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6242 Views 48 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Trikky74, 
Trikky74
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I posted this on another forum I creep on, but I really should have posted it here to begin with.

Hi,
So today was my first day, ever, shooting a bolt action .308.

Previously I have used assorted handguns and carbines, this however was a big change from what I was used to. I am attaching some images of today along with what was happening, any advice you all could throw my way would be appreciated.

I bought a Remington 700 sitting in a Bell and Carlson medalist stock w/magazine. It has a Harris bi-pod and a VIPER HS 2.5-10X44 scope and a Timney trigger.

I shot today from prone at an outdoor range and I was having issues from the very beginning. I was having a problem getting a good position on the rifle without losing the sight picture. I'm pretty sure I was booger hooking the **** out of the trigger as well, my groups were absolutely atrocious.

On the plus side, I am pretty happy all 15 rounds I sent downrange hit the target at all lol! The target was only set at 100 yards.

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I've sort of gotten into PRS style shooting at my range. Short story is you have between 90-120 seconds to engage several targets at various ranges with between 8-10 rounds. In most stages you have to vary your firing position and your support. Most of our stages have known ranges so you can write up your range card for that stage on a piece of tape.

The sponsors really dream up some crazy stuff for shooters to do in a stage. I.E. two shots lefty prone two shots righty prone, two shots lefty supported by a barrel.. You get the idea. If you're not quick getting locked into your positions, you end up not sending all the prescribed number of rounds down range. Almost everyone that shoots these things is running an Atlas or Harris bipod. They'll usually let you use one bag for front or rear support which you may or may not use depending on the obstacle you have to shoot on/around/next to.. ETC. The bags you've got might work for load development, but I'd consider getting a decent bipod and practicing with it. I've attended the PRS style shoots because I wanted to sharpen my skills as a hunter and as a target shooter.

When my rifle is on and conditions permit me with my skill set to ding out to a 1000 yds then I practice quickly getting into a firing position that I studied and sending rounds down range. It's not likely I'll place high in these events, but I think quickly evaluating the terrain you have to work with and getting best firing position you can quickly, allows you more time to pick your shot when the big one comes out. You are not lugging those bags out in the field.
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Martino1 said:
I've sort of gotten into PRS style shooting at my range. Short story is you have between 90-120 seconds to engage several targets at various ranges with between 8-10 rounds. In most stages you have to vary your firing position and your support. Most of our stages have known ranges so you can write up your range card for that stage on a piece of tape.

The sponsors really dream up some crazy stuff for shooters to do in a stage. I.E. two shots lefty prone two shots righty prone, two shots lefty supported by a barrel.. You get the idea. If you're not quick getting locked into your positions, you end up not sending all the prescribed number of rounds down range. Almost everyone that shoots these things is running an Atlas or Harris bipod. They'll usually let you use one bag for front or rear support which you may or may not use depending on the obstacle you have to shoot on/around/next to.. ETC. The bags you've got might work for load development, but I'd consider getting a decent bipod and practicing with it. I've attended the PRS style shoots because I wanted to sharpen my skills as a hunter and as a target shooter.

When my rifle is on and conditions permit me with my skill set to ding out to a 1000 yds then I practice quickly getting into a firing position that I studied and sending rounds down range. It's not likely I'll place high in these events, but I think quickly evaluating the terrain you have to work with and getting best firing position you can quickly, allows you more time to pick your shot when the big one comes out. You are not lugging those bags out in the field.
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I do have a bipod as well, I've become pretty good with it.. I don't hunt I just target shoot but what your describing does sound fun or challenging at the least. I mainly am interested in long distance... Right now I've finally got my main 2 rifles lapped in and tuned, a 22-250 and .308, both I've gotten pretty sharp up to 500 yards now with the end goal being 1000. I had been using a lead sled but it's really cumbersome to carry onto the range however its great for tuning your scope, once my barrels were broken in I'd say within 5 shots I had my scopes tuned perfect. With 55gr eld, 41gr h380, cci lr primers my 22-250 is dead on at every distance I've went to (500 yards) it has a rtz feature on the scope, once you have it zeroed (i zeroed at 100 yards) you just turn the rtz adjuster to 200 yards when you shoot at 200, 300 for 300 and so on and it has been dead on without fail. I think the next scope for my 308 will have return to zero adjustment in it.

