1911 extractor

This is a discussion on 1911 extractor within the Sidearms / Shotguns forums, part of the Sniping Related category; Listen up; pay attention because it is not every day that you get free advice from a genius. The 1911 pistol has a few perculiarities ...

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Thread: 1911 extractor

  1. #1
    Senior Member FluffyTheCat's Avatar
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    1911 extractor

    Listen up; pay attention because it is not every day that you get free advice from a genius.

    The 1911 pistol has a few perculiarities that you need to understand. The 1911 extractor was designed to act as one long spring. It was designed to be made of one single piece of spring steel. As far as I can tell only two other semi auto pistols use similar extractors made of spring steel. And these pistols are the Lahti L-35 and the early Browning Hi Power.

    I often wonder how the internal spring-steel 1911 extractor came about. But being a genius, I think I know why and how Browning designed the 1911 that way. Take a look at a 98 Mauser. The 98 Mauser has a long extractor made of spring steel. Now the 98 Mauser extractor turns on collar and this turning action means that it was not possible to get spring tension from an external coil spring. Mauser had to design his controlled feed extractor to act as its own spring.

    Now Mauser's controlled feed extractor was a brilliant innovation back in the 1890s. And I think Browning took note and decided to have something similar in the 1911 pistol. Now the 1911 is not really a true controlled feed weapon; however the piece is designed to feed from the magazine. You are not supposed to close a 1911 slide onto a chambered cartridge. If you do so, you risk damaging the extractor. And if you close the slide onto a chambered round on an early Browning Hi Power, you will almost certainly break the extractor.

    Now unfortunately, there are not very many good 1911 extractors around today. Too many 1911 extractors are made of schmoed-out MiM. These extractors are doomed and in less than 1000 rounds, MiM extractors will break or lose tension. They simply cannot work properly because they are made of the wrong materials. Now Wilson Combat and Ed Brown make steel extractors that work quite well. These extractors are made of quality steel and they provide good service. But the Wilson and Ed Brown extractors are not made of spring steel and as such they will eventually wear or lose proper tension.

    Now we learned the hard way about extractors. The DBAS-1911 started to malfunction and it turned into a disgusting schmoe-amatic. But we obtained a Cylinder and Slide extractor which is made of the exact type of spring steel that was originally specified for the 1911. The Cylinder and Slide extractor is made on CNC equipment and you do not need to file or machine the extractor claw.

    Squinty installed the Cylinder and Slide extractor on the DBAS slide and now the pistol works flawlessly. He tested the piece at the range and it spits out brass in rapid fire. When you install a 1911 extractor, you simply use a ball point pen to press the firing pin forward. And while you press the firing pin forward, carefully push the firing pin stop downward. Be careful because you do not want the firing pin spring to fire the firing pin at your eyes. Be careful and don't be a schmoe.

    After the firing pin stop is removed, remove the firing pin spring and firing pin. Then use your ball point pen to gently push the nose of the extractor. The extractor will move and you can then remove it from the rear of the slide.

    Slide the Cylinder and Slide extractor into your slide and then replace the firing pin, firing pin spring and slide stop. Take a live cartridge and place it with the rim under the extractor. Take the slide and turn it around. If the extractor holds the cartridge firmly in place, then you have proper extractor tension.

    Our extractor did not need to be adjusted. It held the cartridge firmly in place and thus we went to the range to test fire the pistol. The new extractor worked perfectly and I could not be more gruntled.

    Some slide and extractor combinations may require that the extractor be adjusted. To adjust the tension on a 1911 internal extractor, you need to bend the extrator. To properly bend the extractor, it is best that you use something called a Weigand 1911 extractor tool. This tool is available from Brownells. This tool allows one to gently and firmly bend the entire length of an extractor. To use this tool, one would slowly bend the extractor incremently. You would bend the extractor until it holds the cartridge in place during the slide test.You do not want too much tension. Too much tension can cause the extractor to break.

    For more information on the Weigand tool, read this:

    http://www.jackweigand.com/eat.html

    In summary:

    1. If you have a 1911, install the Cylinder and Slide extractor. ( Or use a Norinco extractor if you can find one. Norinco extractors are also made of spring steel.)

    2. Install the Cylinder and Slide extractor and before doing anything to it, perform the slide test. It may be that your extractor does not need bending.Install your barrel in your slide and make sure that your barrel does not contact the extractor. If it does, you will damage your extractor when you fire the gun.

    3. Do not file, sand, or machine the extractor. C&S machines the extractor claw perfectly.

    4. If your extractor needs more tension, get a Weigand tool and slowly adjust the extractor incrementally.

    Finally, test fire the gun. Once you have the extractor functioning properly, order another C&S extractor as a spare. Then fit the spare extractor to your slide. That way, you have a spare extractor in your spare parts kit ready to go. The C&S extractor is guaranteed for life and you may never need a spare.

    Finally, never drop your 1911's slide on a chambered round!!

    Listen to me and don't be a schmoe.


    Fluffy
    I'm a genius. And you are not.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator muzzleblast's Avatar
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    Fluffy speaks true. Sometimes it takes a little bit of playing around and jimmying the parts to get the extractor in there if someone hasn't done it before.

    And like she said, watch the eyes.
    I am dyslexia of Borg, futility is resistant, your &#* will be laminated.

    The People's Moderator!


  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzleblast
    Fluffy speaks true. Sometimes it takes a little bit of playing around and jimmying the parts to get the extractor in there if someone hasn't done it before.

    And like she said, watch the eyes.
    Like muzzle said watch the eyes i launched one somewear that i can't find.

    Tom

  4. #4
    Senior Member Scrambles's Avatar
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    So a a week ago I found a norinco. The previous owner really screwed up a lot of the parts on it, including the extractor. He must have closed his slide on chambered round, otherwise the norinco spring steel would be in spec.

    At my 1911s first trip to the range, we went through 100 rounds, with 3 failures to eject and a very erratic ejection pattern. I got home and read this post.

    Anyway, on to the photos.

    A before shot:


    Tuning (This is my homemade Weigand tool - a table vise, on its side, with taped cleaning patches over some bolts to protect my extractor. I tuned it by VERY SLOWLY bending the extractor, marking the increment I tensioned the vise, and checking the fit. If you go slow and think about what you are doing it's not difficult.)


    After tuning:


    I went back to the range and fired 50 more rounds. All the brass ejected perfectly, in a nice, uniform pattern. I'll still be installing a C&S extended ejector this week, just to cover my bases.

    Later this week I'll be posting pics and a write up of my deschmoed Norinco. It's really going to be something. Stay tuned, and listen to The Cat.

    -Scrambles

  5. #5
    Senior Member Scrambles's Avatar
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    One more thing...

    I forgot to say, that before I did anything, I read this:

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1026 ... Adjustment

    Some good information to compliment what Fluffy posted.

  6. #6
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    Guys no doubt CxS makes great extractors but just something wrong with betting life on the Norinco extractor. Too cheap to buy something you know is properly heat treated like CxS.

  7. #7
    Senior Member FluffyTheCat's Avatar
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    The Chinese build good extractors. One of ours has worked flawlessly for 4000 rounds.

    Nonetheless, I just LOVE the Cylinder and Slide extractor. Ours came with an inspection card. It was signed by the inspector and it was tested at 50 on the Rockwell C hardness scale.

    Fluffy.
    I'm a genius. And you are not.

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