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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I tried posting this last night. I don't know if it got rejected or if I screwed it up TWICE.. I tried to post it twice.

anyhow... I want to buy a gun that is accuarte and can take a deer at 1000 yards. (i would rather not discuss ethics behind such a shot.. got yelled at on another site about it)

If I get a chance to take one and KNow I am capable of it and that the gun is too then...

I have been told a 308 is the way to go.. but is not lethal to 1000 yards
338 will destroy meat at any range. I can get a weaherby 338 Vanguard with 2 boxes of ammo and a leupold scope for $1000

I have been leaning towards 300 wsm or 300 wm.. but have been told 300RUM...

I will reload for it eventually but will buy the ammo first to get it zero'd and check its accuracy. I am thinking I may get a TAC ops but think I may be overdoing it... I will use it for shooting at the range and hunting Deer...

Any help suggestions or ideas on the best rifle for the job?
 

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Long Winded.

I'm gonna lecture. Cause I can!

Ok, not really.

I'm a gunmaker turned scum bag security contractor. In my former life I was (least I like to think) pretty good at putting a rifle together.

1000 yard Bambi guns are doable, but you need something with enough attitude to deliver the KO punch at over half a mile.

I say nothing smaller than a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and you better shoot at least a 180 grain bullet. 338 Lapua Magnums are nice too. Really nice. . .

This can bring up a whole topic subject to heated debate. I say go big simply because we must remember that this isn't a gun for shooting people.

People as a whole tend to lie down and die quietly when mortally shot. Deer and critters just know they are hurt and they try like hell to "get off the X." You need to take the animals wheels out from under him so that it has no choice but to lie there and bleed out. This is why I advocate "crew served bolt guns" for Long range "huntin-n-killin."

Stick a long barrel on it, 28" or greater and then blaze away. You'll be well served to allocate some of your time to careful ammunition development too. Store bought ammo probably isn't the answer.

Obviously the more you spend on the rifle, the better the performance expectation will be. I won't administer a sermon about tuning up receivers and how to bed rifles.

I just encourage you to spend your money with someone who has a great reputation and an understanding for long range bolt guns. If in doubt, smile politely and keep driving.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Chad Dixon
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks for your candor

didn't sound like a lecture at all.
I have been steered away from 338 just simply due to
A. Ammo availability and components
B. Apparnetly the bleeding out is done so quickly that the side of the deer the bullet exits leaves a huge hole and ruins a lot of meat.

Now, I love teh thought of using a 338 and saw a guy shooting antelope with a 338 weatherby at 1100 yards...on uTUBE. yet everyone else but him tells me to run from a 338 Weatherby. And from what I hear about Shawn Carlock (makes a 338 EDGE) his comments mean a lot... And I love teh idea of owning that kind of fire power. One of my Brother in laws was also a Sniper for a time and is a very precise engineer type... who als0 suggested staying away from 338's and weatherbys becasue of accuracy. The other brother in law has the weatherby vanguard and scope for sale...

With all that said is the 300 RUM hard to find pieces for? Will I start with a model 700 and go from there?

I want a gun that will last. I am not afraid of carrying a heavy ass gun if that is the compromise from having to buy two guns...

thanks again for your comments.. Noted, considered and no further along in my solution.. :lol: just cuz everyone has a good opinion... If my max opportunity is say... 700 -800 yard for deer, but 1000 at a target.. what should I be looking at???
 

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If you are going to use it for range work then you will have to be very careful of barrel heating. You won't be able to fire many rounds in a session at the range because of the time it takes to cool down the barrel. A high capacity 338 (LM, Edge, AM, RUM, etc.) is not going to be bench friendly, either, at least not without a good quality muzzle brake and then you're not going to be popular with your neighbors on the firing line.

As for shooting deer, you can't do better than one of the afore mentioned 338's unless you move up to a 375 CT or 408 or so. However you are going to put a BIG hole in whatever you shoot with any of these. If losing a fair amount of meat is a problem (like a whole quarter) then these will not make you happy.

I use a 300RUM to shoot long range pigs with, it works quite well for that and doesn't do a lot of meat damage. It is also easier to shoot at the range and no one is angry at me over a muzzlebrake. :wink: It's easier to shoot at the range because I don't have quite the heat build up, too. If you want to do less meat damage, then this is the cartridge for you. With a 200g Nosler Accubond bullet it should do quite well at whatever range you want to shoot. Mine does very well with the Berger 210g VLD's. They also work quite well on game.

Good luck on your decision.
 

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If this were me and I wanted a "buy it once and forget about it" kind of rifle.

Here's what I'd do.

A Nesika action. for a boomer 338 you need an M set up either as a single shot or a repeater. It's purely personal. I'd stay away from magazines though. They are just too restrictive when getting creative with seating depths and different bullets. (detachable magazines)

A 338 Lapua uses a .590 bolt face. The Model M Nesika is the biggest offered and uses a .750" bolt body instead of the normal .700"

I'd get the drop bolt option so it's sure to clear any scope made.

I'd opt for the better SS bolt shroud. They come with aluminum otherwise.

Get the thicker recoil lug if you wish.

The Remington style tang model looks more conventional, the heavy rectangular tang is also nice.

