.22 lr barrel length and performance

This is a discussion on .22 lr barrel length and performance within the Rimfire forums, part of the Sniping Related category; I am shopping for a .22 trainer to shoot out to around 300 yards. I am considering the Savage MK II and the CZ 452 ...

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Thread: .22 lr barrel length and performance

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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    .22 lr barrel length and performance

    I am shopping for a .22 trainer to shoot out to around 300 yards. I am considering the Savage MK II and the CZ 452 or 455 varmint. Whatever I get I will probably put it in a better stock (unless I get the CZ in the manners). I have a TBAC 22L-1 on the way, so I either want a threaded barrel or will have it threaded if I go with the CZ.

    Savage makes the TRR-SR which is threaded and 22" barrel in a wood stock. They also make the FV-SR with is a 16 1/2" barrel. My other options is to just by a standard barrel savage or CZ and have it threaded. I am leaning toward this so that I am confident with the threads and so that I can choose the barrel length that I want.

    My question is: what will the velocity difference be between 16 and 22" barrles? I assume the shorter barrel will be stiffer and therefore more accurate, but then I also assume that it will take a toll on velocity. Most match grade ammo for .22 starts subsonic anyway, so how much will the shorter barrel affect by ability to shoot longer distances?
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    .22LR velocity reaches peak at 16-17 inches, and is slowed by barrels longer than this length.

    Whichever rifle platform you go with, if you have it threaded at 1/2" nominal, you really REALLY ought to have the crown back-bored to a depth behind the reduction of barrel diameter for the threads.

    That's REALLY important with the .22LR. Turning down a ~0.900" barrel to 1/2" nom OD will enlarge the bore at the section you turned. Lead bullets, once sized down, do not re-expand to fill the grooves in a looser part of the barrel. So if your muzzle is "belled" out because you turned it down, well...that can't be good for accuracy. The muzzle needs--HAS to be--the tighest part of the bore of an accurate .22LR.

    Don't let your gunsmith talk you out of it...If he/she won't do it, it's probably because they don't have the experience and/or a boring bar to do it, and that's no excuse. Maybe don't phrase your rerquest quite this way, but if they can't/won't do it, then find another 'smith.

    Course, 1/2" threads don't allow a lot of space for backboring in the middle while maintaining strength, now do they?

    S'pose all this is why Volquartsen uses a proprietary 13/16" thread pattern on their heavy barrels?

    :wink:

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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    how does back bore work? Is that like reaming out the bore to say .25 to a point before the threads? does it need to be crowned inside the back bore? If it is back bored, will it affect accuracy?

    If I have this done, I will probably test groups before threading and after. I will have it threaded long enough that I can cut and crown if I don't like it. I am not willing to sacrifice accuracy to be suppressed, but it would be really handy. i live in the county, but my neighbors would throw a fit if I shot in the back yard. I can get about 125 yards that I will shoot daily if I can get it suppressed. Otherwise I am limited to about once a week.
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    Quote Originally Posted by ddd oo7
    how does back bore work? Is that like reaming out the bore to say .25 to a point before the threads? does it need to be crowned inside the back bore? If it is back bored, will it affect accuracy?
    It's kinda more one-in-the-same thing. The back bore is just a given diameter, parallel-sided counterbore indicated to be true with the bore of the barrel. The crown down in the bottom of that counterbore can be a 90* with no chamfer, as it is VERY well protected by 3/4" or so of barrel in front. Inspecting such a corwn for damage is pretty tough to do, but then again, it's pretty tough to screw one up.



    From the sounds of it (hehehehe...get it..."sounnnds" of it... :P )...

    ...anyway...


    It sounds like a good reason to pursue suppression. More rounds per week in practice, or even just plinking, is a GREAT reason for lots of things.

    To look at peak accuracy from the rimfire .22, as with most things, we are best to look at benchresters. All truly competitive rimfire BR guys right now are running tuners from 4-12 ounces on the fronts of their barrels. What this weight projected PAST the muzzle does is enables them to move the first node of the primary vibration mode to the muzzle. Said another way, by projecting that weight beyond the crown, you are "tricking" the barrel into thinking it is longer than it really is.

    Practically speaking, by moving the node of vibration to the muzzle, you cause rounds of varied velocity (and ALL .22LR is varied) to all exit the bore at much closer to the same point and angle of departure. This reduces and/or eliminates vertical dispersion on target, the main culprit of lack of accuracy in a .22LR.

