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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I am considering either the 700P or the 700LTR. I will be doing mostly 100-200 metre shooting but I may in the future want to shoot further, maybe out to 600m. I would like to know if the 700LTR could make it out to 600m comfortably. For those who have one or have had experience with the LTR, is the fluting and shorter barrel nice to have? Is there an accuracy difference between the two? How do you like it (either 700)? And yes I do want the black matt, not the VS.
Thanks
Ghost
 

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A not-so-educated opinion, but there shouldn't be any accuracy difference at all, really. Shortened barrels don't mean more accuracy...and the LTR can go to 600m very well, I would think.

Either way, you'll come out a winner if you would be happy with probably .75 moa out of the box, which I would be :D

Good luck!
 

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Again....

Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:39 pm
I have said it once, and I will keep saying it until someone listens.........

Quote:
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:54 am by APK-223: I know the 700P is a favorite and everyone is addicted to them. But I would just like to offer you the thought of saving $. Don't knock the VS, by buddy has one and it can keep up w/ a 700P anyday of the week. Maybe if your looking to put that money somewhere where it might improv accuracy. It may not be worth the extra cash just for palm swells, an extra mounting lug, and .....oh yea...its black.

I don't mean to come across against the 700P, I am just tryin to save you guys some money.

As far as P vs. LTR, @ 600yds the only noticable difference should be the shooter behind the gun. *As far as I know. I don't think the barrel length would play a major differnce until farther out, but that is just off what i a have heard, I am sure someone with personal experience with this can help you out.

But about me quoting my self for like the 1,000,000th time, look at the VS model, save some money and invest it in optics or something. If you are shooting 100-200yds, the 700P has NO advantage over the standard 700VS model, its all up to your abilities as the one pulling the trigger.
 

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APK, I'm sure you probably just skimmed over it, but he did say:

And yes I do want the black matt, not the VS.
So the VS is not an option for him.

In terms of accuracy. Believe it or not, the LTR is the most accurate of the heavy barrel tactical/varmint rifles that remington builds (excluding the custom shop). This is not my view, but that of remington LE.

You will lose some FPS with the shorter barrel, but not enough to prevent 600y shooting. My bravo-51 has a 22" barrel and I was shooting this morning at an unknown distance target that we ranged at 640 meters (tad over 700 yards) and we had no problems. (I've taken this rifle much further than that also)

MEL
 

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Since BC isn't here I will post the link to the info he would have put in this thread.

http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1289

The pics are all dead but there is still some info you might find usefull. TacOps uses almost all 20" barrels on their rifles, Mel was able to get them to put a 22" on his rifle, but for the most part theirs are all 20". (On the 308s)

John
 

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Yes, very true. In fact, Mike (the president of Tac-Ops) and I went back and forth for quite a while. He wanted a 20" on my bravo, I wanted a 24". So, in the end, we compromised on a 22", and its perfect :D

MEL
 

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yea i did skim, sry for that, just tryin to save some ppl some cash. If you have the extra cash and it has to be black, go for it.
 

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mele said:
Yes, very true. In fact, Mike (the president of Tac-Ops) and I went back and forth for quite a while. He wanted a 20" on my bravo, I wanted a 24". So, in the end, we compromised on a 22", and its perfect :D

MEL
You must be a better negotiator with a stronger will than I. In my Dealings with Mike I ended up with a 20". I felt like if I asked for anything else he would make me stand in the corner facing the walls.

All joking aside, Mike is a great guy to deal with and very knowledgeable. And his work speaks for itself.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the replies. I think I will go with the LTR in the end. I will wait until after July when I am done my infantry course with the reserves, so I have time to shoot more and I will have some extra dough to get me the bipod and extras and a crap load of ammo + maybe get started on reloading equipment. I appreciate the saving money thing APK, but way way way down the road my ultimate goal is to go into law enforcement sharp shooting so I would prefer the matt. Also the LTR is better tailored to that occupation anyway. I plan to get the rifle, set it up and shoot the living crap outta it and make slight modifications as I go. Thanks again for your comments.
Ghost
 

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In terms of accuracy. Believe it or not, the LTR is the most accurate of the heavy barrel tactical/varmint rifles that remington builds (excluding the custom shop). This is not my view, but that of remington LE.
+1! Mine is a great gun!

