[LongRifles]

Long Winded.

I'm gonna lecture. Cause I can!

Ok, not really.

I'm a gunmaker turned scum bag security contractor. In my former life I was (least I like to think) pretty good at putting a rifle together.

1000 yard Bambi guns are doable, but you need something with enough attitude to deliver the KO punch at over half a mile.

I say nothing smaller than a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and you better shoot at least a 180 grain bullet. 338 Lapua Magnums are nice too. Really nice. . .

This can bring up a whole topic subject to heated debate. I say go big simply because we must remember that this isn't a gun for shooting people.

People as a whole tend to lie down and die quietly when mortally shot. Deer and critters just know they are hurt and they try like hell to "get off the X." You need to take the animals wheels out from under him so that it has no choice but to lie there and bleed out. This is why I advocate "crew served bolt guns" for Long range "huntin-n-killin."

Stick a long barrel on it, 28" or greater and then blaze away. You'll be well served to allocate some of your time to careful ammunition development too. Store bought ammo probably isn't the answer.

Obviously the more you spend on the rifle, the better the performance expectation will be. I won't administer a sermon about tuning up receivers and how to bed rifles.

I just encourage you to spend your money with someone who has a great reputation and an understanding for long range bolt guns. If in doubt, smile politely and keep driving.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Chad Dixon

 

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If this were me and I wanted a "buy it once and forget about it" kind of rifle.

Here's what I'd do.

A Nesika action. for a boomer 338 you need an M set up either as a single shot or a repeater. It's purely personal. I'd stay away from magazines though. They are just too restrictive when getting creative with seating depths and different bullets. (detachable magazines)

A 338 Lapua uses a .590 bolt face. The Model M Nesika is the biggest offered and uses a .750" bolt body instead of the normal .700"

I'd get the drop bolt option so it's sure to clear any scope made.

I'd opt for the better SS bolt shroud. They come with aluminum otherwise.

Get the thicker recoil lug if you wish.

The Remington style tang model looks more conventional, the heavy rectangular tang is also nice.

It has NO effect on accuracy. NONE.

Get a barrel from any premium barrel manufacturer. I've used them all and they all shoot great 99% of the time. I do have my pet favorites but its more because of the personal relationships fostered than anything.

Pick a stock thats suited for the long action and the heavy barrel this thing is going to have. Ian Robertson or McMillan are my top two recommendations for anything synthetic.

Optics. Spend as much as you can on a real scope.

Real scopes are:

US Optics
Nightforce
Leuopld
Swarovski
Schmidt and Bender
Unertl
Zeiss

For 1000 yard work you Gotta have one with a 30mm tube.

Here's why.

Light in a scope is just like tranny fluid being poured through a tranny funnel. It really doesn't matter how big I make the mouth of the funnel, I can only pour so much through that little hole.

Same thing applies to gun scopes.

As far as calibers goes:

I have a 338 La Poo Poo. I also have a wildcat that has been around for a while now. It's a 338 necked down to 30 caliber.

I sling 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips out of a 34" barrel at 4375fps.

I call it "Mr. Horsepower". This thing has no recoil. the 23lbs, muzzle brake, and dual mercury slugs in the stock take care of that.

For the record: This does a lot of meat damage.

300 yard deer shots to the face are quite graphic.

Its about as unpractical as it can be, I'll burn the barrel out in probably less than 700 rounds.

My "real" deer gun is a 6.5-284.

This is, or was, the premier 1000 yard competition cartridge for quite awhile. I've personally connected out to 600 yards with this gun. Blew a white tail's face right off his shoulders with it.

I use a 1-8 twist Kreiger and sling 140 grainers out at around 3200fps.

It's a hammer and recoil is very manageable.

So, there's my over opinionated view on 1000 yard huntin-n-killin rifles.

Hope it helped.

Again, nothing wrong with a 300 Rem Ultra either. Great cartridge.

In 2004 I built a gun for a guy named Dan Kinneman. he owns Kinneman's Custom Products. It was a 300 Rem Ultra with a ridiculously long barrel. (36" if I remember correctly)

A while later I got my copy of Small Caliber news and he was on the cover of it holding a dead prairie dog and a sign that read:

2552 yards.

Dan, you are a sick little man and I love you for it!

 

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Ok, lots of comments on the one thing I figured no one would care about since the thread is about caliber selection.

But anyway. . .

If you are having to run your scope to the ends of it's adjustment to make the ranges you are trying to shoot at you are already behind the curve.

This is what included elevation scope rails are for.

Call a scope manufacturer and ask this question:

Take two scopes with identical features except the main tube diameter of one is 1" in diameter and the other is 30mm (1.181") in diameter.

Which will appear brighter to the eye when they are looked through?

This is so obvious James Brown could see it.

 

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Regarding 6.5 bullets.