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Ted_Feasel said:
I do have a bipod as well, I've become pretty good with it.. I don't hunt I just target shoot but what your describing does sound fun or challenging at the least. I mainly am interested in long distance... Right now I've finally got my main 2 rifles lapped in and tuned, a 22-250 and .308, both I've gotten pretty sharp up to 500 yards now with the end goal being 1000. I had been using a lead sled but it's really cumbersome to carry onto the range however its great for tuning your scope, once my barrels were broken in I'd say within 5 shots I had my scopes tuned perfect. With 55gr eld, 41gr h380, cci lr primers my 22-250 is dead on at every distance I've went to (500 yards) it has a rtz feature on the scope, once you have it zeroed (i zeroed at 100 yards) you just turn the rtz adjuster to 200 yards when you shoot at 200, 300 for 300 and so on and it has been dead on without fail. I think the next scope for my 308 will have return to zero adjustment in it.

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I've mentioned this before, a spotter can be a great help getting dialed in out to a 1000. The RO at my range has a mil reticle in his spotting scope to call out the mils I'm off on wind and elevation. That is a big help for correcting poa. Depending on conditions, sometimes you can see the air disruption from the round heading downrange. Seems to be easiest to see when you are right behind the shooter if you can see it at all.
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Martino1 said:
I've mentioned this before, a spotter can be a great help getting dialed in out to a 1000. The RO at my range has a mil reticle in his spotting scope to call out the mils I'm off on wind and elevation. That is a big help for correcting poa. Depending on conditions, sometimes you can see the air disruption from the round heading downrange. Seems to be easiest to see when you are right behind the shooter if you can see it at all.
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That's probably going to be one of my next Investments is a good spotting scope right now we just use a pair of mid-range binoculars and it's pretty difficult to be stable enough with those two really do any good although since I started using those splatter targets it's made it easier. And by the way I found out my wife forgot to send out that package to you that has those rounds of new Starline 308 brass for you to try out she said she's going to get them shipped out today so hopefully you'll get them real soon

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Ted_Feasel said:
That's probably going to be one of my next Investments is a good spotting scope right now we just use a pair of mid-range binoculars and it's pretty difficult to be stable enough with those two really do any good although since I started using those splatter targets it's made it easier. And by the way I found out my wife forgot to send out that package to you that has those rounds of new Starline 308 brass for you to try out she said she's going to get them shipped out today so hopefully you'll get them real soon

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thx. I've used binos too when a buddy brought his 338 lapua out with him. I have a pair of Nikon 7x15's (i think that's the zoom) that I would lean against a post for stability and call hits for him when I didn't get access to the Spotter with the mil reticle. He's got some eye issues that he's hopefully going to get cleared up at the VA. They're starting to yank the chains of vets using their medical benefits when they retire. THATS A BUNCH OF F___ING BS. I better not get started!!!
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Martino1 said:
thx. I've used binos too when a buddy brought his 338 lapua out with him. I have a pair of Nikon 7x15's (i think that's the zoom) that I would lean against a post for stability and call hits for him when I didn't get access to the Spotter with the mil reticle. He's got some eye issues that he's hopefully going to get cleared up at the VA. They're starting to yank the chains of vets using their medical benefits when they retire. THATS A BUNCH OF F___ING BS. I better not get started!!!
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I agree if you went to fight for your country when you get back your streets oughta be paved with gold our vets need to be taken care of more than anyone else in this country

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Martino1 said:
thx. I've used binos too when a buddy brought his 338 lapua out with him. I have a pair of Nikon 7x15's (i think that's the zoom) that I would lean against a post for stability and call hits for him when I didn't get access to the Spotter with the mil reticle. He's got some eye issues that he's hopefully going to get cleared up at the VA. They're starting to yank the chains of vets using their medical benefits when they retire. THATS A BUNCH OF F___ING BS. I better not get started!!!
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I ordered a 10 ba stealth 6.5 mm Creedmoor a couple weeks ago it's supposed to be in within the next day or two I can't wait to try it out

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Ted_Feasel said:
I agree if you went to fight for your country when you get back your streets oughta be paved with gold our vets need to be taken care of more than anyone else in this country

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I don't know about paved with gold, but a promise is a promise. Those guys put their bacon on the line to keep our nation... Well... Free-er than most counties in the world. They did what the nation asked of them and more... Sad truth is that our politicians don't have the decency to feel embarrassed about what they are doing to those that did so much for the rest. I'd be happy if they just kept their promises rather than behaving like weasels with back door copays for medical benefits for retirees.
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Trikky74
Martino1,
I am hoping to get into some PRS events down the road, they look like a lot of fun. I got the .308 because all indications were it was "the" round to learn long distance on and so far it's been a lot of fun. Since I am kind of a masochist I am contemplating getting my next rifle in .223 and playing with that. Hand loads are capable of reaching out and touching 1000 yards and the effort it would take to hit those ranges with that particular round perks my interest.