Try KY Imports for a price, I have never used them, but they have (had) the lowest price on the P and LTR. Somewhere I saw the LTR was being fitted with the 40X trigger and some custom work, special run maybe?? You will not regret this rifle!!!
 

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The 40x trigger is a standard option on LTR's and P's now. Its only an option, not a feature on all of them

MEL
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm kind of new to this stuff, and I do live in Ontario so wouldn't it be a real hassle to import it from you Mel? If not I'd rather get it from you to help support SC. I do also know a dealer who is a really nice guy who would be willing to order anything if he can find it, another question would be could it be transported from dealer to dealer ever between countries? I just don't know how everything works between the two countries. Thanks
Ghost
 

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I'd be willing to work with you, and I appreciate your willingness to support us here! Though I do not sell a lot of volume, so I cannot get quite the deal that some others can. Our price would be $740 USD plus some shipping for the LTR.

It would have to be exported to an individual through your dealer. But it requires all the paperwork. No way around that.

MEL
 

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Here is the information you will need if you want to go ahead with the importing process.

What part of Ontario Ghost?

Importing Firearms, Firearm Parts and Ammunition
Here is some information on requirements under Canada’s Firearms Act for Canadian residents who import firearms, ammunition and firearms parts.

When you import firearms from another country, you must comply with Canada’s laws, the laws of the country where the firearms are coming from, and the laws of any other country that the firearms will be passing through.

For information on the laws of another country, please contact the authorities in that country, or their embassy in Canada.

Importing Firearms
You cannot bring a prohibited firearm into Canada as a new import even if you are licensed to possess that class of firearm. You can re-import a prohibited firearm that you temporarily took out of Canada if you have a valid licence authorizing you to possess it and a valid Canadian registration certificate for the firearm. [If you plan to take a firearm out of Canada, note that you may need an export permit from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT). For more information, contact the Export Controls Division of DFAIT at 1 800 267-8376 (toll free in Canada) or (613) 996-2387].

In order to bring a restricted or non-restricted firearm as a new import, you must be at least 18 years old and have a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) that is valid for the class of firearm you are importing. A Possession-Only Licence (POL) does not allow you to import a newly acquired firearm, though it does allow you to re-import one that you temporarily took out of Canada and that is registered in Canada.

If the firearm is restricted and you are transporting it yourself, you must obtain in advance an Authorization to Transport (ATT) from the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) of the province or territory where you will be entering Canada. You can apply for an ATT by calling 1 800 731-4000 or by mailing or faxing form CAFC 679 to the applicable CFO. The form can be obtained from any of the sources referred to at the end of this fact sheet.

If you have the firearm shipped to you, it must be shipped by a carrier company licensed under the Firearms Act to transport firearms.

Firearms shipped by a licensed carrier must be in a sturdy, non-transparent container that cannot readily be broken into and that is not likely to break open accidentally during transport. To deter theft, there should be no markings on the outside of the container to indicate that there are firearms inside unless the marking is an address. It is generally recommended that an envelope labelled “Customs Documents” be firmly attached to the outside of the container. Any waybills, import permits and export permits can then be put into the envelope.

The firearm must be declared at Canada Customs and the applicable duties and taxes must be paid. For more information on the declaration process, please call the Canada Border Services Agency at 1 800 461-9999, (204) 983-3500 or (506) 636-5064. Information is also available on their web site.

All newly imported firearms must be verified by an approved verifier and registered. You cannot use the online application because you will not be able to have the firearms verified until they are in Canada. However, you can fast track the processing of form CAFC 998 by faxing it to 1 877 699-4928 (from Canada or the US) or to 1 613 993-0892 (from outside Canada and the U.S.). For help in registering a newly imported firearm, call 1 800 731-4000, ext 1054 (Canada and the U.S.) or 1 506 624-5380 (outside Canada and the U.S.).

Importing Firearm Parts and Ammunition
You cannot import prohibited ammunition or firearm parts that are classified as prohibited devices, including handgun barrels that are 105 mm or less in length or parts made exclusively for a fully automatic firearm.

You do not need a valid firearms licence under Canadian law to import non-prohibited firearm parts (except for a frame/receiver). However, as indicated below, you may need an export permit from the other country.

The Explosives Act sets limits on the amount of ammunition and ammunition components that may be imported without an import permit. Generally, the Explosives Act allows you to import up to 5,000 cartridges of non-prohibited ammunition for your personal use without an import permit.

