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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone!
Haven't been on the forums in a while but I'm about to buy a new rifle. I have already eliminated the 7mm, .300 RUM, .300 WSM, and the .338 Lapua. I can not decided between these two calibers and I have research all I can on them but I figured I should ask here. So, I am buying this gun from cabelas.
Here are my picks for a .338 WM:
- Remington® 700 North American Custom Rifles : Cabela's

- Browning® X-Bolt Stainless Stalker Bolt-Action Rifle : Cabela's

Here is my pick for a .300 Win mag:
- Remington® Model 700™ Long-Range Bolt-Action Rifles : Cabela's

I know that the .300 WM has a lighter bullet and the .338 WM has a more of a flat-shooting gun at long ranges. I mostly deer hunt but I am going to start elk hunting and bigger game hunting. I will also be doing some extreme long range shooting, maybe 1,500-2,000 yards. Yes I know it's crazy but that's what I want to do with a new gun. So what are all of your opinions? What gun will benefit me the most in the long run? I already know that ammo is harder to find for the .338's so that is one con about it. Is the .338 Win Mag more accurate at longer ranges? I will be buying factory ammo for now, I can't really afford reloading equipment at this time. Thanks in advance!

- DeerHunter16
 

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I would suggest you come to a solid solution to what you are trying to do. If I am hunting white tail then .338WM is a bit much. Some things to consider for target shooting the ft/lbs of force left over only need to be enough to ring the steel or break paper. But if you are going to hunt then what is your maximum range. I am not trying to judge your shooting skills, but I am asking you to. Are you accurate enough to need .338WM power at say 1400 yards to hit an elk, or will your hunting be limited to 500 yards? Then you need to consider how much energy is left over at that distance. Is it enough to humanly kill, or is it going to cause unnecessary harm. So does the round your trying to use have the necessary energy for your hunting limitations that you set. Are you shooting unknown distance and need a flatter round, or are you shooting known distance where you have the precise distance. I would suggest using 1 rifle for target, and 1 rifle for hunting.

These are just questions to help you decide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the fast reply.
I can honestly say that I am a good shot with anything, the first time I ever shot a gun (was a .22 marlin) I shot an old .20 gauge shotgun shell on a tree at 150 yards with no scope (My cousin was like "you can't shoot that" and i did, my first time). But anyway, my hunting distance is not really limited. Were I hunt (for now) is some open fields and some wooded area. Right now I hunt with a .12 gaugue using slugs and that can only shoot at a max 100-125 yards which is not enough for where I will be going soon. I will be shooting unknown distances and a flatter shooting round is best. I can't afford both rifles, I can only get one. I really need one gun to do both target shooting and hunting, for some reason I'm obsessed with shooting at long ranges (2,000 yrds) lol.

I do know that the .338 WM has less drop at longer distances but the .300 WM is about the same with the .338 at 600-800 yards (I think). I don't care about recoil, I can always get a pad or something. I will shoot steel at about 1,500-2,200 yards and hunting up to 1,200 yards (depending). Once I pick what caliber to buy then I can pick out the gun that I will be getting (from the list I posted). Thanks.

P.S.- I use to hunt with an old .30-30 and that's similar to a .300 WM since it's a .30 caliber bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Can you share what led you to not consider the 7mm?
Not sure, I read it wasn't the most perfect caliber compared to the .300 and .338. Isn't it smaller than the .300 win? Sorry if I'm mistaking. I Simpliy can't decide over the .300 wm and .338 WM.
 

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In MOA how accurate are you with your best gun?
The animal deserves the best.
Right now I am 2 MOA with my 270.
I have shot better with some other rifles I have but they are not large animal caliber.
I'm not shooting past 200 myself.
You should be able hit a 6 inch steel at 300 yards better than 90% of the time.
Any less is a wound and a running animal.
To hit the same 6 inch vital area at 600 yards you need to be a 1 MOA shooter.
1200 yards then a better than half MOA shooter with your gun that also totes half a ton of energy to that range for big animals.

