This is a discussion on M40A1 reproduction within the Rifles forums, part of the Sniping Related category; I am on the waiting list for an M40A1 stock, I am #80. Lets hope they get over 80!!! In my opinion, I think the ...
I am on the waiting list for an M40A1 stock, I am #80. Lets hope they get over 80!!! In my opinion, I think the M40A1 is the best sniper rifle to be made.
Mt M40A1 originally had a new production McMillan M40A1 stock with the modified Winchester floorplate exactly like on a issue gun (mods performed by Eric, the 2112 that works at GAP). When the USMC stocks became available and I found GAP had a few smear patterned stocks George was kind enough to sell me a stock and bed it to my exisiting rifle. He secured several stocks for new builds which he is doing a batch right now (he batches the clip slotting as it takes alot of set-up time and ties up his machines while they actions are getting done). In my opinion George is very reasonable for the work he performs and judging from my experiences his rifles perform as well.
The Unert'ls and USO MST-100's are $2500 new. An original USMC Unertl is $4000 to $6000 and most likely stolen property (very few were released to the public). The only difference is the writing on the side of the scope all else is original for the Unertls.
The USO made a few modifications but they were the repair center for the Unertls and provided some scopes to the USMC so would be considered issed scopes. If I were to do it all over I would go with a USO MST-100 and would have an all original replica as opposed to one with a Unertl replica scope (awfully darned close though).
All else being equal I would look hard at the M40A3's as they have a much more user friendly scope platform (scope, base and rings), and a more robust trigger/floorplate assembly. I like the old M40A1 stock better though as the A4 stock seems to be less user friendly IMHO.
After I win the lottery (guess I have to buy a ticket first though) I would like to get GAP to build me a M40A3 as well. Currently a civilian can get close to the new current issues scope (the elevation turret turns the "wrong" direction, clockwise instead of counter clock wise I believe) which is a Schmidt and Bender 3-12x50 with a double turn elevation tower and Premier Reticles FFP Gen II reticle. I believe all other parts are available to the general public.
I believe they are using the old USMC turn in floor plates and trigger guards. There was a thread on SH where people listed their stock, BM, and TG serial numbers (not all matched) and people would mail their BM and TG to somebody who had theirs. Somebody correct me on this if i am wrong though.
This is something that should NOT be overlooked.
Originally Posted by LSUfreak25
Your wait time may be longer, but do you want a rifle that is put together in a hurry and a possible chance of a response to your email (or a call from a secretary if you are lucky), or someone who will answer all your questions ASAP, and do everythign they need to to make you 100% satisfied.
Customer service/trust to me is the most important thing. If you cannot trust your smith (or he doesn't return your calls/reply to your emails)...why would you trust him with something so important to you.
I'll tell you what, there is 1 sure way of solving this dilema. Call each builder/smith, present them with the same situation/build, and see how each handles it, and how each presents themselves and their company to you. I guarentee after doing this you will at least have narrowed down your search.
As to the quality of TBA, from talking to the guys at TacOps, they have the upmost respect for the guys over at TBA and say they do kick *** work.
And to boot....TBA will also GUARANTEE 1/4MOA! :shock:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
WHAT? SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! I thought TacOps was the only one who used that deceptive marketing ploy! We all know that a 1/4 MOA guarantee is BS!!! :roll:
Originally Posted by APK
i read that somewhere as well :lol:
Originally Posted by lonewolf
APK THAT was a swing and a miss. The main reason for dumping the TBA was the 6 months with no reply to e-mail or phone calls for a quality issue with a rifle. GAP has been very prompt and bent over backwards to help. It has only been recently that you get Tracy rather than George on the phone but I have always gotten a response from George (it has taken a week or two on occassion but the guy does deserve a vacation or to go to SHOT doesn't he???). My experience with Mike was 5 years ago and that MAY have changed....hopefully it has for the better. At the time LEO's were wondering if Mike had stiffed them for their rifles and they had priority (as they should).