Hornady is what I use.

 

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or Stevie Wonder....

Ebony aaaannnnddddd Ivory. . ..I feel guud, na na na na. . .

Funny!

 

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I think I meant to say Ray Charles.

Oops. I feel stupid now.

 

[LongRifles]

Call a scope manufacturer and ask this question:

Take two scopes with identical features except the main tube diameter of one is 1" in diameter and the other is 30mm (1.181") in diameter.

Which will appear brighter to the eye when they are looked through?

This is so obvious James Brown could see it.

They manufacturer, if honest, will tell you the 30mm and the 1" both have the same erector tube and that the 30mm version is to give you more adjustment range within the 30mm main and there is not a difference in brightness.

Tell me, how does a 30mm tube provide a brighter image when it has the same erector tube in it?

So, by that argument does it mean that if we replaced both the 1" and 30mm lens with one that's say, a half inch in diameter it would still transmit the same amount of light?

 

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A gross exaggeration to reinforce my point here.


Take a 3 foot diameter sewer pipe and build a scope out of it.

Now, replace only the guts with one inch lenses.

Which one is transmitting more light?

 

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I've just read through the last few.....and we're all saying the same thing....

The smallest "hole" in the scope is the determining factor.....be it a drain pipe with a .5" lens, or a 30mm tube with a 1" lens.

If you have a 50mm Ob, 30mm tube and 1" erector, it'll let through more light than a scope where any of those is reduced.

BUT....scope manufacturers know what is best optically (it is there job....), so it's really down to research and reviews to determine what is best for your purpose and budget....Who cares if it has somehow got 102% light gathering, if you can't afford it. Forget the sizes and theoretical results, look at the actual results.

Well, aren't we just the voice of reason and maturity. . .

Well spoken!

So what caliber have you decided on?

 

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I'm trying to remember, but I'm pretty sure it is the SST bullet.

Looks like a Nosler Ballistic tip. (Orange or red I think)

I can remember the load with no problems.

55 grains of 4831 SC
Norma case
Federal GM210 primer
.005" in the lands.

 

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Let it be plainly understood that I never once advocated the 6.5-284 as a 1000 yard "huntin-n-killin" cartridge.

I said it's my "real" deer gun. Real means its semi-practical to carry. My 23lb 34" barreled single shot 300-338 Lapua Magnum isn't.

As my first response to this thread stated, I advocate/recommend a big 30 and/or 338 caliber magnum for shooting critters at over half a mile.

Next:

Accuracy and shooting in the face. Yes, this is exactly where I wanted to shoot him. It was a spike buck and I'd never done it before.

It's gross and rather morbid, just as I thought it'd be.


The load data I use is already listed.

Understand that prior to doing this I had (and always do/will) taken the time and effort to plot this gun so that I know what my come ups are.

Software is great, but I think we can agree that knowing is the better option.

You gotta be on the wind too.


Scopes. I read an article once a long time ago where a "guy" who had "some sort of degree" in "optical stuff" sat down and mathematically showed the bigger tube channeled more light to the eye.

I know from looking through literally dozens of different premium grade optics over three years of relentless tunnel testing that the 30mm tubes offer me a brighter target.

That's what I know. So what David Tubb and Zeiss have to say doesn't mean much to me. I know what I see with my own two eyes.

David and I know each other also by the way. While his successes in competitive shooting and the gun industry cannot be argued, there are fundamental things about rifles that he and I don't agree on.

I think it best we just steer this back to what the thread was originally written about:

Killing critters at 1000 yards and what's the best ammo to do it with.

My vote is still a hot rod 300 or a boomer 338.

 

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Personal opinion here:


I hate belted magnums.

How comes:

First and most important to me, I just don't like chambering the damn things. No particular reason, I just don't like it.

1. Unless your gun plumber spends the extra duckets on tooling, all belted magnums headspace off of the belt. This means a 300 HH magnum uses the same gauge as a 300WM or 300 WBY. I want to KNOW that my case lies in the chamber off the .400" shoulder datum and that its a qualified distance from there back to the cartridge.

Again, that's just me.

2. The brass gets more beat up when feeding/chambering.

3. Belts are pointless and do nothing (as the 300 RUM and 338 LM proves)

4. There are better case designs that fit in shorter actions.


Again. My opinion here, so take it for what its worth.


I say go 300 WSM. Now, that's provided that you have an action with a bolt that can be opened up to the BF diameter without too much trouble.

I've built a lot of these things. A lot means a sh_t load by the way. You stuff about 65 grains of Varget in it with a 168-180 grain bullet and it flat out gets it done.

Never shot one really far away, but I know guys who do and they like it.

Brass life is "ok". The Winchester stuff typically runs a bit soft. I believe Norma and La Poo Poo are making brass now though.



Might be worth the effort to look into it.

Good luck.