That isn't me. I don't own a MOA centerfire rifle.
After two years and two cases of ammo I finally got my first 100 yard sub MOA group with a 22.
That was off bags with expensive ammo and a 20x Leupold.

Do not underestimate the skill necessary to shoot like you want to.
It doesn't happen overnight or on a budget.

What are you shooting now for practice?
 

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I second everything hypo said, any animal deserves your most humane shot.

With all due respect if you cannot afford reloading equipment then how can you afford the ammunition to practice all this long range shooting of which you speak? What you don't see on the long range shots on u tube are the usually custom rifle, $2000+ scopes, thousands of rounds down range, spotting scope, range finder, wind gauge, laptop for firing solutions etc. These guys do not just guess where the bullet is going to land at a guessed distance. Ask Orkan what actually goes into pulling off a 800 yard killing shot?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Right now, I only have a .12 gauge Mossberg 835 ulti mag. I have another barrel for it to shoot slugs (rifled slugs in a smooth bore barrel). I have a cheaper 70.00 scope on that and at 75 yards I got very close to bullseye ( I can't really remember that). I just can't afford reloading equipment if I buy a .338 wm , but if I buy the remington 700 .300 win mag I will be able to afford reloading equipment.
I guess I should just go with a .300 win mag then or a .300 Weatherby mag. Now I can afford reloading equipment this way, so I guess the .300's is the way to go.

I plan on buying a Bushnell legend HD scope in 4x-12x..they're like 300. Sooo....I will either go with a remington 700 or a browing bolt action stalker rifle.
 

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Shooting those kinds of ranges takes a lot of practice, and technique work. I do not think it is wise to try to hunt at extreme ranges, or even shoot at extreme ranges without the proper weapon and equipment. If you wish to get started in long range shooting we have some excellent material to help you along. But without a proper grasp of some key fundamentals I believe this could end up badly for the animal being hunted. This is just my opinion, but as of right now, it doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't believe that scope you are looking at is rated to take the punishment of a .338wm. Also you will need a lot more equipment, and firm grasp of ballistics, trajectory, wind calls, environmental affects. I believe Bryans books could help get you started.
 

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Right now, I only have a .12 gauge Mossberg 835 ulti mag. I have another barrel for it to shoot slugs (rifled slugs in a smooth bore barrel). I have a cheaper 70.00 scope on that and at 75 yards I got very close to bullseye ( I can't really remember that). I just can't afford reloading equipment if I buy a .338 wm , but if I buy the remington 700 .300 win mag I will be able to afford reloading equipment.
I guess I should just go with a .300 win mag then or a .300 Weatherby mag. Now I can afford reloading equipment this way, so I guess the .300's is the way to go.

I plan on buying a Bushnell legend HD scope in 4x-12x..they're like 300. Sooo....I will either go with a remington 700 or a browing bolt action stalker rifle.
You sir need to take a step back and a long hard look at what you are doing. The last thing in the world you want to start with is a 300WM or any other magnum for that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No I wouldn't even shoot an animal at those distances. The only .338 wm I can afford with reloading equipment is the Browning x-bolt. I would like to be schooled over trajectory so I could understand it better. I won't start shooting thoughs long distances until I can understand how ballistics, wind calls, and environmental affects really work. But don't worry, I would never shoot at an animal that far away, most likely it would run off and I would have to track it down. That one deer I shot with a .30-30 (no longer have it) got shoot at in the lungs at 125 yards and the bullet went all the way through and that deer ran about 200 yards and dropped dead (blood loss). So all-in-all what caliber should I really get? Do they even make reloading supplies for the .338 wm's anymore?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You sir need to take a step back and a long hard look at what you are doing. The last thing in the world you want to start with is a 300WM or any other magnum for that matter.
Why's that? The minimum caliber I'm starting with is a .300 wm, because it's cheaper and easier to find. I really like the Remington 700 long-range and the Browning x-bolt so now all I have to do is decide what gun to actually get. I can handle the recoil of a .300 magnum, it can't be that much more than a .12 gauge with 3 1/2 buckshot or slugs.
 

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You need to tell us exactly what you want to do with the rifle. Only then can we give solid recommendations.

