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WTB: Remington 700 in .243 Win.

5K views 19 replies 5 participants last post by  GMinor 
#1 ·


Hello, All

This is my first post, but I found snipercentral about a year ago and have been reading VOLUMINOUSLY here since.
{And THANKS to all here for making it such a great site, and advancing my knowledge so!}

I am an old geezer, shooting [almost] everything under the sun for over half a century :rolleyes:
But I am currently making my initial foray into the world of long range shooting.

I'm pursuing several avenues simultaneously, but today I'm asking after a:

Remington 700 in .243 Win.

I'm well aware of being "wet behind the ears", so y'all do your best with these comments (learn me if you care to):
- a "complete" rifle would do, but a barreled action would do equally well
- I like stainless steel! Is there a .243 in stainless? As a 5R?

Prefer a PM over a thread post, I'll get it MUCH quicker!

Thanks,

JamesD

P.S. Anybody from GEORGIA out there with one of these we could do a FTF on would really get my attention!

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#2 · (Edited)
You can find the Rem 700 Varmint in .243, but you won't find it with 5R rifling. You might want to have a look at what Mel can put together for you. Just be aware that if you want to use this with VLD bullets, you are probably going to have to go to a custom shop and get a 1:8 or faster twist.

But to be thorough, how about some more about you and what your shooting experience is and what kind of shooting you want to do. What kind of range and target?

And why .243? It's a great caliber but barrel life can be a bit short.
 
#3 ·
Well, what a nice post Sergeant.

OK... I'm 65, shot all sorts of equipment over a half a century.
Woke up one day recently and realized that I was handgun rich but rifle poor, and have set out to remedy that.

First, I got a Winchester 94 from the 40's, its birthdate +/- a year or two of mine.
Just because everybody should have a Winchester 94 shouldn't they? And a nice brush and small game rifle if needed, etc.

Then I got to thinking after something more heavy duty and/or long range.

A friend has an older blued and wood 700 in .30-06 that we're going to work something out on.
I shot it once and put three rounds through the same hole in the paper so it seems like it might be a pretty good rifle.
I might leave it as is, or maybe put it in a new stock? With a new trigger?
Haven't gotten that far yet.
But what I do know is that I don't have near the chest and shoulder muscle that I once had.
And the .30-06 won't be a "fun" rifle for me to put a lot of rounds through.

So... I started thinking about a .243.
I studied the ballistics over on the main snipercentral page.
And bullet drop and wind stability look really good.
And I belong to a gun club that has a 600 yd. range, and thought that the .243 might be fun to see what I could accomplish at 600 yards.
And maybe put a lot of rounds downrange without being sore the next day.

Something like all of that anyway.

Whatcha think?
Was that "too much information"?

Anyway, that's my story.

And... any comments, advice more than welcome.
The whole idea of long range shooting is something that I'm still working my way into.
I've been reading and reading for months and months, but all on paper so far.
Open to ideas, suggestions, comments.

James

P.S. You have any idea what an "older" Remington 700, .30-06, as stock from factory, maybe from the '60s? '70s? would be worth.
I would call it in "excellent" mechanical condition, action/bore, but only "decent" cosmetically, wood dinged up a bit, some rust/corrosion on the barrel blueing.
My friend is going to try to find out if his son knows, of get me a s/n to figure out the date, but unsure at present.
Just need to, at some point, establish what a fair price or trade value on it would be.
 
#4 ·
SOME Remingtons have a little bit of collectors value, and the older one's are a nicer receiver in some ways..better finishes, better attention to detail, a few even had engraved numbers and lettering instead of the trash roll-marks of today. I think the bolt shrouds were more elegant, and the checkering on the bolt handle used to be real, mechanically cut checkering instead of molted/stamped as it is now... Triggers on the old ones were much better, and often adjusted well from the factory.

All that said, still probably not more than a $500 rifle.

If it were a Winchester 70, we'd have more to discuss, but Remington is pretty straightforward across the board.

-Nate

PS: after dinner, I'll post some more about the .243 and range use, and what an awesome cartridge I think it can be in the right hands.
 