All that being said I miss my 7mmM and the flatness of that round, it's got me thinking about 6.5CM now lol.
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Trikky74 said:
Martino1,
I am hoping to get into some PRS events down the road, they look like a lot of fun. I got the .308 because all indications were it was "the" round to learn long distance on and so far it's been a lot of fun. Since I am kind of a masochist I am contemplating getting my next rifle in .223 and playing with that. Hand loads are capable of reaching out and touching 1000 yards and the effort it would take to hit those ranges with that particular round perks my interest.

All that being said I miss my 7mmM and the flatness of that round, it's got me thinking about 6.5CM now lol.
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Yeah after reading about then and then seen this particular Savage Precision model 6.5 I had to order it this thing is sweet it has a 28-inch barrel it doesn't come with any Optics though so I'll have to purchase some optic separate but this thing is long and sleek fluted barrel fluted bolt 6-position stock adjustable cheek rest and it's left handed LOL

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I'm no expert on 223's but I see guys at my range top out at about 600yds with 223's. Don't know if they're using hand loads or not. A guy was shooting one suppressed last weekend. Sounded like someone was cracking a small whip.
I get 308's to 1000 with 175SMK's . I've heard that 155's get there too , but I don't have personal experience getting them out to 1000 because I didn't do the load development properly for them. Apparently the accuracy nodes are .25 grains and I did my first spread of 10 groups of 5 at .5 grain increments. My Mistake. I'm looking at a DT with 6.5CM, 308Win and 300 Norma Barrels. Hope that Mutha is the last shooter I have to get, other than barrels. if that thing performs like I hope, there are going to be some rifles put up for sale... First time in my life.
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I have a 223 it's a bolt action pretty high-precision 223 and getting out Beyond for 500 600 yd with it is really difficult. Another issue with 223 is if it is chambered to handle 556 pressures then the 2:23 ammo isn't nearly as accurate in it now that new wylde chamber is supposed to be equally as accurate with the 556 or the 223

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straightshooter1
Martino1 said:
I've sort of gotten into PRS style shooting at my range. Short story is you have between 90-120 seconds to engage several targets at various ranges with between 8-10 rounds. In most stages you have to vary your firing position and your support. Most of our stages have known ranges so you can write up your range card for that stage on a piece of tape.

The sponsors really dream up some crazy stuff for shooters to do in a stage. I.E. two shots lefty prone two shots righty prone, two shots lefty supported by a barrel.. You get the idea. If you're not quick getting locked into your positions, you end up not sending all the prescribed number of rounds down range. Almost everyone that shoots these things is running an Atlas or Harris bipod. They'll usually let you use one bag for front or rear support which you may or may not use depending on the obstacle you have to shoot on/around/next to.. ETC. The bags you've got might work for load development, but I'd consider getting a decent bipod and practicing with it. I've attended the PRS style shoots because I wanted to sharpen my skills as a hunter and as a target shooter.

When my rifle is on and conditions permit me with my skill set to ding out to a 1000 yds then I practice quickly getting into a firing position that I studied and sending rounds down range. It's not likely I'll place high in these events, but I think quickly evaluating the terrain you have to work with and getting best firing position you can quickly, allows you more time to pick your shot when the big one comes out. You are not lugging those bags out in the field.
Click to expand...
Agree and it makes a lot of sense.