For now I'll simply say that at the level of experience you have right now, you need to avoid big hard-recoiling magnums. Forget 338's. Just forget them unless close range hunting of North America's largest animals is your only goal. If you want to learn to shoot at distance and also be able to hunt, then there is nothing more you need right now than a 6.5 Creedmoor in a properly configured rifle. Countless deer and antelope die to that type of setup every year at distances up to 1000yds.

If you really want more horsepower, then go into something like a 7LRM. Still, my recommendation for a tame short action cartridge stands. For you to go to a 338 of any variety right now would be like a 14yr old that just got his license to head to new york city to learn how to drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Okay, after this year I will be hunting elk. Right now I hunt white tails (yes, I know a .338 is too much for a white-tail). I have plenty of experience with shooting, just becuase I own a 12 gauge doesn't mean I'm not good at shooting. I will shoot elk at no further than 1,000 yards which is a very big overjudgement since I don't know exactly where I will hunt for elk yet. Okay, so let's compare a 7mm to a .300 WM. What has what the other one doesn't have and what the pros and cons of each caliber?
 

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Okay, after this year I will be hunting elk. Right now I hunt white tails (yes, I know a .338 is too much for a white-tail). I have plenty of experience with shooting, just becuase I own a 12 gauge doesn't mean I'm not good at shooting. I will shoot elk at no further than 1,000 yards which is a very big overjudgement since I don't know exactly where I will hunt for elk yet. Okay, so let's compare a 7mm to a .300 WM. What has what the other one doesn't have and what the pros and cons of each caliber?
No one here is judging your hunting abilities. But shotgun, and rifle are not the same. What you are asking for is really hard to accomplish. I agree with Orkan, you should take a look at the .243, .260, and .264 set ups. All of those are very capable deer hunting setups as well as competition rounds. Their are other things to keep in mind, besides "can I handle the recoil". Take a look at the Bryan Litz series, before you buy anything. Get a grasp of what you are trying to do, and what is able to do it. I cannot stress enough how important it is to know what you are doing, before you go out buying. Take a breath, slow down a little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No one here is judging your hunting abilities. But shotgun, and rifle are not the same. What you are asking for is really hard to accomplish. I agree with Orkan, you should take a look at the .243, .260, and .264 set ups. All of those are very capable deer hunting setups as well as competition rounds. Their are other things to keep in mind, besides "can I handle the recoil". Take a look at the Bryan Litz series, before you buy anything. Get a grasp of what you are trying to do, and what is able to do it. I cannot stress enough how important it is to know what you are doing, before you go out buying. Take a breath, slow down a little.
Okay, sorry..I apologize. I'll look at Bryan Litz series before I buy anything. I did decide to get into reloading Can you name everything that I will need? (You don't have to go into detail; just a brief suggestion would work great). I went on Cabela's web and started looking at reloading things, what should I get to start reloading?
I do know that I need primers, brass, bullets, a press, brass cleaning tool, shell holder, press die, and the rest I'm unsure about. If you don't mind, would you give me some suggestions on reloading?:) Thanks.
 

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Okay, sorry..I apologize. I'll look at Bryan Litz series before I buy anything. I did decide to get into reloading Can you name everything that I will need? (You don't have to go into detail; just a brief suggestion would work great). I went on Cabela's web and started looking at reloading things, what should I get to start reloading?
I do know that I need primers, brass, bullets, a press, brass cleaning tool, shell holder, press die, and the rest I'm unsure about. If you don't mind, would you give me some suggestions on reloading?:) Thanks.
I would honestly suggest finding someone that can teach you by hand. Reloading has somewhat to do with your goals, and what you buy. But it also has to do with feel. This is something that its better off you are guided through, so you don't put yourself at risk, and you don't waste money. It really is something that is best taught.
 

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I have plenty of experience with shooting, just becuase I own a 12 gauge doesn't mean I'm not good at shooting.
Leave your ego out of this please. No one said you "weren't good at shooting." The questions you are asking, in the way you're asking them, is like me trying to tell a fighter pilot that I know how to fly because I grabbed the stick on a cesna once. If you know so much, why are you asking the ultimate rookie questions? You are trying to get started on a path that some of us started on decades ago. Why ask questions and then get defensive when you don't like the answers?

