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Discussion Starter #1
Im currently talking with oneeyedmac about doing some work to my 5r milspec(308)..

One of the major changes to the gun will be a new stock because im not a huge fan of the factory stock...

I was pretty set on a manners t4a until i started looking at the AICS 1.5.. I like the look of both.. just wanted to get some opinions from you guys

Im sure the manners stock is going to be perfect... I love the look and styling. However, the AICS is damn cool and there seems to be less guys running that style over the A-series.

The AICS is definatley a little cheaper. The AICS comes with a DBM setup and integrated adj cheek piece.. The manners cost about 675 with the adj cheek piece and a badger DBM runns about 350.. AICS probably saves 1-200 bux..

My main question, as far as the AICS goes, is the plastic covers nice. Does it sound hollow or have a cheap feel to it? Whats your impression of the quality of the stock?

If i have the manners built, it will be done with the 90% carbon fiber option, so im not sure which one will be lighter, im sending manners an email now..

Anyone have a T4A or AICS in the PA, DE, MD area?

Thanks for any input

bill
 

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I am interested in this too. I have been hearing great stuff about the AICS 1.5 and was thinking about getting if my rifle. You said the AICS is 1-200 cheaper then 675 price tag for the Manners? Where did you find that price?
 

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Dcskater602 said:
Im currently talking with oneeyedmac about doing some work to my 5r milspec(308)..

One of the major changes to the gun will be a new stock because im not a huge fan of the factory stock...

I was pretty set on a manners t4a until i started looking at the AICS 1.5.. I like the look of both.. just wanted to get some opinions from you guys

Im sure the manners stock is going to be perfect... I love the look and styling. However, the AICS is :) cool and there seems to be less guys running that style over the A-series.

The AICS is definatley a little cheaper. The AICS comes with a DBM setup and integrated adj cheek piece.. The manners cost about 675 with the adj cheek piece and a badger DBM runns about 350.. AICS probably saves 1-200 bux..

My main question, as far as the AICS goes, is the plastic covers nice. Does it sound hollow or have a cheap feel to it? Whats your impression of the quality of the stock?

If i have the manners built, it will be done with the 90% carbon fiber option, so im not sure which one will be lighter, im sending manners an email now..

Anyone have a T4A or AICS in the PA, DE, MD area?

Thanks for any input

bill

The AICS 1.5 is a really good deal. I have one in olive drab green. As for the plastic on the side it seams more like a hard yet soft plastic. It's the kind that seems like it is make partly of teflon or something since I have a really hard time sticking my dope charts on the stock. But at the same time this type of plastic appears to be rugged even though it will scratch easily. It is not brittle. I don't have a manners stock but I have the McMillan A5 sni-fill with adjustable LOP and adjustable cheek piece with wheel and locking thumb screws. The A5 ergonomics is very similar to the T4A. Now the AICS uses an aluminum chassis for your action so many people do not even feel it is necessary to bed the action. I did not bed mine and my rifle shot fine. You will probably need to bed the manners stock to get the best out of it. Also the weight between the two stocks will differ. The AICS stock will be heavier than the manners combo. Also the AICS is a thumbhole stock and the cheekpiece has a boxy feel to it (once you get behind one you will know what I mean). The manners like the mcmillan I have is a vertical grip so bolt manipulation will be faster. Some people like the thumbhole while others do not. You will have to try both the see which one you like. One thing you forgot to mention in your cost analysis was paying someone to bed the action for the manners and also to have it inletted for the badger dbm since the inletting is not the same as the regular BDL trigger guard inlet. This makes the manners/badger dbm option considerably more expensive than the AICS option. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Hope this helps

Gene
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i was comparing the manners w/ aftermarket dbm to the aics

plus the aics comes with an adj LOP too..