I have not tried TacOps but they sound as if they offer great service as well. As far a 1/4" guarantee....GAP may not offer it he just builds sticks that shoot and stands behind them...no guarantee required. That has been my experience. From my experience (and I have several of his guns) they all have beaten the 1/4" mark easily. But there are several makers that do that...some come with a written guarantee others just meet the standard every time.
As far a slapping the rifle together...if you have stocks and barrels in stock it only takes 4 or 5 days to build a gun. Most of the wait time is on the parts delivery (ask McMillan what their lead time is but they do meet or beat their quoted leadtimes, asl Schnieder, Rock, Hart, Obermyer etc what their leadtime is etc etc) A number of gunsmiths are at the mercy of their vendors. GAP just stocks a number of the common parts so he can turn out a stick faster than most....simple buisness practices. I ordered and odd ball barrel and stock...took 8 months (one month shy of the quoted leadtime). My personal experieince yours may vary. BTW when I called to find out when my restocking of my M40A1 was going to be complete....it was being delivered that day...weeks faster than I figured. That was two months ago, so recent experience.
Thanks to everyone for all your responses, you have been very helpful.
After referral i looked into the GAP rifles and really liked what i saw and have sent a lot of questions to George and got a lot of responses in the last couple days. One thing i haven't been able to figure out is the difference between his rifles on his web site (like "the rock" and the "base tactical rifle") and the reproduction M40A1's you guys are talking about. In fact, i can't find any information on his reproductions at all. What is the difference between them and say "the rock", what is the price for his M40A1 reproductions?
I want a good long range rifle, and like the "style" of the M40A1, but the rifle i get doesn't have to be an exact replica. As of right now i am leaning towards a GAP rock in .308 with a 8.5-25 Leupold MK4 scope...any comments? What is the benefit of the 22" fluted barrel offered on the rock as opposed to the 24" full barrel i have seen on oher rifles?
Well Andy I'll post it again as you must have missed it in my earlier post so that you can see the specs of the M40A1 reproductions
Originally Posted by aw25833
http://www.snipershide.com/ubb/ultimate ... 033#000000
Go there and it's the post George put on the Hide with the info. Compare them to the Rock. The Rock is built with different parts like the Badger bottom metal and mount/rings and a shorter barrel. Same stock and Rem 700 action except the M40A1 will be clipslotted. 22" Rock barrel is plenty to get you to 1000 with match ammo. You just need to decide what you want as far as barrel length and parts. Having a true M40A1 reproduction with a true M40A1 stock would be an excellent choice as there are only so many actual M40A1 stocks and bottom metal sets out there. Price is about the same. If I had to make the choice I would go with the M40A1.
The Crusaders and Rocks etc are state of the art rifles utilizing the best materials available. The M40 series of rifles are using parts agreed upon by comittee. Using Badger trigger floorplate assemblies, Badger bases and rings (or equivalent makers products) and a McMillan A-5 stock gets you pretty much up along the top of the line in rifles (actually the Mcmillan stock is your decision as to which would fit your application best). TacOps, KMW, GAP etc all make great rifles that are not M40 series replicas but are referred to as clones (do you need your mag box tig welded to the action and other small stuff that really does not add to the accuracy of the rifle but may add to the durability....but are you planning on dragging your rifle though the desert while someone is shooting at you and then need to make that shot at 893 yards or someone dies?) Some compromises are in order but still gets you the best 'shooting" rifle available just maybe not the most durable.
The Unertl/MST-100 scope suck in comparison to current scopes (USO, Leupold, S&B NF) To sight them in you have to use an allen wrench which moves the reticle but uses friction not clicks to get you on target. It took forever to get sighted in at 200 yards as it was difficult to move it "just a hair" to get it centered on target not to mention getting it real close then turning the wrong direction :roll: ....then with the USMC M40A1 mount you can not remove the scope with out removing from the rings. Other scopes and mounts are much more user friendly but once the M40A1 is sighted in and running it sure shoots well. The Unertl finish is not as durable as the new scope and they tend to rust. A variable power scope is much more user friendly than a fixed 10 as well (for close shots you can zoom out etc.) All that said my M40A1 will be one of the last rifles to leave my posession.....it's the tradition as well as it just fits well.
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