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Hey, since it looks like lots of you guys have AR's in your closets I'm gonna share one of my little fantasies. I don't have and AR style rifle but I've always thought it would be awesome to buy one and try to turn it into a PSG1 copy. I know I've seen a couple sites a few years ago where you could buy the forearm, butt stock etc. Anyone ever seen this done or have the web address of some parts brokers?

BuckSlayer
 

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I've seen the PSG-1 style pistol grips, but not any of the other parts. The buttstock could be nice....

MEL
 

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Bushmaster... along with a few other companies that revolve around the AR-15 sell the PSG style pistol grip... there was a company called "AR-15 Unlimited" that made the PSG buttstock and hand guards for the AR-15... but they went out of business in 1999.

BC
 

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re

Why not just buy an MSG-90?
 

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Because they are around $6,000 or so... and im not sure the MSG-90 (Military version of the PSG-1) is imported any more.

BC
 

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JRP3 said:
MSG 90's are illegal for civilians to own in the US.

John
Yep thats what i thought as well...

BC
 

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re

How come?
 

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It is manufactured and sold ONLY to Military / LE because the reciever is marked as "Military / LE use only". If i remember correctly... the reason for it being "Military / LE use only" is because it uses a few Automatic parts... the trigger group frame i beleive. Im not 100% sure though...

However... i do know for a fact that the MSG90 DMR (made for US Marine Spec Ops units years ago) uses the auto trigger group frame... allthough it does not have the auto sear. It also sports iron sights and a flash hider similar to the A2 "bird cage".

The most recent MSG variant that is in use with US Military SF / Spec Ops units is the MSG90A1... pretty much the same thing as the original prototype / Marine Spec Op DMR rifle MSG90 DMR... only noticable difference is the flash hider (it is capable of accepting a slide on supressor) and the buttstock is different (rubber cheek pad and buttpad).

BC
 

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The reason that is illegal is because it has a forward pin on the trigger group. The gun isn't even convertible to full auto due to how it was initially constructed. (I am sure there is some way to convert it, but not a drop in conversion as far as I know.) Having a forward pin is something the ATF has classified as being a characteristic of full auto firearms. It is really fairly stupid, but what ya gonna do?

John
 

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Ballistic_Coefficiency said:
If i remember correctly... the reason for it being "Military / LE use only" is because it uses a few Automatic parts... the trigger group frame i beleive.
JRP3 said:
The reason that is illegal is because it has a forward pin on the trigger group. Having a forward pin is something the ATF has classified as being a characteristic of full auto firearms.
Yea... the trigger group frame is capable of accepting the full auto parts (so that it is interchangable with other variants that are infantry rifles) and it has... as JRP3 noted... the forward pin in the trigger group (which is part of the full auto fire control group technically).

So... by BATFE law... the MSG-90A1 is classified as a machinegun which since 1986 have been illegal to import for civilian class 3 sales in the US. All class 3 civilian transferable weapons (Machineguns) must have been imported to the US before the import ban in 1986. This is why a class 3 transferable M-249 SAW "mini me" machineguns can sell for upwards of $75,000... and M-134 G.E. 7.62X51mm Miniguns can sell for upwards of $350,000... Full Auto AR-15's (M-16A1's mainly) can go for upwards of $7,500... there arnt many of them out there on the civilian class 3 market.

BC
 

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Well, it's hardly surprising that the government wants to cut down the number of automatic weaponry available to civillians - but banning the MSG-90 just because it is possible to illegaly convert it to full auto is a tad stupid. When I got to play with one it seemed exceptionally nice.
 

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Its not a question of if it can be illegally converted to be full auto... it is simply that it has automatic (machinengun) parts in it straight from the factory... the front pin and the automatic trigger assembly frame both count as automatic parts according to the BATFE... and there for the rifle must have been imported to the US before 1986 to be sellable in the US class 3 civilian market. There are a small hand full of class 3 MSG-90's in the US... but you have to have a class 3 FFL / Tax Stamp (machinegun license) to buy / own one.

BC
 

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One nice thing about living Michigan is, if you qualify for a CCW, there is no way the state can deny you a class 3. They call it a "curio" licence here.

I don't have much use for full auto myself, but I'm glad the option is there.

So if any of you big pocket folks want to buy an MSG-90A1 and leave it with me, you could come over and shoot whenever you want!
:lol:

-snowy
 

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Im not sure a CCW has anything to do with a Class 3 Tax Stamp...

Before i joined the Military i worked at a Class 3 Gun Store for several years.

1: Find a Class 3 FFL holder locally who can help you in all phases of the transfer (this might be somewhat difficult to find one close to you as there are not many Class 3 FFL stores). This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork... they can also help you find a transferable class 3 nfa firearm since they can get a list of the other class 3 nfa dealers. It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer (both dealers must be Class 3 FFL) if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATFE paperwork delays).

2: Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you (some times taking 3 months or more)

3: Have your local Class 3 FFL dealer help you fill out the "Form 4" paper work.

4: You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff. This is usually not a problem (in machine gun friendly states). The form 4... CLEO signature... 2 fingerprint cards... 2 pictures of yourself (wallet size) and a $200 check (one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATFE and an approved Tax Stamp returned before you may take possession of the Class 3 NFA firearm. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.

There are... if memory serves me right... 38 States that allow private ownership of Class 3 NFA firearms by private civilians who are in posession of a Class 3 Tax Stamp. All 50 states allow Class 3 FFL's for LE sales.

BC
 

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Sorry boys, but I alraedy did that one. I biult it for work and sold it about two months ago. It had a armalite national match barrel. If the customer comes back into the store I will see if I can't get him to bring it back so I can post pictures. SD
 

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You dont take pictures of all your work's final product? :?

BC
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey sniperdog, did you get all the authentic parts or just ones that looked like em? Where did you find all the parts?

BuckSlayer
 

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Yea SD, we need some pics on that one!!

On class 3 transfers time is currently running 120days plus! The best way to do it is form a LLC, average turn around time is less than 40 days. I am ready to submit the paper work as soon as the from 3 clears for a 223 can.

On subguns in the last few days there have been several LL for $5999 to $6500...........Now if you go with a Colt RR you are looking at $12,000 :shock: . The best way (cheapest) way to get full auto is the M11/9 for around $2,500.

Class 3 is for the deep pocket guys (not me)!!!
 

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As far as parts go I used replica parts for the rifle. It is not 100% exact as the psg1, but when you look at it you definitely see where I was heading with it. Now as far as why I do not take pictures of all the rifles I biuld, well cause its a job and I have biult a ton of them. I am proud of my work, but also at the same time I have no idea how to post pics on the computer. That is the reason I had SPADE post the pics of my ssg69 for me. I will try and see if I can't get pics of the rifle. SD
 
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