#5 ·
SOME Remingtons have a little bit of collectors value, and the older one's are a nicer receiver in some ways..better finishes, better attention to detail, a few even had engraved numbers and lettering instead of the trash roll-marks of today. I think the bolt shrouds were more elegant, and the checkering on the bolt handle used to be real, mechanically cut checkering instead of molted/stamped as it is now... Triggers on the old ones were much better, and often adjusted well from the factory.

All that said, still probably not more than a $500 rifle.

If it were a Winchester 70, we'd have more to discuss [yeah, I think I've heard a little drift on that; "pre '64" is the mantra on the Model 94s, does that apply to the Model 70 as well?],
but Remington is pretty straightforward across the board.

-Nate

PS: after dinner, I'll post some more about the .243 and range use, and what an awesome cartridge I think it can be in the right hands. SUPER!
Well Nate!...

First the Sarge with his nice reply, and now you!

Yep, I've been reading and reading here for months and really liked the place, but start posting on the forum and it's even better! :)

Standing by,

James
 
#6 ·
I think that the .243 Winchester is a cartridge for the ages.

Positives it exhibits:

--enough boiler room to push 117 grain projectiles well past a klick;
--enough of the same to push 50-60 grain bullets to just UNHOLY speeds;
--enough accuracy to have won, at least once, a national title in every modern rifle competition in this country, and several other nations to boot;
--enough power to kill any animal on this continent (and really anything but the largest African game) with an intelligently selected and carefully placed bullet;
--low enough recoil and blast as to make it shootable to nearly anyone who would ever choose to try;
--excellent history and knowledge base on trajectories and loads for the handloader, along with excellent component availability and selection;
--exceptional availability and versatility of loaded rounds if you don't load yourself;
--factory rifles to suit nearly every task for which the cartiridge can be used.

The main negative is, of course, a result of burning a lot of powder in not very much space: barrel life. Typically, match-grade cut rifled barrels will start to lose some of their razor-edge accuracy at 800-1,000 rounds, and will likely have died pitifully in your arms before 1,200.

It's like a hot saw that way: hellacious performance, but it burns a lot of gas to get there.

If you hear mixed opinions about this last, it is because of mixed crowds discussing the topic: most deer hunter types only shoot a box of shells a year, and clean once, and find that their rifle shoots "just and good now as it did when I's a boy", or something to that effect.

Contrast the Highpower or Silhouette shooter who is running 2,000-3,000+ rounds a year down range, with national competions toward the 75% portion of a summer season, and you can see why the need to change a whole darn barrel 2 weeks before Nationals might get to be a real problem.


Way I see it, if you were born right at the end of The War, and you spent your boyhood in the '50s, then you remember what that time of life in America was all about. With that in mind, I get a little nostalgic...

I cannot think of a nicer rifle to own than a Pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 Supergrade, chambered in .243 Winchester. Such a rifle is as solid a representation of the height of American Firearms as you could possibly ask for, so if you have the dollars and the inclination, there is no nicer rifle for a man of your age to own and carry.

That's all I have to say about that.

If you must go modern, then don't pass up a look at Sako's offerings. They are elegant rifles built to near the American "custom market" standards, and shoot about the same...which is to say "circles around" most things from Remington or the modern Winchester Repeating Arms.

-Nate
 
#7 ·
.

Nate - OK... I'm going to answer within your post in red.

I think that the .243 Winchester is a cartridge for the ages.

Positives it exhibits:

--enough boiler room to push 117 grain projectiles well past a klick;
--enough of the same to push 50-60 grain bullets to just UNHOLY speeds;
--enough accuracy to have won, at least once, a national title in every modern rifle competition in this country, and several other nations to boot;
--enough power to kill any animal on this continent (and really anything but the largest African game) with an intelligently selected and carefully placed bullet;
--low enough recoil and blast as to make it shootable to nearly anyone who would ever choose to try;
--excellent history and knowledge base on trajectories and loads for the handloader, along with excellent component availability and selection;
--exceptional availability and versatility of loaded rounds if you don't load yourself;
--factory rifles to suit nearly every task for which the cartiridge can be used.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
above this line I basically understood, from assessing various sources but especially from the snipercentral snipingammo pages :)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The main negative is, of course, a result of burning a lot of powder in not very much space: barrel life. Typically, match-grade cut rifled barrels will start to lose some of their razor-edge accuracy at 800-1,000 rounds, and will likely have died pitifully in your arms before 1,200.

