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Bunch of Scope Questions

6K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  Martino1 
#1 ·
I'm planning on assembling a 308 rifle capable of shooting up to 500 yds and possibly taking it on a hunt here or there. I haven't locked in my gun choice yet and I am equally twisted on what scope to pair it with. The scopes I have in mind are:

Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15X50 FFP IR
Vortex[emoji768] Viper[emoji768] PST[emoji769] Gen II FFP 3-15x44

Which of these 2 would you recommend? Also, both of these scopes are available in MOA and MIL reticles. I've always had MOA scopes and while I understand that the calculations would be easier in MIL, I don't know how easy the switch would be. Should I go with an MOA or MIL scope?

Lastly, I intend on using Burris Extreme Tactical rings. Any idea on what height rings I'd need?

David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#2 ·
I won't be of much help here other than to wonder why you included the [emoji768] [emoji768] [emoji769] symbols... You probably don't need them from now on, unless for some reason you really like them, then feel free.

I don't have any experience with the Athlon scopes but I do have experience with the Vortex stuff and it's decent stuff. They also have a great warranty, but like I said, I can't compare to Athlon so I'm not much help.

One thing I can help with is that without knowing what rifle you're planning on going with, we may not be able to suggest a ring height. Some rifles have hand guards over the top of the barrels, or built in rails or other things that could affect how high the scope should be.

As far as MIL vs MOA, I think that most long range shooters chose MILs but either should be fine as long as you stick with it and learn it well.
Id compare it to using inches or using the metric system. Either are fine, just pick one and learn it well. If you're already very used to MOA, I'd stick with it. But if you're starting out new, I'd suggest MILs.
 
#3 ·
Sorry about all them symbols. I just copied and pasted the text from Cabelas and they must've come along for the ride. As for the gun, I don't know. I was seriously considering the Tikka T3X Hunter Stainless but there's 2 things that are bugging me about it. 1) Their customer service is like non-existent; there's nobody you can talk to regarding and 2) No retailer seems to have one in stock for me to fiddle with; I need a left hand rifle. My other options are: Savage 16/116 FCSS Weather Warrior or Ruger American Rifle Predator 6.5 CM - I'd rather have the 308 but this gun isn't available in left hand 308.

David
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yoda


I've seen a lefty shoot a RH bolt rifle better than any righty. He would shoot lefty, keep his left hand in place on the rifle's pistol grip and he worked the bolt with his right hand. Smoothest firing sequence I'd seen. Probably wouldn't work with a bulpup bolt action, but watching him fire I was almost jealous of being a righty.
 
#4 ·
X2 on what Scratch said. I don't have any experience with Anthlon as well. Whatever you pick, I'd recommend a First Focal
Plane scope.(FFP) That way the reticle indications, mil or MOA, will reflect consistent elevation increments regardless of magnification. Second Focal Plane scope reticles only reflect accurate gradations at only one magnification only usually at the higher end of the magnification range.

I'm a mil guy. Both of my Vortex scopes have EBR 2C MRAD reticles. Once you get used to them, you don't need to dial for elevation or wind out to about 800-900yds if you don't want to. The tree will let you hold out to 9-10 mils depending on the magnification you crank. With my 308 load, I only need a little over 3 mils elevation to get to 500yds. You can just use the tree for elevation and wind hold. Not cranking knobs unless you want to. Having the choice is nice.
 
#6 ·
I was looking at the Vortex for a while for my next build too but I think I might end up trying the Burris XTR II 5-25x50... You can find them online for just under 1k and based on what I have been reading, a lot of people are really liking them as much if not more than the Vortex. Great warranty as well.
 
#7 ·
... As far as MIL vs MOA, I think that most long range shooters chose MILs but either should be fine as long as you stick with it and learn it well.
Id compare it to using inches or using the metric system. Either are fine, just pick one and learn it well. If you're already very used to MOA, I'd stick with it. But if you're starting out new, I'd suggest MILs ...
As to the arithmetic, no difference between MOA and MILS. which is easier?

1.047 times 5

or

3.6 times 5

??

:)

==Ok
But I agree, more people using MIL ... so the choice comes down to which you like ... versus whether you will be shooting with others who use MOA or others who use MIL.

I use MIL, the people I shoot with use MIL.

==
I second the call to check out Burris xtr2 line ...

SCR-MIL reticle ...



Comes in 3-15x or 4-20x or 5-25x all street prices around $1,000


3-15x has more FOV at 3x so slight better for dual purpose hunting/long distance ... 15x on high power still reaches 1,000 ... and lighter and shorter.

If you are mostly target shooting, then 5-25x will get you out farther. The 5-25x scope longer and heavier, so less optimal for hunting.

I have one of each ! :)
 
#16 · (Edited)
I second the call to check out Burris xtr2 line ...
I have a buddy that has one and it has been awesome for him. With everything I have been reading lately about people having to send their Vortex back for warranty work, I decided not to run the risk of getting a bad one... Obviously every company will have their issues here and there but I think I will go with the Burris this time.

To OP. Keep in mind that this opinion is based only on what I have personally seen, heard, or read. MANY people absolutely love the Vortex stuff and have never had problems with them.
 