    And to use a Zediker-ism: Smaller groups is mo' better.

    Since you (and I) are not too interested in tuner usage, but don't mind some more accuracy (especially if it can be had for "free"), ONE way to accomplish this is by hanging a 4-8 oz suppressor out there. It's not adjustable, but it (+ the weight of the threaded barrel PAST the backbored crown) provides the same weight projection past the end of the bore as a tuner.

    Does this make any sense? TO a point, more weight beyond the crown of a normal .22 "bull" barrel will tend make it shoot better by helping to reduce vertical dispersion on target.

    -Nate

    PS: something else: Savage barrels are button rifled, and Czeska barrels are hammer forged. Both of these processes are prone to bore enlargement if heavy countouring is done after final bore dimensions have been reached....and ~0.900 down to ~0.500 is certainly a lot of material.
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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    That is interesting. I have heard of barrel tuners, but didn't know how they worked or what they were. What you are saying makes sense.

    I have not found a "good" smith in this area. There is a benchrest smith about 100 miles from here that came highly recommended from the benchrest crowd, but I doubt he has much experience with muzzle threading. I will probably end up shipping the gun to a smith to get this done. Do you have one that you would recommend? Will it be better if they have the suppressor in hand?

    Also, on a side note-- I looked at Anschutz rifles as well, but they are a little out of my price range right now. do you have pictures of yours posted on the forums? What model is it?

    Someday-- after I build a custom .260, I would like to put together a custom .22 as well. I am very interested in BlackOps precision's action that they are supposed to be releasing soon. It is a r-700 footprint in a repeater. the mags are for .22, but fit into a standards AICS magwell. I would love to put one of those together with a lilja barrel in an AICS to match the .260 I want to build eventually. Until then-- I will live with a MKII or CZ.
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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    Well, I'd recommend Bill Calfee, but I've never used him...I just know that HE knows more about .22LR accuracy and smithing than most people in the world. If you try to look him up, be aware that he is best reached by a letter in the mail, or by a fax to (812) 967-2413. And btw: Calfee is NOT one for trifling...I don't even know what his rate or date would be for that, he has no website, and he's also one of the most in-demand rimfire smiths in the country and/or world. Really nice guy, if you ever get to talk to him, but I'd not hope for that.

    http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... gunsmiths/

    What I'd recommend right now is to take a look at the list above, select one of the BR guys close to you, and give them a call. Really, muzzle threading is not any different than threading the shank of a barrel prior to chambering a CF rifle...and anybody better be able to do that operation.

    The trick is in making REALLY double sure you indicated the bore well-and-true. Not getting this step right will result in threads cut off-axis, and that results in baffle strikes and destroyed suppressors.

    A smith I've had good luck with, but who is not on that list, is AJ Brown in Indiana. Website's not flashy, but AJ spent some time at Crane NSWC, and knows his stuff.

    http://www.ajbrownarms.com/index.html

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    Senior Member ddd oo7's Avatar
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    Re: .22 lr barrel length and performance

    Thanks for the info. I will see if I can get in touch with one of those guys. I would rather have it done right the first time than to deal with someone local and need to have it done again or mess up the suppressor. Besides that, I have a long wait ahead of me for the suppressor anyway.
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    had a play at the range today with my 10/22. i am on good terms with the dealer/gunsmith that operates the range and he let me switch out a few barrels with some 10/22s he had in stock (used) and have a play with his chronograph. the same box of cci subs were used exclisivly and an average fps was taken from 5 rounds. all groups are also 5 rounds of cci subs at 55yds. where i have put +mod a .22 sakmod was fitted.
    22 inch standard stainless barrel +mod - 957fps .25 inch group.
    20 inch standard barrel +mod - 964fps .5 inch group.
    18.5 inch standard carbine barrel +mod - 973fps .5 inch group.
    16.12 inch standard compact barrel +mod - 986fps .5 inch group.
    14 inch Volquartsen fancy carbon fibre barrel - 1008fps .2 inch group.
    12.25 inch cut down standard stainless barrel (my barrel) +mod 1002fps .25 inch group.

    hope this info helps. i know it would be more usefull if it was the same barrel cut down a bit at a time. i am also confident that if i had used ammo with a higher powder charge the results would have been different.
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    forgot to mention we also tried my sons savage mk11, heavy 16.5 inch barrel, bolt action and that averaged 1015fps. accuracy wise its in another class than the ruger, at 55yds if you take your time you can nearly put 5 rounds through the same hole.

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