I agree with Doc... take a breath. Slow down. No one here is trying to hurt you. We are trying to get you to see the forest from the trees. You can either listen to us, or keep doing your own thing. Ask for help, and slap our hand when we reach out. At some point you'll undoubtedly end up right where we're having you start. Doing it our way early on will save you a lot of time/stress/grief/money. If I could hook a cord up to your brain, and dump in my life's experiences, it would be fast and easy. Sadly I don't know how to do that. So just slow down and realize that it will take years for you to wring out your potential as a rifle shooter. There is so much to learn that you could spend every day for the rest of your life trying to understand it all, and not get it done.

So, assuming you're going to slow up, lets begin anew. We know you want to shoot deer, and we know you don't have the experience to be shooting them very far. The rest really comes down to money.

What is your budget for a rifle?
Budget for optics?
Budget for support kit?
Budget for ammo?
Budget for entire reloading setup?

If you want us to give serious advice, then show us why we should take you seriously? A lot of people go looking for the "best thing to buy" and about 10% of them are even serious about anything they are doing, and just waste people's time. We can help you, if you are serious about getting help, and are willing to learn. Lots of talent here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm sorry guys, I shouldn't have got defensive on what you said..I really apologize. I am willing to get serious with this, and I am willing to learn from you guys. I never said I was a know-it-all, I am asking a few basic questions just as a guide so I don't get the wrong thing or end up screwed.

Okay I'll slow up some. The best budget rifles I have seen so far is the remington 700 and the Browning x-bolt. Basically I can spend up to 1,100 on a rifle. For optics, I think 300 is fair for a good scope, I won't forget the rings and base either.

As for the support kit (I'm assuming this is cleaning) I will just buy a basic kit for all calipers, etc and those go for 60 on Cabelas page. For factory ammo, it will depend..some ammo cost less than others so roughly..40 per box and then if I reload then I could probably save money with ammo that suits me more. I'm not sure what I can afford in reloading supplies however I will know soon. Not talking about calipers...
I think the remington 700 long-range rifle will be best for me just becasue of price and all but I can still afford the browning x-bolt.
 

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Okay I'll slow up some. The best budget rifles I have seen so far is the remington 700 and the Browning x-bolt. Basically I can spend up to 1,100 on a rifle. For optics, I think 300 is fair for a good scope, I won't forget the rings and base either.

As for the support kit (I'm assuming this is cleaning) I will just buy a basic kit for all calipers, etc and those go for 60 on Cabelas page. For factory ammo, it will depend..some ammo cost less than others so roughly..40 per box and then if I reload then I could probably save money with ammo that suits me more. I'm not sure what I can afford in reloading supplies however I will know soon. Not talking about calipers...
I think the remington 700 long-range rifle will be best for me just becasue of price and all but I can still afford the browning x-bolt.
Remington is a better choice than browning. $1100 can get an alright rifle, with $1500-2000 doing better. That $1100 rifle will need a trigger and a bed job to start getting right. Buying on the used market can have great benefits, as the right semi-custom 6.5CM can be had for darn near half price.

$300 isn't even beginning to get a decent optic. $800-$1000 would be closer, and those are considered "budget" low end scopes. A few in the $400-600 range can be workable for an entry level setup... but its a precarious price point. Might need to go through 3 to find a good one.

Support kit I was referring to was mainly things like a kestrel, a LRF, ballistic app for your phone, bipod, rear bag, stock pack, sling, databook(and supplies), etc, etc.

If you are going to go for a factory remington rifle, then I'd get a 243win or 260rem. (if you can find a 260) Getting a semi-custom that someone rebarreled in 6.5CM or 260rem would be a better choice. (with my preference going to the 6.5CM) Factory ammo is readily available for the .243win and 260, and those can be had in factory rifles. 6.5CM has an abundance of factory ammo that shoots and kills quite well, but you'll be hard pressed to find a factory rifle chambered in it.
 
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