#8 ·
500 yards for a .308 is easy, it sounds like your wanting a hunting/target rifle. For target id go with a varmint contour, but to keep it a bit lighter for hunting you can do a 20" barrel. Drop at 500 yards should be around 12 moa +/- .5
As far as optics I have the 3-15x44 Gen 2 PST. Its a good scope (fyi its not the original, the original had a canted reticle, I called vortex and explained the issue and they sent me a prepaid return label, I was expecting them to fix the scope and they sent me a new one which has been issue free for over 100 rounds.)
The pictures are of my 20" 308 for reference as well as a a through the scope picture of a freeway light pole at 780 yards.


Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 
#13 ·
500 yards for a .308 is easy, it sounds like your wanting a hunting/target rifle. For target id go with a varmint contour, but to keep it a bit lighter for hunting you can do a 20" barrel. Drop at 500 yards should be around 12 moa +/- .5
As far as optics I have the 3-15x44 Gen 2 PST. Its a good scope (fyi its not the original, the original had a canted reticle, I called vortex and explained the issue and they sent me a prepaid return label, I was expecting them to fix the scope and they sent me a new one which has been issue free for over 100 rounds.)
The pictures are of my 20" 308 for reference as well as a a through the scope picture of a freeway light pole at 780 yards
Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
I'm looking at a mainly target gun, but one that is capable of doing double duty for hunting if I should ever go. I had a post some time back asking the forum for suggestions on it.
http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/rifles/72882-need-help-selecting-rifle.html

The resounding response was to go with a Tikka. But like I said in my original post here, there doesn't seem to be any nearby that I can hold and see if I like them, and their customer service is non-existent. So now I'm back up in the air for what to get.

That Vortex looks kind of nice but you mentioned having to send it back which is something that I've heard about Vortex. Their CS is great but is used a lot.

David
 
#9 ·
How is the zero-stop on the pst gen2 ? Is it tool-less ? Any issues?

The Burris xtr2 is not tool-less, requires allen wrench to loosen 2 set screws. But it is easy if you know how :) ... And I have not had any issues setting and resetting on any of my three xtr2 scopes.
 
#11 · (Edited)
It has a solid zero stop. Same RZR system as the gen 1 razor, it is not tool less. Still need an 2mm hex wrench. Illuminatin is good, unlike the gen 2 razor it only lights up the horizontal and verticle section, not the "skirt of the tree". It had an off position between each level.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
For some reason, on the Burris xtr2 line, the 4-20x is the only one that has a hold-over (tree) reticle, with the H591 being available, if someone was inclined towards a hold-over reticle.
(I have 2 scopes with hold-over reticles, the NF 7-35x and the L&S 3-18x M5C2 ... both with the tremor-3 ... the illumination on the T-3 includes the skeleton of the tree down to the 10 mil line and out to the skirts above the 10 mil line)

And as of recently, the 5-25x is also available in FDE.

I got my new NF 7-35x from CS Tactical and they can do any of the scopes they sell in FDE, that's how I got the NF in FDE.
 
#14 ·
Also, both of these scopes are available in MOA and MIL reticles. I've always had MOA scopes and while I understand that the calculations would be easier in MIL, I don't know how easy the switch would be. Should I go with an MOA or MIL scope?
My brain tends to prefer MILs over MOA... If you find it easier to work in fractions, then MOA might suit you best. If you are like me and find it easier to work in decimals, then MILs might be the way to go. Either way they are both solid options. They both have their own advantages. Most guys tend to go for MILs but lately I have seen a lot of guys using MOA too. Just depends on how your brain likes to do math haha!

Check these videos out. They might help you figure out what works best for you.

MILs :
This goes more into ranging techniques which can be an awesome tool to have. It should still give you a basic understanding though.

MOA :
I am currently in the middle of learning MOA and this helped me a lot.

Good luck!
 
#19 ·
Stop shooting lefty��. I am a lefty up until a few years ago I shot lefty my entire life. I am right eye dominate so when I started shooting a bow I needed to shoot righty, so I thought why not shoot rifles righty as well especially once I started shooting AR’s. Now I am completely ambidextrous with a rifle. You can change if you want just takes an open mind and practice.
 
#22 ·
Stop shooting lefty. I am a lefty up until a few years ago I shot lefty my entire life. I am right eye dominate so when I started shooting a bow I needed to shoot righty, so I thought why not shoot rifles righty as well especially once I started shooting AR’s. Now I am completely ambidextrous with a rifle. You can change if you want just takes an open mind and practice.
Uh no... This is not possible. I am right handed but am left eye dominant; I shoot bows, guns, and xbows lefty. And to boot, I can't close my left eye down. There's no way in heck I'm going to shoot righty. And if I'm paying money for a rifle, I want a left handed version; this is not negotiable.

David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
#21 · (Edited)
From what I remember the warranty returns were mostly PST Viper Gen 1. I don't recall a Vortex Razor Gen II or PST Viper Gen II's noted here as sent back. My Vortex Gen II's are running fine. My round count is down to about 600 this year because of my busy season. But I use mine. My Vortex Razor lasted 4000 rounds on my 700P 308 and is still going strong. That probably doesn't compare to you guys with back yard ranges but IMO the Vortex Gen II's seem solid. I'll defer to Orkan cause he tests out more scopes than I but. To date, I've got no complaints.
 
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