It has NO effect on accuracy. NONE.

Get a barrel from any premium barrel manufacturer. I've used them all and they all shoot great 99% of the time. I do have my pet favorites but its more because of the personal relationships fostered than anything.

Pick a stock thats suited for the long action and the heavy barrel this thing is going to have. Ian Robertson or McMillan are my top two recommendations for anything synthetic.

Optics. Spend as much as you can on a real scope.

Real scopes are:

US Optics
Nightforce
Leuopld
Swarovski
Schmidt and Bender
Unertl
Zeiss

For 1000 yard work you Gotta have one with a 30mm tube.

Here's why.

Light in a scope is just like tranny fluid being poured through a tranny funnel. It really doesn't matter how big I make the mouth of the funnel, I can only pour so much through that little hole.

Same thing applies to gun scopes.

As far as calibers goes:

I have a 338 La Poo Poo. I also have a wildcat that has been around for a while now. It's a 338 necked down to 30 caliber.

I sling 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips out of a 34" barrel at 4375fps.

I call it "Mr. Horsepower". This thing has no recoil. the 23lbs, muzzle brake, and dual mercury slugs in the stock take care of that.

For the record: This does a lot of meat damage.

300 yard deer shots to the face are quite graphic.

Its about as unpractical as it can be, I'll burn the barrel out in probably less than 700 rounds.



My "real" deer gun is a 6.5-284.

This is, or was, the premier 1000 yard competition cartridge for quite awhile. I've personally connected out to 600 yards with this gun. Blew a white tail's face right off his shoulders with it.

I use a 1-8 twist Kreiger and sling 140 grainers out at around 3200fps.

It's a hammer and recoil is very manageable.



So, there's my over opinionated view on 1000 yard huntin-n-killin rifles.

Hope it helped.

Again, nothing wrong with a 300 Rem Ultra either. Great cartridge.

In 2004 I built a gun for a guy named Dan Kinneman. he owns Kinneman's Custom Products. It was a 300 Rem Ultra with a ridiculously long barrel. (36" if I remember correctly)

A while later I got my copy of Small Caliber news and he was on the cover of it holding a dead prairie dog and a sign that read:

2552 yards.

Dan, you are a sick little man and I love you for it!

 

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LongRifles said:
For 1000 yard work you Gotta have one with a 30mm tube.

Here's why.

Light in a scope is just like tranny fluid being poured through a tranny funnel. It really doesn't matter how big I make the mouth of the funnel, I can only pour so much through that little hole.
I will agree you need a 30mm tube, but it has nothing to do with light transmission. Objective lens dictates how much light is transmitted to the eyepiece as I understand it. The only advantage to the 30mm tube is adjustment range, which you need all you can get for long range shooting!


Which bullets are you using in your 6.5-284 for whitetail? I've been using 140 gr Bergers since I had a Partition fail at extended range. I've managed some 550ish yard kills in the vitals.
 

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tylerw02 said:
Objective lens dictates how much light is transmitted to the eyepiece as I understand it. The only advantage to the 30mm tube is adjustment range, which you need all you can get for long range shooting!
Not according to Mels optic FAQ..... :!:
 

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Ravenblack said:
Not according to Mels optic FAQ..... :!:

mele said:
Q: What difference does tube diameter make? Which is best?

A: Scopes come in several different body tube diameters. The two most common are 1 inch and 30mm. Larger tube diameters allow for more elevation adjustment and generally make for a stronger scope. The downside is the bigger they get, the heavier they are, and the smaller ring selection gets. The most popular tube diameter is 30mm.
I didn't mention strength :wink:

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, nor the last!

Scopes with a 30mm that are also made in 1" will have the same erecter tube. The 30mm main allows that same sized erector tube to move more in any given direction, thus more adjustment range. If the 30mm had a larger erector tube, then it wouldn't have the extra room to move inside the main.

The lens size and lens coatings determine transmission. Exit pupil is most often determined by objective diameter and magnification.
 

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Mel wrote:
A top quality 40mm objective scope will be brighter and clearer than a cheap 55mm space scope. Again, buy the best you can afford, and suspect any cheap scope with fancy features.
I was getting my head messed up. Yes, a bigger objective is better than the same quality smaller objective.

The new Falcon FFP seems to be the best of their range for light gathering, but only has a 44mm lens.

You are correct.
 

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landcbeitner said:
As I understand it, the objective is the key to light transmission (so long as glass quaility and lens coatings are good). A larger objective lens would be simular to a pupil dilating, allowing more light to the ocular nerve where the information is interpreted as a visual image.
Exactly. The largest exit pupil on a given magnification is key. You'll see the fine Euro-scopes will have the largest exit pupils.
 

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Ok, lots of comments on the one thing I figured no one would care about since the thread is about caliber selection.

But anyway. . .

If you are having to run your scope to the ends of it's adjustment to make the ranges you are trying to shoot at you are already behind the curve.

This is what included elevation scope rails are for.

Call a scope manufacturer and ask this question:

Take two scopes with identical features except the main tube diameter of one is 1" in diameter and the other is 30mm (1.181") in diameter.

Which will appear brighter to the eye when they are looked through?

This is so obvious James Brown could see it.
 
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