It's like a hot saw that way: hellacious performance, but it burns a lot of gas to get there.

If you hear mixed opinions about this last, it is because of mixed crowds discussing the topic: most deer hunter types only shoot a box of shells a year, and clean once, and find that their rifle shoots "just and good now as it did when I's a boy", or something to that effect.

Contrast the Highpower or Silhouette shooter who is running 2,000-3,000+ rounds a year down range, with national competions toward the 75% portion of a summer season, and you can see why the need to change a whole darn barrel 2 weeks before Nationals might get to be a real problem.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
the next section, down to here, I had some general sense of but nowhere near as clearly expressed as you have put it here
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Way I see it, if you were born right at the end of The War [yes, Army Air Corps father, came out at the end of the war, built a house, raised a family], and you spent your boyhood in the '50s [yep], then you remember what that time of life in America was all about [oh, yes]. With that in mind, I get a little nostalgic...

I cannot think of a nicer rifle to own than a Pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 Supergrade, chambered in .243 Winchester. Such a rifle is as solid a representation of the height of American Firearms as you could possibly ask for, so if you have the dollars and the inclination, there is no nicer rifle for a man of your age to own and carry.

That's all I have to say about that. [and all I have to say is "I've been moving in a certain general direction, but you have CRYSTALIZED it for me. One more Rifle Bucket List item added. One more search begun. Thanks! ]

If you must go modern, then don't pass up a look at Sako's offerings. They are elegant rifles built to near the American "custom market" standards, and shoot about the same...which is to say "circles around" most things from Remington or the modern Winchester Repeating Arms. [well... not to supplant the above, but as a general recommendation... taken]

-Nate

Thank you sir!
.
 
#10 ·
IF you do want to go modern, then a Rem 700 in .260 might be worth a look. A little more recoil than a .243 but not so much as a .308 and excellent ballistics as well as longer barrel life.
 
#11 ·
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Thanks Sergeant!


Man, you guys put a guy through his paces.
So... I'm asking myself, "Did I overlook something?" "Why am I looking for something in .243 and not .260???"
Because I thought I had cyphered this all out pretty thoroughly!

But it's good to have a hard stone to sharpen your knife against.

So I went back through all my research documents, and "Ah-so, Grasshopper".
For right or wrong, this was my logic.

As I set out to rectify my "lack of rifles" status, and, in particular, trying to move into "long range shooting",
I decided that I had ONE, CLEAR, TOP PARAMETER, a SINE QUA NON, and that was...

I wanted this rifle, or these rifles (as I see that there must needs be several), to be chambered for UBIQUITOUS rounds.
I want to be able to walk down the street and just trip over ammunition for these rifles. (...well not literally, but you get my drift)
If times get hard and supply chains get fragile, I still want to be able to feed my rifles.
(plus it doesn't hurt that I think there's a bit of a corollary that: more ubiquitous = less expensive, and vice versa)

So, I started with .30-06 and .308
I mean this stuff is everywhere right? Military, sporting. Just piles of it stacked up on shelves and in closets across the country, don't you reckon?

And then, looking for something a little more "old-shoulder friendly" to compliment those first two,
I. s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d. a point and thought I'd get something in .243
It's not really just "everywhere" like the .30-06 and .308, but I. t-h-i-n-k. it is, and may continue to be, a reasonably prevalent round. (Yes? Comments?)

Whereas, even though I was really impressed with the .260 ballistically, it seemed both scarce and expen$ive on the marketplace.
And I think I had similar thoughts about the 7mm-08, fine round but a little scarce on the marketplace.

Oh, and P.S./btw... all this is through the eyes of a NON-bullet-loader-reloader, which maybe I should have mentioned earlier.


