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There is NO reason to load subsonic rounds in ANY platform.. Why you would want to do so baffles me. The sound difference is indiscernible at any reasonable distance. However, the energy lost and trajectory are SEVERELY diminished.
 

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Honestly, the sound difference is negligible and most of the guys who load subsonic rounds do so because they don't know better.

The only place I can understand subsonic rounds is in the .22LR. That way when you are shooting at distance your bullets don't go through the transonic barrier...
 

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You must be kidding Greg.

I run a fair amount of subsonic 308. With a suppressor, the sound difference is EXTREME.
 

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I'd encourage you to get some experience with what you're talking about. You are as wrong about this as anyone could be. Anyone that has experience with subsonic rounds through a suppressor will read your posts and immediately classify you into a category which I'd rather not have them classify you into. Trust me.

Subsonic does not have the telltale sonic "crack" that supersonic rounds do. The difference between subs and super's is extreme. My father lives 1.3 miles away from my house. When I'm out shooting supersonic 308, suppressed, he can hear it over at his place due to the sonic crack. When I'm shooting subs... you wouldn't hear anything 300yds away, damn sure not a mile out. At the rifle, you hear just a little thump. The sound of the bullet hitting the dirt is louder than what happens at the rifle in most cases. If you hit steel, well... it's hilarious. Because its so quiet that if a vehicle is running, people don't even know you've fired... and the bullet hits the steel and sounds like someone is down there with a hammer cranking away.
 

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...and then, if you want subsonic shots, why use a .300 Win Mag? I mean, these weapons have been built so you can have faster projectiles with more energy - sounds to me like exactly the opposite of what you are looking for...
 

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There is a major sound difference when running suppressed. Thing is, even suppressed the super sonic rounds carry the crack with them down range. They are almost as loud at 500 yards as they are at the muzzle when they are suppressed. On the other hand, sub sonic rounds have no crack trailing them down range. The only sound is the initial bang which when suppressed isn't much. Like Orkan said, the sound of he bullet hitting whatever is louder than the initial bang.

That being said, 300wm is far from ideal for 30 cal subsonic. 308 works, but is also not ideal. If you are serious about running 30 cal subs then you really need a 300 blackout in preferably a bolt or break action. I have no problems shooting 220 smk's at 1050 out of my 300 blk out and there is not an over abundance as with the 308 and especially the 300wm. You are going to have trouble with consistency with a 300wm and so little powder.

I use a1680 in my 300 blk out. About 11 grains. I used 8gr of titegroup in my 308 with 170gr round nose bullets. Always start high and work down. You don't want a bullet stuck in the barrel. Make sure they are stabilizing before screwing your suppressor on.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
...and then, if you want subsonic shots, why use a .300 Win Mag? I mean, these weapons have been built so you can have faster projectiles with more energy - sounds to me like exactly the opposite of what you are looking for...
I only own a 300 winmag and a 223 but the 223 doesnt have a supressor
 

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Is the .223 an AR? if so, a simple barrel change will have you shooting 300 blkout and it will use the same suppressor as your 300wm. Actually even if it is a bolt gun a barrel change will have you shooting 300blkout. it is just a little more difficult to change the barrel in a bolt gun.

BTW-- what suppressor are you using? any 30 cal suppressor should be just fine with shooting .223 through it if you get the barrel threaded to the right pitch or get a good quality concentric adapter.
 

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Is the .223 an AR? if so, a simple barrel change will have you shooting 300 blkout and it will use the same suppressor as your 300wm. Actually even if it is a bolt gun a barrel change will have you shooting 300blkout. it is just a little more difficult to change the barrel in a bolt gun.

BTW-- what suppressor are you using? any 30 cal suppressor should be just fine with shooting .223 through it if you get the barrel threaded to the right pitch or get a good quality concentric adapter.
I use a Moose suppressor. No its an old Zastava 223 rifle.
 

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There is NO reason to load subsonic rounds in ANY platform..
Huh?!

How much time have you spent having live rounds go past you?


I can emphatically state that supersonic rounds, even from hundreds and hundreds of yards out, are quite loud when they move toward and on past your position. On the other hand, I can likewise state that when a subsonic round goes over your head, you won't really know it unless somebody tells you, or it was close enough to 'feel the breeze.'

Subsonic suppressed mid-bore rounds have a very serious and entrenched place in the world. The ability to put a 220 grain bullet on a target from hundreds of yards out (still cooking along with +P .45ACP energy levels...and carrying much greater SD to boot) with nobody knowing unless they saw the impact...well, that's handy to some people.


Now then, as for Subsonic .300WM: with great care in round construction, yes it can be done--with a LOT of floc--but the question would be why would you ever want to do so? That's bonkers, mate.

-Nate
 
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With Trailboss, and I am sure other sub-sonic powders, pressure is really not an issue. The nice thing about shooting the Win mag is you have the option of using the heaviest bullets available, 230 Bergers or 240 Sierras, stablization may be an issue at lower speeds though. .308 case capacity makes this tougher. I kind of figured why you were asking about the Win Mag, makes sense to me. Good luck.

Kenny
 

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With Trailboss, and I am sure other sub-sonic powders, pressure is really not an issue. The nice thing about shooting the Win mag is you have the option of using the heaviest bullets available, 230 Bergers or 240 Sierras, stablization may be an issue at lower speeds though. .308 case capacity makes this tougher. I kind of figured why you were asking about the Win Mag, makes sense to me. Good luck.

Kenny
I've got plenty of case capacity to push 240's to 1050 in 300 blk out with case capacity to spare. The issue is twist rate and stabilization, not case capacity. The only reason to use trail boss for subs us to fill up an over abundance of case volume (like in the 308 and 300 wm), but it is still not ideal. 300 wm is prob 1:10 twist which prob will not stabilize 220's or 240's at subsonic speeds unless either they are round nose or they are loaded backwards (yes target bullets are more stable flying backwards). I would do a lot of testing before ever attaching your suppressor. Let us know what you find out.
 

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Over the years I've spent a lot of time experimenting with sub 308 mostly with cast lead bullets and with various levels of success. Bulky powders help, I used the old and discontinued noble 80 & 82 but the new trail boss should be the answer to our problems. Whether you can get hold of any in deepest Africa remains to be seen. There are a number of threads on this site about sub loads and the 300 blackout forum.
There are lots of uses for subsonic ammo such as shooting vermin or small game with out disturbing an area that you are hunting large game in, quiet practice or for a non destructive finishing shot for a trophy. A mill dot scope will help as the trajectory with be miles out from a full power load.
Anyone who has spent any time marking in the butts will know just how loud a super sonic bullet is in flight. You can easily understood why foxes, coyotes etc get "lamp shy" after a near miss.
Good luck but as stated earlier work down not up as I have got two bullets stuck in barrels experimenting.
 
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