T5Xi Turret System - YouTube

    A bit about the turret system. The entire rotation indicator assembly is located inside of the cap itself and is completely sealed. Nothing gets in there including dirt, moisture, or dust. If for whatever reason you have an issue with the turret you simply replace the entire assembly by loosening the 2 set screws that you would normally use to set the zero stop. Another nice feature is it allows you to change your turret without having to re-zero. If you take it off at the 4.3 mils mark for example then simply replace it at the 4.3 mils mark and you are good to go. Removing the turret is not an issue.

    Feel free to post your questions and we will answer them as best we can as quickly as we can.

    Last edited by Steiner Optics; 06-10-2014 at 09:02 AM.

    Wyfox, Quickdraw40, hk dave and 10 others like this.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkansas89 View Post
    I seen your statement for not getting to test the Tangent Theta's yet... I'm excited for that test, I imagine it will be somewhat of a shutout
    Might be...but seeing as very few people have actually seen one much less tested one...then all we know is what the manufacture has told us. I'm not willing to throw down that kind of money on a relatively new company and an unproven scope. In my opinion...let someone else find out how good they are.
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  11. #10
    Super Moderator Arkansas89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddd oo7 View Post
    Might be...but seeing as very few people have actually seen one much less tested one...then all we know is what the manufacture has told us. I'm not willing to throw down that kind of money on a relatively new company and an unproven scope. In my opinion...let someone else find out how good they are.
    New company? Unproven scope? You're right, here's what I found in regards to "no reputation"...

    "Lets get down to the dirty facts of history. As any responsible person knows, you must adequately address the past to have any shot at a positive and meaningful future. You'll be happy to know that the folks at Tangent Theta believe this to their very soul, and did not side-step or skirt around any difficult question that was asked in regard to the history of Premier Reticles. This was not really a surprise to me, as I've experienced this attitude from the start of our relationship. There has been a lot of speculation in regard to the acquisition of Premier, so today we set the record straight. This morning I had nearly a 1.5hr meeting with Andrew Webber, President of Tangent Theta, and Jim Whitty, Vice President of Tangent Theta. Also Present were Eric Eichhorst and Paul Lange. Unfortunately I failed to get Paul's official title, but he's the Virginian Premier service technician we all know and love. Eric is the Senior Engineer for Tangent Theta. So the facts represented below come from as direct source as possible, or at least as closely as I can absorb and relay them to you all.

    First, lets take stock of the brand names and companies involved in the back story here. Premier Reticles, Tangent Theta(TT), Armament Technology (ATI), Tennabraex, and Optronika.

    Fact #1 - Tangent Theta was started by Andrew Webber (owner of ATI), and had commissioned a scope design before they purchased Premier. ATI had become the exclusive distributor for Premier products around this same time, and no doubt kept them solvent for longer than they would have been without their involvement. Eventually, Premier was basically mismanaged into bankruptcy. It was at this time that ATI purchased Premier. The remaining inventory was rolled into ATI, and the technology was purchased by Tangent Theta. The key thing to take away from this is that Tangent Theta was already designing a new product prior to acquiring Premier's assets. Keep that in your mind as you read on.

    Fact #2 - Optronika was the design firm that was commissioned by Premier to create the Heritage line of optics. The way this works is that Optronika comes up with essentially a "rough draft" for the design, based on the requirements of the commissioning company. (premier) Then when the design is received by Premier, their engineers go to work on the finishing touches and design improvements. This can range from a complete feature redesign or a simple change of material to be used. I'm not certain as to what parts of that scope were Premier's idea vs. which parts were Optronika's. Suffice it to say it was a joint collaboration.

    Fact #3 - The Tangent Theta scopes are not simply re-branded Premier's. They had commissioned Optronika with their own list of features prior to acquiring Premier, and have their own patented features which did not come from Optronika or Premier. This is a very important fact. When TT/ATI discovered that Premier was insolvent, they decided to buy Premier. Then they essentially scrapped everything that was bad with Premier's products, kept the good, and incorporated them into the new Tangent Theta Professional Marksman series. The turrets, clickers, parallax, illumination, and main tube have been completely redesigned. The optical assembly (lensing) has been tweaked slightly. More on this later.

    Fact #4 - Premier Reticles is history. That means completely, and likely for all eternity. The way they did business, the attitude they had, and the products they shipped, all of it has been addressed or is currently being addressed by Tangent Theta. This does not mean owners of Premier scopes are going to be left out in the cold. Tangent Theta will warranty every single Premier product as if it were a TT product. This means if your Premier scope fails, you can get it fixed via Tangent Theta as if it were theirs. That means they will service anything with the Premier name on it, regardless of when or where it was purchased.

    Fact #5 - Andrew Webber didn't just wake up one day a few years ago and say "Hey, I think I'll start an optics company." No sir. Virtually every single employee at Tangent Theta has a long history in shooting. Mr. Webber is heavily tied into the shooting sports industry in Canada and routinely competes in various competitions all over the world. They absolutely love shooting, and the people within the shooting community.

    That pretty much covers the back-story leading up to the present."


    I would have preordered one for all my rifles if I could afford it...
    - Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD (.308 WIN)
    - Savage Model 11 (.270 WSM)
    - Remington 760 Gamemaster (.243 WIN)
    - Winchester Model 9422M (.22 Win Mag)
    - Marlin Glenfield Model 20 (.22 S-L-LR)
    - Marlin Glenfield Model 60 (.22 LR)
    - Remington 870 Express Magnum (12 ga.)
    - Winchester Ranger Model 120 (20 ga.)
    - Ithaca M-66 SuperSingle (.410 ga.)
    - Ultra-Hi by Miroku of Japan (.45 BP)

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