I appreciate the back and forth.
Every decision in this little endeavour of ours... well, I'll tangent over here and pay respects to my father with a favorite little witticism of his:

"As the monkey said when he peed on the cash register, 'This is going to run into some money.' "

So, every question, challenge, suggestion from you folks might potentially save me some money (from a not fully thought out, regretted decision).

So thanks, all.

JamesD

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#14 ·
James, but for your comment, you seem like a reading fellow.

I have a book I'd lke you to order:

"Handloading for Competition" by Glen Zediker

--if there were ever a book written to allow a Joe off the street to walk into a loading shop and safely work up accurate loads for his rifle, this is it. It is NOT a "recipe book" or load 'manual' such as those produced by all the component companies. Rather, it is a pictorial and verbose instructional tome on the most modern HOW's and WHY's of what we all do to make our rifles shoot to our potential, and sometimes even their own.
--your man may even learn a thing or two...or he may not....but a second opinion with small grenades in front of your face is not a bad thing, in my book.

You can order it from the 'man hisself' right here: Zediker Publishing

I've never even bought a "Load Manual," mostly because I don't need to do so, and I've never had reason to blame my ammo for a poor performance on my part.

I know how to listen to a rifle and give it what it wants...not just pound my head on a manual and wonder why I keep blowing primers. You should as well.

-Nate
 
#15 · (Edited)
James, but for your comment, you seem like a reading fellow.{A scholar I am.}

I have a book I'd lke you to order:

"Handloading for Competition" by Glen Zediker

--if there were ever a book written to allow a Joe off the street to walk into a loading shop and safely work up accurate loads for his rifle, this is it. It is NOT a "recipe book" or load 'manual' such as those produced by all the component companies. Rather, it is a pictorial{√} and verbose{√√} instructional tome{√√√} on the most modern HOW's and WHY's of what we all do to make our rifles shoot to our potential, and sometimes even their own.
--your man may even learn a thing or two...or he may not....but a second opinion with small grenades {eek!} in front of your face is not a bad thing, in my book. {Amen and Amen}

You can order it from the 'man hisself' right here: Zediker Publishing
{ Vidi, Acti, Perfici [with apologies to J. Caesar] }
{ i.e., "I saw, I clicked, I ordered." ...or sumthin' like that, and at 2 o'clock in the morning, ain't this world crazy! }

I've never even bought a "Load Manual," mostly because I don't need to do so, and I've never had reason to blame my ammo for a poor performance on my part.

I know how to listen to a rifle and give it what it wants...not just pound my head on a manual and wonder why I keep blowing primers. You should as well. {Sounds like a reach, but I'll get started on it.}

-Nate
James
 
#16 ·
.

Hey fellas, look what I found!

Model 700 in .243
Looks like one of these that just spent it's life in someone's safe.

Just got it, haven't had a chance to shoot it (note to Jim: 1-buy .243 ammo, 2-learn to reload)

Got a question about it:
The date code on the barrel says "XO" which decodes as EITHER December of 1977 or December of 1994.
Apparently the only way to know is to know when certain models came and went, or certain features changed, etc., or which decade it just LOOKS like it belongs to.
Short of holding a seance with the rifle, anybody know what aspects of this rifle would tell me when it was made?

And aside from this particular rifle, what about figuring out Remington date codes on rifle after rifle in general?
Is there a big Remington "bible" which tracks model and feature changes and such... like Doug Murray's great Savage book or the BIG S&W book by Supica and Nahas?

JamesD

P.S. the bore "looks" clean, shiny, and sharp edged; we'll see how she shoots directly ;)



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#19 · (Edited)
.

10-4 Thanks GMinor.
JamesD
P.S. One of my favorite keys!



Got to love the look of that rifle....They are so pretty. Dad has two (30.06 and 7mm Mag) Both dang pretty with the wood stocks.

Congrats!
Thanks Jason.
Nickel, hard chromed, stainless, camo, they can all be great.
But something about blued steel and wood, especially from the past, that seems to sit especially well with this old man.
Glad you enjoyed it.

Jamesd

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