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cody221 said:
carbon fiber lowers? are they any good
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=28818190

are the model 1 sales complete kits minus stripped lower reveiver any good?

and lastly are ar15's difficult to put together?could i do it myself?
Ive heard bad things about the carbon fiber lowers. I have never used them though.

The model 1 kits have come highly reccomended. If you cant afford a full custom or factory rifle, then by all means.

If you can't put together an ar-15(or at least learn) then id worry about you bud. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks spade, maybe i'll buy a normal stripped receiver off gun broker or ebay, and the chromemoly varmint from model 1 looks interesting, i have never been into ar15's and then i started thinking about how much fun one would be for target shooting

but i also have to ask, what kind of problems have you heard about the carbon fiber lowers? and what really is entitled in putting one together from a kit liek the model 1 varmint?
 

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the model one kit comes with the upper completely assembled and indexed. They say headspaced but this does not exist on an ar-15. Basically you will be assembling the trigger, mag catch, selector switch and buttstock assembly. and then pinning the upper to the lower.


As to the question of the carbon fibre lowers, ive actually heard of them cracking, due to brittle materials. Now this may have been the first production run. I am not a major fan of carbon fibre on weapons. Nor polymer. I want a damn steel gun. lol
 

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carbon fiber is a great replacement for sheet metal. it is slightly stronger and ALOT lighter. however i dont believe it can handle the repaeted shock it will absorb from repeated shooting. i could be wrong here. i know alot about carbon fiber and even more about AR-15's. but i i am wrong someone please correct me. as far as putting one together from a kit. CHILDS PLAY. i swear the military loves them so much becasue of the fct that they are pretty much idiot proof. the weapon wont let you put it together wrong. if a piece doesnt fit at first then you can bet it doesnt go there. Biggest thing to remember is the Cam Pin in the bolt carrier. It is that little pin that holds the bolt in the bolt carrier. (also only fits in one direction so if it doesnt go in then turn the bolt 180 degrees) without tis Cam Pin the weapon WILL blow up in your face. other than that it is all safe and easy. if you have any questions when you get it just look up the nomenclature of the parts and post it up here and i will tell you exactly where it goes. i will need the nomenclature though. i dont know any of the slang terms just the actual nomenclature.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks guys...is there anywhere there might be a .pdf format guide to putting one together? i'm 17 and never worked on an ar, and my dad cna do just about anything to guns and would help me but hes never owned or worked on an AR, mainly bolt rifles and trap shooting shotguns
 

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depends on what kind of shooting your going to do. if you want a great ar go buy a sp1. if you want a great shooting look alike buy a bushmaster varminter. it will out shoot the sp1 by a long shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i already said what i would be doing with it-target shooting, and if i buy one it would be the model 1 varmint kit and then a stripped lower receiver

are the stag arms lower receivers good? i noticed they have good prices , selling for around $100
 

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yes cody i have it in my instuctors guide but i will find one i cant refer you to even if i have to scan my book and email it to you. i got you man just give me time to work it.
 

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I'm an AR afficionado (spelling?), and I am confident in being able to put one together quickly and easily. Myself personally, the only things I'd have a pro do are: barrel and upper reciever mating (special wrenches and alignment), front sight/gas block mounting (same reason), and scope (I just never did that before and wouldn't want it tilted). But that's just me. Buy the tools and have at it if you want. Everything else is easy. Even the fire control group is pretty easy, just a little tedious if I remember right, it's been a while. Carbon fiber lowers... I'd make sure you get good reviews before using it if you want to go that way. I'm like spade, metal dammit! The only stuff I'd really trust to be plastic or whatever is things like grips, and then it should still be good quality plastic. Stag Arms I've heard of but not much about. If you do it right, you'll be shooting as good as a lot of bolt guns. A few things to keep in mind: floated barrel, replacement trigger, "Accu-Wedge", and a flat top for the lowest scope mount you can get. I'm forgetting something, but I'm sure someone will point out whatever it is. I'd go for it, just let us know how it turns out.
 