Though I haven't done any type of competitive shooting, if I were, I'd want to practice firing with with the equipment I'd be using. My main support bag would sure enough be tough lugging it around (I'm too old for that now ;-) ). But I do like use my bags for load development.
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IMO My AR's seem to be hard on brass, so I'm not so inclined to go for lapua brass to feed them. I've got a Bushy and an Olympic which are low-middle of the road rifles. And well short of feeding them Federal SMK's which can get pricey quick, budget factory ammo is factory just for fun and not accuracy. Nothing against AR's guys, but I just have fun with my AR and my .22 at the 100-200yd targets while I'm letting my 308 barrel cool off. I have a bolt Sako .223 but it has a 1/10 twist that I got about 30 years ago. Don't know what they were thinking with that twist on an 223. When I first got it, It would not do anything with factory ammo. It went in the closet and hasn't been out since.
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Trikky74 said:
Martino1,
I am hoping to get into some PRS events down the road, they look like a lot of fun. I got the .308 because all indications were it was "the" round to learn long distance on and so far it's been a lot of fun. Since I am kind of a masochist I am contemplating getting my next rifle in .223 and playing with that. Hand loads are capable of reaching out and touching 1000 yards and the effort it would take to hit those ranges with that particular round perks my interest.

All that being said I miss my 7mmM and the flatness of that round, it's got me thinking about 6.5CM now lol.
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PRS matches are fun but keep practicing those fundamentals mentioned at AR15. You need a good solid base before you start competing. Get the scope set up for you and practice.
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Trikky74
When I was going over the rifle this last week 2 of the scope rings had loose bolts, I tightened them down and had the most horrible results possible. I was unable to get any rounds on paper from 100 yards away. I moved my target back to 50 yards and started walking rounds in, shooting off of 2 bags that offered a lot more in the way of stability. The rounds were hitting around 9 inches low and 17-18 inches to the right. I was able to get a zero, sort of, from 50 yards but the groups were just horrible.

I don't have a vise to put the rifle in when I mount the scope, any advice on how to get the scope mounted without one would be appreciated.

Thanks guys!
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I had the same thing happen... all I did was loosened it and re-tightened going back and forth in small increments and it pulled it's self back in line... I may have just got lucky

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You really need to get someone local that knows what they are doing to look at that rifle. Something doesn't sound right.
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straightshooter1
Trikky74 said:
When I was going over the rifle this last week 2 of the scope rings had loose bolts, I tightened them down and had the most horrible results possible. I was unable to get any rounds on paper from 100 yards away. I moved my target back to 50 yards and started walking rounds in, shooting off of 2 bags that offered a lot more in the way of stability. The rounds were hitting around 9 inches low and 17-18 inches to the right. I was able to get a zero, sort of, from 50 yards but the groups were just horrible.

I don't have a vise to put the rifle in when I mount the scope, any advice on how to get the scope mounted without one would be appreciated.
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Could be any number of things. One that comes to mind is whether or not the rings are torqued too tight on the scope as too much pressure will affect the internal parts of a scope (particularly one like a Vortex). It's a good idea to have a little torque wrench to torque the screws to the suggested specs the manufacturers recommends. If for some unusual reason the rings are not made to spec, then its hard to find the proper torque . . . but that's pretty rare.

Sometimes it's a parallax issue where one is not setting up one's site picture exactly the same each time a round is fired. Typically, a scopes parallax settings are preset for 100 yrds, so variation on setting up your site pictures shouldn't be much of a big deal. But . . . it could be part of the problem. When you go beyond 100 yrs, then it will surely be an issue. Now if you're wearing glasses with corrective lenses or bifocals (like I do), it can make it a little difficult to get a consistent site picture and for me it took some practice and some figuring as to get a consistent set up.

You didn't say anything about what ammo you're using. If you're not using match ammo, that would add to any of the other issues you're having for getting decent groupings.

Those are the main physical things that come to my mind that could be involved with your results. Being new to and getting used to firing a 308 without a muzzle break can take some getting used to in order to eliminate any flinching that might be going on. (just kind of an afterthought here)
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Tricky are you using a torque wrench. I have a FAT wrench that I use to tighten things up. look up the torque specs for screws holding the action to the stock/frame. While your at it check if the base of your action is making solid contact with your stock/chassis. Check if thr barrel is free floating. Check your torque specs with the manufacturers of the scope base and rings. FAT wrenches are not that expensive.

I've got a laser bore sighter that goes on the end of the barel. If you know how to one shot zero, Take a shot at 25 yds. Clamp the rifle down on the POA, then adjust the reticle crosshairs to the POI. you can save on the borsighter but you have to be pretty close to do that. See where you are after that. If that doesn't work... Well hello smithy.
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