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Angus Arms MK-12 Mod 0/1 SPR clones

16K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  slowkota 
#1 ·
Does any one have any experiance or knowledge with the Angus Arms MK-12 Mod 0/1 SPR's? They claim "groups well under 1/2 MOA" with there MK-12 SPR clones. The upper assembly is $1450 less optics. Ive been trying to dig up reliable info on Angus Arms for a while but cant find anything. They appear to use all the same parts that SOCOM uses on there SPR's, other than that I cant find much more info on them.

www.angusarms.com
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the link, but their MK12 Mod 0 is more than the Angus Arms clone by $100 and it doesnt say what MOA it shoots, and doesnt have any info about it and has a really small blury picture. Just looking for some reliable info on the Angus Arms MK12 Mod 0 clone, if any one has ever shot one or knows some one who used one or owns one.
 
#4 ·
SPR Clones

If you email Angus Arms he will refer you to an article in one of the AR15 Annual Magazines (I think published by Guns & Ammo) which you might find informative and interesting. I would like to tell you that I have built several of these guns from the ground up, and there are several sources for barrels (White Oak, Compass Lake). The cost of building the rifle if you are not an FFL piece by piece is about $1800 to $2000.
 
#6 ·
G&A AR15 Annual Article

No I don't think so. But it's in the last G&A AR15 Annual magazine with the green cover and the AR15 on the front. His article is on how to build one is in it and it's in the back of the magazine. You can call him or email him, nice guy and answers all inquiries. His email address is on his website which the link I think has already been posted on thread.
 
#7 ·
Re: G&A AR15 Annual Article

MedCpt said:
Giving the amount of money to build one of these, and staying in the world of AR15 if that's what you want, I think for $1800-2000 there are more cost effective options for getting a 1 MOA 5.56 AR rifle.
Like buying most anything from Rock River, Bushmaster, Olympic, Colt, or darn near anyone.
 
#9 ·
My experiance with the AR15 has been this: just about every 20" and even most 16/14.5" AR's will shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA with ball ammo if the shooter does his or her part. So im pretty sure that the fully accurized SPR with some good match ammo will shoot better than that. Angus Arms claims under half minute groups with there SPR's.

I guess I'll just have to look up where to buy this AR15 annual magazine from and read the article about Angus Arms. Im just wondering about the company and its reputation, under half minute with an AR is one hell of a claim.
 
#10 ·
SPR Accuracy

I have it from a reliable source at Crane Naval Special Warfare that data on the first 300 guns they built shot just under 1 MOA. I don't know the ammo

As far as Angus Arms, don't know who's barrel he uses. I've built several and 1 MOA is just about right (using CLE barrels) using match ammo. Maybe Angus Arms can build a better and more accurate SPR.

You can also add about $1000 to whatever final SPR build for the actual Leupold Scope and ARMS #22 rings, so I figure you are looking at about $2800 for a newly built rifle ready to shoot.
 
#11 ·
Every AR15 out there that isnt beat to death and is made well should shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA with ball ammo, and nearly all do including carbines. Personally i think the so called "1 MOA limit" of semi auto rifles has more to do with the fact that when a semi auto is reloading the chamber with a fresh round, it slams it upwards into the chamber with alot of force, while the round is canted upwards traveling from the magazine upwards on the feed ramp into the chamber, and probably jars the bullet out of crimp and alignment when the bullet hits the top of the inside of the chamber. This is why the military MK262 Mod 1 77gr SMK was specialty made with a semi cannelured jacket. The Chinese sniper caliber 5.8x42mm uses cannelured fmjbt rounds as well for this reason.

As for the Crane MK12's, those were designed and most of them were made in the late 80's / early-mid 90's on surplus A1 lowers if i remember correctly. I wouldnt expect those to shoot to well, 1 MOA at best. In the past 10 years, quality control and manufacturing methods have gone leaps and bounds. The newer MK12 Mod 2 is suppose to be much more accurate, that was one of the main purposes SOCOM wanted a new updated version of the Mod 1 MK12.

The KAC MK-11 is capable of half to three quarter MOA. There was a sharpshooter with the FBI that shot a sub 1 inch group at 600 meters with the SR-25 several years back. There was a good article about that in several tactical magazines and a few websites too. The relatively new Armalite AR-10T "Super SASS" has been reviewed by numerous professional magazines and independant companies and reportedly shoots three quarter to one minute with several different loads, Remington 168 match loads being the best in several tests followed closely by Lapua 167's.