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Hey buddy, A ar15 is a little more complicated than that there are 127 parts to the thing and if you get a few of the springs mixed up you could be in some trouble. They didn't tell you that! I have been a bushmaster ar15 armorer for sometime now and if you email me your address I will copy my school book and mail it to you. I have had alot of people try and put them together and come to me when they mess things up. If it doesn't fit don't force it and sometimes things are just out of spec. This is what I do for a living at work, so I will mail you what ever info that you need! The barrel has torque specs that in has to be in and so does the flash suppressor. Ar's are not as simple as popping a upper on a lower. Anyways email me with a address if you want a master armorer's guide. sniperdog
 

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Everyone's talking about the upper... when you buy the model 1 kit, the upper is already assembled. So it pretty much doesnt matter how you assemble the upper. ITS ALREADY BEEN DONE FOR YOU.

believe it or not you can pick up a copy of the armys m16 manual at most gun stores for 5-6 dollars... all you have to do is forget the part about the selector switch, and just install the safety.
 

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that website i put up their didnt just cover the upper. and i know what you are saying sniper dog i am an armor for m-16's and A-4's and all the small arms that we carry. i was saying that the basic groups are easiy to put together. he doesnt have to buy it piece by piece. he can get it mostly put together (which i recommend until you can learn where everything goes then upgrade later. it may be more expensive to go through the process twice but at least you will have more knowledge before you mess it up. that website i posted up there tells you pretty good info along with links to buy the parts your looking for.
 

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Since I don't know, and you lot probably do - and since I never intended to buy an AR15 to begin with - how's the Bushy XM15 lower? Reliability, fit, etc...

I've gotten a fairly decent offer, but considering the paperwork and luck needed to get the thumbs up from the authorities I'd like to know what I'm getting into.
 

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Carbon Fiber

As far as carbon fiber goes it depends on what you're comparing it to and using it for.

Carbon fiber is basically graphite and graphite is a form of pure carbon. Carbon is what is used to turn iron into steel and its also used to case harden that steel if you want it really hard.

Just like steel, you can make carbon fiber in many different hardness and flexibility levels.

I'm a welder fabricator, so I'm with all you hard steel guys, but I come from the race world so I'm forced to admit carbon fiber is lighter and potentially much stronger than steel in some applications.

Heat could potentially be the problem with an AR receiver.
As far as shock goes (and I've seen some nasty crashes) carbon fiber tends to distort, but it seldom cracks.

On a molecular level steel looks like a bunch of nails stacked on top of each other. If you ever get to look at some high quality stainless steel you can see the grain of the steel much like wood.

Set a log on its end and cut with the grain you get split wood. Steel can crack.
Carbon fiber is arranged in sort of a honey comb fashion, so it doesn't generally crack.

Also that receiver is most likely an epoxy resin that is carbon fiber reinforced.

Carbon fiber is a good alternative to sheet metal, but you generally don't use sheet metal in a rifle very much.

Most rifle parts are pre-stamped. Really nice parts are machined.

Basically, it comes down to what you prefer, since I don't think you'll be able to find the spec sheets for that receiver to compare with the spec sheets for the steel version, it is difficult to comment on which is better. Buy from reputable manufacturers and remember you generally get what you pay for.

There is a saying in the race world that generally applies to any precision machine.

"Cheap, fast and reliable... Pick two."

Switch the word "fast" with whatever it is you want a part to do.

-snowy
 

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good post snowy. by the way what are you racing???
 

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Me racing?

I don't actually race.

I generally do structural and precision fabrication (custom one off roll cages, headers, gas tanks, brackets, reinforcements, firewalls, etc).

I've worked on Drifters, Rally Cars, Dragsters, anything precision.

My last project was a 1956 Allard J5 Le Man.
It is one of only 5 known in existence.
It looks like a cross between the MK2 Palm Beach GT and the J2.

Most people generally don't even believe it exists.

I've done sheet metal fabrication for car bodies from scratch but I prefer the technical end.
It's much more interesting.

I work on anything that is challenging. I'm a fabricator and I find that racers get their heads stuck on something and that's the only way they know how to do it and means it is usaully something someone told them to do not something they actually know work through logical testing.

I don't specialize because I find it drastically limits the way a person views something.

My job is to make something that is safe, reliable and as light as possible... in that order.
I like things that haven't been done before. I like technical customs as opposed to visual custom.

Really old race cars are fun because lots of the plans and people who were originally involved with them are long gone so you have problem solve every step of the way.

Don't get me wrong, I worked on a Dodge Viper RT 10 and loved every second of it, but everything is spec. You know what you need to do, you do it in the time alloted by the blue book and you go home. You can really find the soul of an old car.

I personally don't like going fast. I love the construction of the machines, but I let someone else get behind the 400 horsepower.

I do enjoy drifting, but there is not much room for it out here in the Detroit area.

-snowy
 
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