For more information, please refer to the web site of Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) or call the Explosives Regulatory Division of NRCan at (613) 995-8415. As indicated below, an import permit may be required for smaller amounts in order to comply with the laws of the exporting country.

Authorizations to Import
Currently, you do not need an import authorization under Canadian law for non-prohibited firearms or firearm parts. However, you may need one to comply with the laws of the other country. For example, under U.S. law, an export permit is required for all permanent exports of firearms, ammunition, and certain firearm parts. The U.S. authorities will not issue an export permit unless they have evidence that Canada will allow these goods to be imported. An International Import Certificate (IIC) issued by DFAIT will provide the required evidence. There is no fee for an IIC.

To obtain an application for an IIC, call DFAIT at (613) 996-2387 or 1 800 267-8376, or fax your request to (613) 996-9933. Please allow up to three weeks for the processing of an IIC application.
Once you get your IIC, you must send the original to the business or individual handling the export arrangements so that they can include it in their application for an export permit.

You and the exporter will have to decide between the two of you who will be responsible for obtaining any required authorizations from countries that the firearm may pass through in transit.

When the imports and exports provisions of the Firearms Act and its supporting regulations are fully in force, you will need an authorization to import all firearms imports and certain firearm parts. Our web site will be updated when this change occurs.

Information
For more information, contact us by one of the following methods:

telephone: 1 800 731-4000 (Toll Free)

web site: www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca

e-mail: [email protected]

This fact sheet is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act and its regulations.

Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.

Le présent feuillet d'information est également disponible en français.

Revised April 2005

You can find that and more at: http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca
 

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LTR v P

The only other thing to consider is the fluted barrel. It will heat up quicker then a non-fluted one, hence a loss of accuracy quicker due to the heat, hence more down time to let it cool off to pull another string of shots. Fluted barrel will have more recoil jump compaired to bull barrel due to weight, hence follow up shots will take longer due to re-aquiring of target. LTR's are great for 'one shot / one kill' work or shooting, but maybe not for rapid fire like in some compitition shooting or 'time base of fire' shooting. I think the stock on LTR has a narrow forend compaired to 700P to save on the weight which in turn means more barrel flip/recoil. JMTCW.
 

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Re: LTR v P

hellsredsled said:
The only other thing to consider is the fluted barrel. It will heat up quicker then a non-fluted one
Well, with normal flutes, the opposite is true. That was one of the original reasons why fluting was developed, for varmint rifles. By cutting the flutes, it increases the surface area of the barrel, allowing more surface to contact the air, allowing for quicker cooling. Of course, the 2nd reason was weight savings.

That being said, the flutes on the LTR of not of traditional design, but a shallow wide grove, which doesn't really increase the surface area much. (if at all)

MEL
 

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Re: LTR v P

mele said:
hellsredsled said:
The only other thing to consider is the fluted barrel. It will heat up quicker then a non-fluted one
By cutting the flutes, it increases the surface area of the barrel, allowing more surface to contact the air, allowing for quicker cooling.
MEL
Well thats half of the reason. As you state, allows quicker cooling...but less mass means quicker heating, too!

From 6mmBR.com reg barrels:
"Fluting and Barrel Heating: Many people ask "Won't a fluted barrel cool better?" The answer is maybe. Depending on the shape and depth of the flutes, fluting can increase the overall surface area of the barrel. Provided there is good airflow around the barrel, this can enhance the barrel's ability to transfer heat. A metal object of lesser mass will heat up faster than one of greater mass. So, with fluting, your barrel may shed heat a bit faster, but it may also heat up more quickly in the first place."
 

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The only place it really matters is when you are shooting long strings which will heat the barrel up, the type of shooting that is typical in varmint huning, which is where the fluting really got popular. When you shoot enough rounds in a fast enough string, the barrels heat up fast, no matter what size it is. At that point, the increased surface area really helps.

Of course, snipers do not shoot long and fast strings (if we are, something has hit the fan!) which is a big reason why fluting is not nearly as popular on tactical rifles. Again, the fluting on the LTR is not of a typical design and is more for reducing weight than anything else.

MEL
 

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mele said:
Of course, snipers do not shoot long and fast strings (if we are, something has hit the fan!)
MEL
I agree, if your on a mission. But if it's just trng, why not shoot fast strings on multiple targets, including follow up shots. Its a good way to figure out your limitations and abilities.
 
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