I found a review of the Angus Arms MK12 Mod 1 on guns and ammo's website. Well it wasnt so much a review of the rifle as it was a review of the ammo, however they did use the rifle in the test. They shot MK262 Mod 1 through it and acheived numerous sub three quarter minute groups with one messuring six tenths of an inch at 100 meters. Put that thing in a ransom rest and it should take out all the human error and shoot better. If a mass produced AR15 carbine can shoot 1 MOA with ball ammo i see no reason why a fully accurized SPR cant shoot better with match ammo.

As for my possible SPR build cost, im thinking about $3500 to $4000 total.
 
#12 ·
SPR's

Military ammo has cannelures to prevent bullet set-back. In bolt rifles, it is my understanding that bullets with cannelures are not generally used in their match ammo because cannelures may decrease the accuracy of the bullet. As far as semi-auto, while your theory would seem to make sense, althought I noticed in my testing absolutely no difference in multiple accuracy tests whether a round was hand fed one at a time. My experience has taught me sometimes in the field, theory and reality can be strangers. Again, I don't have any large mega-studies to cite, this was just my own personal experience as the same thing you mentioned had crossed my mind also.

You are correct about the A1 lowers, (mostly Colt, Diemco, and even a few Armalites) but lower receivers alone IMHO have little and or nothing to do with accuracy from all the articles I have read. Gene McMillian said it best about accuracy; Bullets, Bedding, & Barrel (not necessarily in that order and of course he was referring to bolt guns).

Ransom is known for their mechnical pistol rest and I understand it may be an industry standard for testing, haven't heard that much about the rifle rest they make. I do know the Lahti Mechanical Rest is used by many custom builders, and I bought it on the recommendation of reknowned sniper MAJ John Plaster, retired US Special Forces and author.

I would be interested in knowing more about the Mk12 Md 2 which you state is supposed to be more accurate if you have any info.

Regarding the review of the Angus Arms SPR, 3/4 MOA is respectable and my experience is a rack grade M16A2 is about 1.5 to 2 MOA so that's a big improvement.

What makes an SPR accurate? My opinion the ammo is the single biggest factor (not the FF barrel, although that is helpful).

As far your figures for just the rifle itself, if you want I can send you a complete list of suppliers. Again the total price for new parts for FFL holder is about $1800 and non-FFL holder is about $2200, without the Leupold optics. That may be cheaper depending on your SPR barrel (i.e, ADCO has complete Mk 12 Mod 0 uppers with White Oak barrels I think in the $1400 range, haven't checked lately).

If you decide to go forward with your SPR project, Gunners Mate I wish you the very best.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for all the info. When i say "ransom rest" im just reffering to any rest that clamps the firearm down for accuracy testing, sorry for the confusion. There has been some MK262 both Mod 0 and Mod 1 on the market, although hard to find and very expensive. Both MK262 mod 0 and mod 1 come standard in white box's of 50 rounds, but optionaly come in 20 round box's with two ten round stripper clips. Black Hills sells surplus / rejected lots of MK262, mainly to contractors.

Heres how im picturing the rifle...

LMT Flat-top upper reciever - $100

Bushmaster Chrome plated bolt carrier assembly - $125

PRI Gen III Carbon Fiber Forearm - $325

Gas Tube - $10

White Oak precision SS SPR barrel - $300

Surefire FA-A2 flash hider - $25

Surefire M4FA Replica CAN - $75

Hand lapping & Cryogenic treatment of barrel - $?

PRI Flip up/down .625" front sight/gasblock - $185

Troy Industries flip up/down rear sight - $140

PRI Long Rifle 1913 Rail - $185

PRI "Gas Buster" Charging Handle - $90

RRA National Match lower reciever kit - $180

Magpul PRS stock - $250

KAC ".50 Cal" rings - $175

Leupold MK4 4.5-14x40mm LR/T with TMR reticle and custom shop BDC knobs, 4" sunshade & lens covers - $1,600

TOTAL: ~$3,800

am i forgetting anything here?
 
#14 ·
Hmmm... just as a comparison.

LMT lower - $725
Model 1 24" SS fluted barrel and upper - $360
JP Enterprises trigger - $133
Magpul PRS - $250
ERGO Grip - $30

Tubbs Final Finish kit to hone barrel - $32

Total - $1430

Ignoring scope because I like yours but put a Mueller Tac on mine,.

Gets 3/4" - 1/2" with most loads that I put together and the same with Hornady 75gr TAP.

Took the extra $700 and bought a 300 Win Mag 700P. LOL Kidding you on that. No planning involved, just had the $$$.

