[ir0nside]

Got a few questions for you guys!

I am highly interested in joining up with the local SWAT department here, which is relatively small. I'm about to be heading into the police force as an Officer, and hope to begin my training with a rifle. My goal would be to become a SWAT Sniper when the position were open, after I made the SWAT team (I am confident in being able to gain a spot on the entry team).

The problem is, I am a novice with rifles. I do not even own a rifle yet! I know all about firearms, tactics, fieldcraft, stealth, the theories and principles behind marksmanship, ballistics, and the like. I've always been highly fascinated with it, but have never put money towards it.

I was thinking of purchasing a Remington 700p, and honing myself at the local ranges and - eventually - competitions in the area.

My questions are,

1) Is this Rifle a good choice to begin my long road on, as the SWAT units utilize this rifle in their duties? Thus, I assume it'd be a good rifle to become intimately aquainted with.

2) If so, what type of ammo should I be training myself with, and from where should I get it?

Thanks!

 

[AK]

MilSurp ammo is generally pretty good stuff to be shooting. Although if you really wanted to get on the Tactical Team / SWAT Team as a marksman, I would recommend you get the rifle they use (Apparently the Remington), and check to see what ammo they use. Having it second-nature to you as a shooter will definately give you an edge.

Be good to go for ranges out to about, say, 400 meters. I don't know what that is in yards, even though TacTeam marksmen apparently engage at under 100 yards.

If you're having a real problem with anticipating recoil (One of the problems I had when I first started shooting), go get a cheap little .22 bolt-action. Blast away on that thing until you're so used to it's recoil that you squeeze the trigger not expecting your shoulder to go back. Then go back to the Remington, and you'll pull the trigger, get the limited recoil (more than a .22), but won't anticipate it and pull your sights off-target AS you squeeze the trigger.

 

[ir0nside]

I don't mind recoil - I've fired an m24 something or other that a friend in Los Alamos has. I understand all about how trigger pull, anticipation, and reflex-shooting factor into your accuracy. If recoil is significant, big deal - I'd have to learn to deal with it when training for the SWAT marksman role, anyways, right? I'm fully intent on doing this right, whatever the cost.

I didn't think about asking what ammo they use most often - I will do that. I figured there was a standard that had been adopted in general for their tactical teams. Thanks!

Another question, here. What department would any of you figure would offer the most significant qualifications in an application to the SWAT force? Domestic Violence Unit?

Thanks again.

 

[Jeff_850]

im sure they'd teach you how to shoot
or atleast with the miltary they prefer you never learned anything so they can teach you how to shoot and you dont pick up bad habits and stuff...
are you sure you can get in SWAT, there are slots that will be open for you?
im not law enforcement so i cant tell you much more... dont know how law enforcement does it


a 700P is what MOST swat teams use or atlaest similar to whats used, its a great rifle

 

[mele]

Most teams hold try outs. If it is a small force, it will be a part time SWAT unit, usually training 2 days per month. Then you are standard police guy the rest of the time, with SWAT being an additional duty.

The 700P would be a great rifle to get familiar with. I would venture to guess that your department will use federal gold medal match 168gr, its the most popular for sniping, but it may not be what is used. You would have to ask. Either way, its fantastic ammo to train with, and you shouldn't have to worry about ammo selection UNTIL you are a sharpshooter on your team. At that point ONLY USE WHAT YOU WILL IN THE FIELD. Until then, pic one, and only use it for the time being until you are 100% profecient with rifle/ammo.

MEL

 

[ir0nside]

I'm sure I can, given time. It's a small force, and they have no shortage of tasks out here on the border. I live in El Paso, Texas. Right on the border with Mexico - highest rate of illegal immigration and drug trafficking in the country.

A lot of the cops out here just.. don't care. They don't have the motivation to really make a difference. They seem belleagured, tired. I'm damned sure going to make a difference, and be an outstanding officer. I've seen too much **** here, frankly.

As for SWAT, I'm just going to train myself up to their standards as closely as I can, ahead of time. I'm going to beat their running requirements on my own, I'm going to become familiar with a good rifle and learn all about the mechanics and ballistics of it. I can already beat their basic physical requirements in terms of leg press, pull ups/push ups, and the like. The stuff that will be new and provide a real challenge will be the stuff like decision making, target assessment, and the like, while on the move in tough scenarios.

I do have a tactical mind, though. I play lots of tactical games, I play airsoft (a military simulation which is even used to train some forces out there) and the like, so.. I hope that state of mind can help.

 

[Scatch Maroo]

A lot of the cops out here just.. don't care. They don't have the motivation to really make a difference. They seem belleagured, tired. I'm damned sure going to make a difference, and be an outstanding officer. I've seen too much stuff here, frankly.

They don't care now, but once upon a time, they all said exactly what you did when they applied to the academy. The difference between you and them? You still have the option to not make the job your life. If the department provides one, visit the counselor regularly (every other week) just to talk: they're paid to listen to you talk 'stuff' (as Mel would prefer ) and that prevents you from taking it home to the wife/kids, or bottling it up inside until it turns you into what you don't want to be.

