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Discussion Starter #1
What kind of accuracy should be expected from a stock rifle? I'm lucky when I break 2 MOA with my Winchester M70 30'06. Very lucky.
 

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my remington

My remington 700 PSS was right about .50MOA right out of the box..(whitch is pretty good from what I hear) I bought mine in the TWS (tactical weapons system) form....not sure if that has any effect. Ussually I hear it shoots closer to .75 .85 around there. A good trigger job could help dramatically.
 
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Stock accuracy

It seems that accuracy from a stock rifle really depends not only on the particular brand of rifle, but actually on the individual gun itself. I too have a Winchester M70 .30-06 that out of the box consistently gave me 1.5-2 MOA groups. But then again my out of the box Savage .22-250 varmint gun gives me consistent sub-.25 MOA accuracy!Exceptional from such a low-priced rifle with a crappy trigger. Also, two of my shooting buddies have nearly identical Ruger M77 .22-250s. One of them gives the owner very tight .25 inch groups. The other one, purchased after they were blown away by the accuracy of the first, barely breaks 1 MOA with regularity. Luck of the draw, i guess.
 

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A friend of mine just got into shooting about a year ago, but he only has pistols. He came to me one day and said he wanted me to come with him to buy a cheap little .22 to plink with.

A trip down to the local wal-mart, the cheapest rifle he could get, was the Savage .22 with a 3x scope for $99.00

After 8 rounds or so I had it sighted in close enough so he could adjust it himself (after explaning how), he shot a bit and was getting about 1-3MOA. I fired it and was shooting .73moa @ 50m

It all depends on the gun and shooter. My 2 Winchester 70's shoot about 1.5-2 as well.
 

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My 700-PSS .308 gave me right at 1/2 MOA out of the box. Granted, I've shot only match grade ammo from it.
 
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In all of my experience, I ahve seen nothing but very fine shooting PSS rifles. But then again, I too have only used those wonderful little Federal miracle bullets, the Gold Medal Match 168 and 175 grainers.
 
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winchester

i have a push feed win model 70 heavey barrel i just placed first at a local sniper event it shoots 2-3moa at 450-500yd i have 3 top of the line rems all custom but this is the rifle i shoot the most so it is the one that gets used sounds like you guys need to float the barrel and bed the action most wins dont shoot like
 

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I know this is a given but you can have a cheap rifle but you also need a good scope on it. A good scope can do a rifle a lot of good to a cheap rifle. You just need to take that into account if your getting a cheap rifle, and want to shoot decent groups.
 
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Definitely. Your rifle will only shoot as well as you can see what you are shooting at. Spend as much on the scope as you can, and then worry about your gun's out-of-the-box accuracy. And remember that it is just that. Out-of-the-box. There are myriad things you can do too improve performance.
 

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Speaking from my own expierience, the best thing i did to improve the accuracy of my gun was to just use better ammo. Before i upgraded to a Leupold, i had a cheap 3-9x40 Simmons scope i could still shoot pretty good groupings. I had experimented with a few different ammo types. When i first started shooting and did not grasp all the complexities i had bought military surplus ammo. This stuff was REALLY cheap, like $40 for 140 rounds. Grouping on this were horrible they were all over the paper and this was not the shooters error either, it was the ammo. A few days later, a sniper at a local police station gave me 2 boxes of 168 grain boattail Federal Gold Medal. When i shot this i had some really really tight groups compared to the military surplus ammo and this was still on the same scope.
 
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Thats the thing. All different rifles shoot differently with different types of ammo. Before blaming the rifle for faulty workmanship, try out several ammunition brands and bullet styles, try the moly coated ones, and test several different bullet weights. Eventually you will find the best combination of manufacturer/bullet style/bullet weight for your gun. And of course, as it is with all things, the more expensive "premium" ammo will generally shoot better than the value-pack practice loads.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the input. I've decided to get a trigger job done by a local gunsmith who is supposed to do a great job. I would like to add, however, that this rifle is by no means a target rifle. It's a "lightweight" model, not Featherweight, and it weighs under 7 pounds loaded. It has a Leupold VX-2
2-7 scope on it.
When I first got it I know the problem was me. I went to the range with a friend who had a 300 weatherby that weighed a LOT more. My gun HURT! Way worse than the 300. Add that to a stiff trigger, and I know I had a good flinch going on. I got a good Pachmyr recoil pad as soon as I got home and that solved most of the recoil (and therefore the flinch).
So now I'll get the trigger fixed and see what happens. I guess it's not as bad as I said. I have had some 1.5" groups at 100yds.
 

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The Chuck Hawks site has a good article on "Affordable Accuracy." After doing his study, Bil Johnson gave his results. In order they were

David Tubbs Final Finish - right at 40% reduction in group size with all ammo immedately after fire-lapping the barrel.

Trigger job & reduction in pull from 5.9 poounds to just below 3 pounds - 28+% reduction in groups size.

Bedding the action - 57% reduction in now much smaller groups.

Rifle tested was a Springfield Armory Scout in .308. Initial groups 6.5 Inch -UGGG

Groups after these three steps were taken - 0.67 inches
 

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scope mounts are important too, your leupold scope that you see so well out of is useless if you have cheap mounts and the skrews loosen up on them, i made this mistake once
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I mean that's why you got it right? I sure hope you didn't get it for any 1000yd. comp. cause if you did I think you'll be dissapointed.
 

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ya, i dont think lugging a 500 grain flat nose would be very acurate at those ranges. If you could get it there. But at 25 yds. or less you better watch it. When we were shooting I dont think i hit the targe with your gun. no one hi near the center.
 
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Accuracy Expected for Stock Rifles

Rifles have as variable personalities as people. I've had them shoot .5 MOA right out of the box and I've had others that couldn't shoot 3 MOA no matter what I fed them. I will assume you have mastered your end of shooting the gun (breath control, trigger control, sight picture, etc.) and focus on the gun itself. Look at the barrel channel for any obvious tight spots. If the stock is making uneven contact on the barrel, your groups will be erratic. The cure for this may be free-floating the barrel although pressure-bedding seems to work well on lightweight barrels. Check your scope to make sure it is securely mounted. The slightest amount of play will destroy accuracy. Is the trigger release crisp? A 5-pound trigger is O.K. for hunting as long as it's crisp. If it has a lot of travel, you'll never get the best out of the gun. What bullet weights have you tried? Most factory 30-06s have a rate of twist designed to stabilize 150-180 grain bullets. Also, most guns will show a preference for one load over another, even with the same bullet weight. Try different manufacturers to see if there is a difference in how your gun behaves. If you find a load your gun likes, stock up on that lot number (I am assuming you are using factory ammo, if not then we have a whole new can of worms to open.) Also, look at the muzzle crown. A burr or chip or any irregularity here will through off the accuracy no matter what load you are using. If you find a problem here, get a good gunsmith to re-crown the barrel. Last, check the torque on the screws securing you action into the stock. Try loosening all and then tightening the front screw first. This one should be pretty tight, but be careful of stripping the screw. Next tighten down the rear screw. This one should be pretty snug too, but not as tight as the front screw. I don't remember if the new Model 70 has a center screw, but if it does you will only want this one snug. If it is over-tightened it will stress the action and throw off your accuracy. Hope this helps.

K2
 
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