I think the SPRs look cool but have yet to see anything that says they are more accurate than any other well-built AR nor is the ammo anything other than a good, solid, well put together Black Hills load. Anything that it does extra is do to loading to 5.56 pressures rather than .223 pressures (IMHO).

I'm looking forward to your range report and wish you well with the build.
 
#15 ·
SPR Parts List

Gunner's Mate I think your list is pretty complete. You are of course using a modified version as many people are. The actual Crane Mk 12's (as I am sure you already know) have OPS Inc brake, the 1's have the KAC 600 meter sight, and the 0's have the ARMS #40, the scope rings on both are the #22 ARMS Medium. Since you have some extra goodies on yours (Surefire and other stuff), I now see where you get the higher dollar amount. It would be nice for you to post some pictures of your rifle and give a range report when you get the build done too.
 
#18 ·
BrutalAttack said:
Question:

It says they specifically designed it to shoot the 77 grain Black Hills load.

What exactly do they do to a rifle to design it from the ground up for one specific load as opposed to just the caliber?
Just means the throat in the chamber is a tad longer, and has a specific kind of rifling and twist for that exact bullet at that exact velocity. I beleive its something like a 1 turn in 7.35 inchs. I forget. Quite a few riflesmiths nowdays are tailoring the barrel twist to the exact caliber and even the load and bullet that the customer wants.

People have been tayloring there loads to there rifles for so long, they figured its time to taylor the rifle to the load now. To summerize what im saying, its basically trickery to make it sound like a really special rifle when its just got a few basic things done to it to make it like that load better.
 
#19 ·
...

In competition shooting the 77gr and up bullets are single loaded because they are too long to fit in a magazine unless the bullet is seated so deeply as to adversely effect the powder space.

Anyone know what Black Hills does to overcome this? My understanding is the BH rounds will fit into a mag. Is that correct?
 
#21 ·
KAC Version of the SPR

For anyone thinking about building the Knight's version SPR Mk 12 Md 1, I have a new KAC gas block and KAC 2 Stage Trigger NIW P/N 98032 I will be posting for sale on the SC equipment ad section.

FYI, the blocks are about $65-$90 depending on whether they are parkerized or KG Koted, and the 2 Stage Trigger MSRP is about $325 This is the same KAC 2 Stage trigger that has been used in the Reece, Mk 11 Md 0, and SAM-R.

For anyone bulding the Md 1 version of the SPR, FYI Knight's parts are not easy to get since they have a $5000 minimum order and only a handful of commerical vendors.
 
#22 ·
Re: ...

junkyard_dog45 said:
In competition shooting the 77gr and up bullets are single loaded because they are too long to fit in a magazine unless the bullet is seated so deeply as to adversely effect the powder space.

Anyone know what Black Hills does to overcome this? My understanding is the BH rounds will fit into a mag. Is that correct?
The Black Hills MK262 loads and their .223 Match loads are different in quite a few ways. First and foremost, the match loads use .223 spec casings with a standard 77gr smk loaded to SAMMI specs. The 5.56mm MK262 loads are loaded to Mil spec pressures using Mil spec casings that have crimped primers and spit out a special order cannelured 77gr smk that is sealed with laquer or whatever they use. The MK262 loads are suppose to be water proof to 3 ATA, well beyond what combat divers submerge to on a combat dive.

The only .223 load from black hills that i have personally seen with the long throat indicator warning is the 80gr .223 load which i dont beleive they make anymore. So in theory, the .223 Match grade 77gr load from Black Hills should fit fine into a magazine, the 80gr loads may be a different story.
 
#25 ·
Couple of additional notes I forgot to add on the pictures. The lower in the photos and builds was an A2, and the actual Crane SPR's were built on A1 receivers (may have changed later). Also, when I say 1 MOA was the average on some of the older the rifles I built with CLE barrels. This is an example of such group 5 rounds 100 yards, using BH SMK 77 grain ammo with my Mk 12 Md 1 SPR.



These results were usually first shots and as barrel heated up the groups would typically expand.
 
#26 ·
MK12 MODO

If a MOD 0 interests you, go for the genuine article from PRI (Precision Reflex Inc.). www.pri-mounts.com

Their upper comes complete as mil-spec'd with the Ops, Inc. 12th break/mount and all other components minus the scope/rings. Just under $1900 but when I did the math, it was cheaper than trying to build one by self-sourcing the individual parts, and it's guaranteed for accuracy and function.
 
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