Full time SWAT teams usually serve high-risk warrants all day long, lest there's an emergency call. Gaining experience dealing with felons in the county jail (through the Sheriff's Dept.) is a very respected skill when it comes to appraising SWAT applicants, but quite frankly, I'd hate to work in the jails.

It'll most likely be a while before you can join the SWAT team because there isn't a high turnover rate: while you wait, do your two years of patrol and then try to get into whatever will have you dealing with the scummiest of the scum.

Narcotics in ANY department ANYWHERE in the U.S. is an experience that can't be substituted by any other. Know that you will never make so much as a dent in the drug trade, and although any cop will tell you that the Narcotics division is invaluable, they will also say it's not because it stops crime. The utility of a Narcotics division is the training that it delivers to the officers. I can't stress it enough: narcotics, narcotics, narcotics! It's the gateway to just about any other speciality.

If you want to make a significant difference in the lives of the people and community you serve, look for a department that has a good rating of employing community policing. You may (definitely) hear many of the long-time beat cops call it "Liberal Mickey Mouse Bullstuff", but the statistics show it's the most successful method for not only stopping crime, but rehabilitating entire communities.

You and I are in a similar boat, although I have a little bit of time before I graduate and join the academy, but I've been researching the career for years, so if you would like to discuss it further (or call BS on anything I've said, hehe), my AIM is Scatch.

Scatch Maroo

 

[madgunsmith]

Another thing:

Learn the law and never, ever, ever get sloppy especially when it comes to keeping notes and records.

If you ever have to shoot someone, you will thank me for this advice.

Because if you screw up, you might run into someone like me. At the trial I defended today, a drunk driver went free because two rookie cops screwed up their notes. And by the time I got finished with them, they both made Inspector Clouseau look like a genius.

Mad.

 

[mlammers]

ironside,

From a small agency LE officer, it is not as easy as it sounds to be a small town cop. Most dont realize small depts are the norm, large ones are the exception. I have been in LE for 14 years, with agencies from a Township, to village, to State DNR, to my current small city dept(I have been here for 12 years). In a small agency Mel is right training time is limited, much of you equipment may come at your expense, training may have to be done in off hours, on your time if you want more than the minimum(and you most certainly will).

We have been doing Community Policing since our inceptions, as have most small towns, it is the nature of the beast. I can tell you that in a small town dept there is no narcotics division, the street cops do it all, and it does work, the depts up here all work together pretty well. Patrol is the backbone of Police work, you handle all types of people, the good, the bad, the best and the worst that humanity has to offer. Listen to the instructors, FTO's and all the vets, take something from all of them, and leave the bad stuff behind. Form you own way of doing the job, but stay inside the rules, your career will be short if you dont.

Listen to MAD, he is right take notes, document all you do, and never ever lie. The job is tough, and it can break you down over time, but look for the little victories and you will be able to stay positive. We all come on wanting to make that huge difference in the world, and to correct all the wrongs done by other cops. Take your time, get aquainted with LE in general, and the rest will happen. I finally got our sniper program going this past year after seven years and two chiefs of trying.

If I can be of help just ask.

ML 313


Know your enemy and yourself, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles-SunTzu

Practice does not make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT-OSP Drill Instructor

 

[ir0nside]

That was some valuable information. Especially on the note-taking process. I realize, now, how much documentation and paperwork I will be doing. That will be a challenge, I am sure! I was the guy in high-school who always took notes in my head, in my own way. I figured that would help me while doing observation and the like, but yeah.. I'll have to start training myself to take a few notes each day, in preparation for the force.

As for being in a small town and being restrained to community policing.. I do not mind community policing. As I said before however, we have the largest narcotic port in the country here, to put it bluntly.

I know a local Customs agent here, whom is primarily a narcotics officer. He busts and arrests so many people it is simply astounding. I will ask him how much the police department and his department in customs work together, and perhaps when on the force I can work alongside Customs/Narcotics, and gain some good experience that way.

Perhaps that will help out a little on the streets.. make some sort of small impact. Perhaps it'd gear me up with some good experiences to take into SWAT.. and perhaps it'd give me a good mark on my candidacy for making the team at all.

I do not mind Community Policing or Patrol, in any case - you get to be mobile, and you get to be the guy who dispells the saying, "A cop is never around when you need one." Then again, I suppose Patrol are also those whom foster the saying, at the same time! =)

I'd love to talk to you both in private, I'm trying to soak up as much information as I can. I do not intend on failing. I do not fear a long wait time to have an opening.

I want to live life to it's fullest.. and I believe this is the best way to do just that.

 

[14sAREGOOD]

Not to burst your bubble but... Get hired, make it through the academy, get off probation, earn a good reputation, and continue to train for SWAT and Sniper work. If you are not a cop now then you do not know SH1T about police work. Sorry but this thread is a joke. No offnse to irOnside but you sound a little young.

And thanks to the defense attorney: "And by the time I got finished with them, they both made Inspector Clouseau look like a genius. "


That is great you defend criminals. I will remember to never listen to you.