The AICS is definatley cheaper, by the time you buy a manners or mcmillan with the same options (cheek piece and adj length of pull, your at the same price as an aics... then you have to add the $300 for a dbm if you want it... bedding costs a little yea... the aics is def cheaper

you answered my question, mainly i wanted to know if the aics plastic felt "cheap"...anyways....

i think the weight might knock the AICS out of the running for me... although i do 90% paper shooting, i dont need to build a rifle thats too heavy for the 10% hunting that i do... The 5r seems a tad heavy already... im not trying to go nuts with weight on the new stock...

the aics will def be heavier than the t4a with the 90% carbon fiber option im adding... im waiting on a reply from tom manners about the weight of the t4a w/ 90% CF... i think the regular T4A weighs 4.1LBS if i remember correctly... if the carbon fiber drops it to 3.5 or less ill be very happy..

thanks for the input
 

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Try to get a feel on the AICS as I hate how they feel to shoot from. Not a fan of pistol grips. I would definitely get a Manners over an AICS. I have one Manners, a T3, on my 6.5 Creedmoor comp gun and love it. I am having another put on my 300WM which is getting built right now.

AICS are usually love or hate from most shooters. Yes they are cheaper when compared to Manners and a DBM but what good is saving a couple hundred if you aren't happy with the end product?
 

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Rob makes a great point, if you don't like the AICS you just threw away $800.

I happen to have an AICS 1.5 and a Manners T2 (which should be a comparable weight) and a postal scale. The AICS 1.5 with the magazine is 5 pounds 9.6 ounces, the Manners T2 with surgeon bottom metal is 3 pound 12.1 ounces. The Manners isn't adjustable and isn't bedded so there will be a bit of difference there.
 

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Hey Bill

I'm up in MD and my rifle that I had built was built with the Manners T4A -- i knew it was the right choice for me as shoot as I shot it...personally i prefer the pistol grip style versus the thumbhole type and the Manners has a more sturdy feel, plus when you order it, you can get it in a choice or different colors, weights and even a carbon fiber shell option it you want it lighter...

Here is mine that I have posted over in the gallery section...it also has the Badger DBM for my .30/06

http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=28680
 

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Discussion Starter #9
got a reply from tom manners:

"the carbon fiber option usually saves about 5-6ounces on the t4...
it depends on the inlet, but the mcst4 usuall comes in about 2.3lbs with the 90% option"

oneeyedmac... i think that puts the AICS out... 6lbs is a little to heavy for what i want to be able to do...

from manners website:
The standard weight for the T4A is 4.2 lbs. And the T4 is 2.8 lbs
so im thinking a 90% carbon T4A will come out to about 3.7lbs ... im pretty happy with that...

i wonder what the stock 5r weighs:/ cant be much...

its a shame th integral cheek piece is so heavy...

anyways i think itsgonna be manners for sure now
 

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Unless you have a very high mounted scope the adjustable comb usually isn't needed. The comb is plenty high on the Manners. Usually if you need it any higher the small edition of a stock pack, which most use anyways, is enough to make the stock fit.

Save the cost and weight and get the standard T4.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
hmm good point... im going to try new rings on my current setup because i think mine are too tall... however the comb on the 5r stock seems low to me... actually with the burris medium rings and 5r stock... i have about 1.25" of comb built up
 

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What scope do you have? The Burris rings are measured oddly in that they are measured from the base to the bottom of the tube instead of the center of the tube like most others so a 1/2" height is really 1.1" in other rings. If there is more than about an 1/8" between your barrel and the objective bell of the scope then it is too high.

Also the comb of the T4 is higher than the HS stock on the 5 R.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
haha yea theres way more than 1/8 inch... its a wotac 50mm...

im gonna switch soon... plus the burris's are incredibly heavy... i couldnt believe how much they weighed... definatley 50cal proof, but seem a bit overkil for 308

i have like 1/2inch under the scope lol
 

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I have an aics in jersey but that is a bit far.

I saw someone asked what the factory 5r stock weighs. with a lb of paint on mine it weighs a lb and a half. :shock: It is very light. My 300 win mag in AICS has compareable recoil with my 5r in 308
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i think manners will probably be the choice... we shall see what one eyedmac has to say when i call him after the holidays...
 

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A good friend of mine recently purchased George Gardner's .308. It was the one he built for the .308 only Sniper's Hide Comp. The rifle has the Manner's T4A with 90% carbon fiber and a 22" Bartlein Tubb contour barrel with a brake. This rifle is the lightest, most well balanced and softest recoiling .308 that I have ever shot. My next rifle, if I ever have the money, will be an exact copy in a 6.5 caliber. Almost forgot to add the most important part, it is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot.

Edited to add, I have not shot a Tac Ops rifle yet.
 
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