Thanks in advance for the Flaming I will receive but you guys are sad group. I won't be back.

 

[muzzleblast]

who needz da bum?

Ironside, if its what you want to do, then try it. Its that simple, especially if you want to work in LE anyway. Don't let that bastard tell you what you can or what you can't do. How the hell does he know.

And if thats his opinion of defense lawyers I sure hope he isn't in LE

 

[AK]

That is great you defend criminals. I will remember to never listen to you.

Thanks in advance for the Flaming I will receive but you guys are sad group. I won't be back.

It's nice to know what you think of your own constitution. At some point, I hope buddy here ends up having Mad as his lawyer after a DUI w/ Fatality. (I don't hope for the fatality, but DUI is a pretty dumbass charge anyways. How hard is it to not get in the car when you're blitzed?)

 

[muzzleblast]

Well said, AK.

What if you ever had to do something like we talked about here, with a home invader? I sure wouldn't mind Mad defending me then!

Actually AK, now that I think it over...I would rather see him as the perp on "Cops" when the officer tells him "sir, did you know the prostitute you are with is a man?" I love seeing that

For Ir0nside, theres guys like him no matter what industry you want to work in. Don't prove him wrong. Prove you right.

 

[AK]

Actually AK, now that I think it over...I would rather see him as the perp on "Cops" when the officer tells him "sir, did you know the prostitute you are with is a man?" I love seeing that

That would be infinetly better.

 

[Jeff_850]

Not to burst your bubble but... Get hired, make it through the academy, get off probation, earn a good reputation, and continue to train for SWAT and Sniper work. If you are not a cop now then you do not know SH1T about police work. Sorry but this thread is a joke. No offnse to irOnside but you sound a little young.

And thanks to the defense attorney: "And by the time I got finished with them, they both made Inspector Clouseau look like a genius. "


That is great you defend criminals. I will remember to never listen to you.

Thanks in advance for the Flaming I will receive but you guys are sad group. I won't be back.

*yawns*

 

[Jeff_850]

ironside,
14sAREGOOD is just a dickhead dont worry about him
this group isnt a sorry bunch and you shouldnt let dickheads like that discourage you from doing what you want to do
he shoudlnt be a dick to you for wanting to make a differnce in socity and wanting to protect this country
if you want to do it do it
if you have doubts about it think about it
know the risks, know the benfits, make up your mind and decide what you want to do
you and only you can make that decision
good luck

 

[SpEcTeR]

Ironside,

I'm quite familiar with EPPD and they are not small by any means. They have more officers than Houston, Tx and Houston is the Fourth largest city in the US!

Yes Houston is much larger but you have your work cut out for you due to the number of officers out there.

Another thing, El Paso is not that small as you describe it. You should travel a little more. Last I looked it had over 700K people and that was before the east side was developed, Franklin High School area was developed. Now I hear that you can't even see the desert because its covered in houses.

Point is you stand a good chance if you want it bad enough.

 

[Scatch Maroo]

Not to burst your bubble but... Get hired, make it through the academy, get off probation, earn a good reputation, and continue to train for SWAT and Sniper work. If you are not a cop now then you do not know SH1T about police work. Sorry but this thread is a joke.

No offnse to irOnside but you sound a little young.

This is only relevant to show you a flaw in law enforcement culture: there are so many officers who apply to be police officers because they lack the education/training to get a job doing something else, and so by the time they're done floating around at the age of 30, they think to themselves: "Well hey, I suppose I can join my local PD since they only require a GED or a high school diploma."

Because of this, however, these people that are much older tend to look down on younger people, ESPECIALLY when they have the foresight and motivation to set for themselves long-term goals and prove themselves capable of achieving them: such as desiring to be LE at a young age, and actually becoming one.

And thanks to the defense attorney: "And by the time I got finished with them, they both made Inspector Clouseau look like a genius. "

That is great you defend criminals. I will remember to never listen to you.

Do your job and there's not much a defense attorney can do to offend you. There is no need to despise a defense attorney if you provide the DA enough evidence to guarantee a conviction, but considering that it's your job, you shouldn't complain about having to do it.

Thanks in advance for the Flaming I will receive but you guys are sad group. I won't be back.

We don't (or at least, try) insult people here... we merely point out the flaws to everyone else so no one will repeat the same mistakes you made.

I've lectured to a few subscribers of this post on this very topic, and even posted briefly in this thread regarding it: this man is obviously an uneducated* man who has let his job become his life, and quite frankly, I think we're glad that his kind become so offended that they choose to not come around.

My advice has always been, and will always be, that if you want to become a police officer, do whatever is different during your off-time to ensure you don't end up grizzled and burned out like the rest of your colleagues.

Scatch Maroo

*I use the word education in a liberal sense, not necessarily meaning formally (i.e., accredited university): I personally know a number of university graduates who I would consider as ignorant as the man who wasted the time to post on this board.

 

[madgunsmith]

I guess I got that 14saregood guy all upset....


Anyway, maybe I can cheer him up. Very shortly, I will post something about how to shoot criminals and get away with it...

Mad