[triggerhappy]

I've just registered here. Im only a casual varment shooter (22-250 for coyes) but plan to purchase a .308 in the future as a hobby-past time. However, I was reading a post hear and was catching winds that use of hollowpoints were against the rules of war!!!!???? What in the world! Someone please explain this. FMJ richochet more, Maime (sp?) more why would hollow point be wrong? Besides, I thought rules of war (especially after the fact the people on both sides are pulling triggers) was something talked about in history class when the kid raises his hands and says: "you mean they just line up and take turns shooting at each other?"

I have now tactical or military background, and this has REALLY caught my attention. Im hoping either I've misunderstood or there's a simple explanation.

 

[Jeff_850]

hollow points are more lethal and designed to expand in someone that causes suffering
they also say you can stab someone with a beyonet but if its stuck you have to yank it out not shoot then yank it out
so if ytou dont see the logic of something in the geneva convention dont think about it too hard some of it is just rediculas
however i sorta see what they aer saying about hollow points, no practical use for them though, would end up penetrating less and SOME semi-auto/fully auto weapons jam with them

 

[triggerhappy]

aahhhhhhh!!!!!.....the geneva convention. :wink:

thanks

 

[madgunsmith]

I don't want to be a pain in the clinton, but hollow points were banned for use in warfare as a result of the Hague Convention. Not the Geneva Convention.

I think it was back in 1909.

Mad.

 

[triggerhappy]

dang!!! and to think i felt good about remembering something in my H.S. history class!

 

[Jeff_850]

i thought they were banned by both the Geneva Convention and the Hague Accords

 

[madgunsmith]

I'm almost certain that it was the Hague Convention only. But check this out about the rules of war:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/dec99-03.htm

Mad.

 

[mele]

Oh, the laws of land warfare. Something every recuit knows... especially if you are infantry. They are interesting, but hey, we are all civil countries out there right? :roll:

Some others to think about:
No waving a white flag and when the enemy comes to take you captive ambush them.
No shooting UNARMED medics (if they are armed, they are free game)
You cannot shoot wounded enemy soldiers after the engagement (this one is kind of fuzzy to me)
You used to not be able to shoot paratroopers while flooting down on their Chute, but I believe this has changed.

There are pleny of others...

MEL

 

[Jeff_850]

well come on they are gonna wave a white flag and then try to ambush thier captors thinking they will have the element of suprise and id do the same thing if i was outnumbered and was going to die

shooting unarmed medics? so im a machine gunner i have to make sure that i fire over the medics head and at the infantryman's head? shooting the medics will hurt the morale of teh enemy soldiers too, it will also prevent casualties from being healed which prevents them from being patched up and killing more of your men and your in the head of battle are you suppose dto stop firing, see if they have a sidearm on them and then continue firing???

no shooting wounded soldiers? belive me i see no point if they are down but if they even look at theri weapon lying next to them i'd have every intention of shooting them again before they shoot me or someone on my side

paratroopers are vlunerable isnt war about taking full advantages of vulerabilties???
are you supposed to land and let them kill you???
war isnt about a fair fight

 

[Yimmy]

re

"war isnt about a fair fight"

No, but there is no reason why you should cause unwarrented suffering.

 

[subThermal]

Uh oh, I hope no one brings up the .223 round.

 

[Jeff_850]

Yimmy-
shooting medics who are on the field, if your a saw gunner you dont have time to purposely try to miss them if your spraying
shooting someone after they are wounded- if they are trying to get to a rifle or trying to get up then you are better off getting them before they get you
if they are wounded, the battle is over and they are not trying to reach for a weapon then dont shoot them

 

[Yimmy]

re

I was not saying what I would do, I simply commented that the rules of warfare are there for a reason.

I would keep shooting at any enemy I saw until they stopped moving.

 

[mele]

:lol:

You guys (everyone on the forum) crack me up sometimes!!

Hey, I'm not making the rules, I was just relaying to you what ARE the laws of land warfare that every USA soldier is expected to follow!!

Every combat medic that was attached to us in our infantry unit wore sidearms, they figured no enemy out there would NOT shoot them because they were an unarmed medic, so they figured there was no use and they better arm themselves for self preservation.

The rest of the rules, well, I'll let you guys have fun with them!

Oh, BTW, you must also treat the wounded and sick enemy and feed and take care of enemy POW's also.

MEL

 

[mele]

for the long version

https://www.doctrine.usmc.mil/signpubs/r5121a.pdf

MEL

 

[CM2k]

"The enemy are coming at us with nothing but unarmed medics!"
"Damn. We can't shoot or hit them, that's against the Hague convention. Looks like we have to retreat"

War is really as civilized as the other side makes it. If you torture their troops, they'll torture yours.

 

[muzzleblast]

Pretty complicated rules alright...I remember when my best friend was on the eve of his deployment to A'stan, looking over Canada's rules or warfare...Much the same. As Mel said, care for wounded enemies...shoot the guy, and immediately render first aid lol.

I have a question though...Today, what do medics wear to identify themselves as medics? Even if they do patch up wounded enemy and send them back into the fight, if I knew I was looking at an unarmed medic I doubt I could shoot him. But, things happen fast and how can I say until I'm in that spot. My question is, how does one know when he is looking at a medic?

As Jeff 850 said, machine gunners certainly apply here...especially when engaging targets at 300 m with iron sights lol...or a guy with an m203...uh oh...Meh, but grenade launchers are humane as long as they are not fired at unarmed medics or descending paras

 

[Jeff_850]

medics should be fair game
they patch up the wounded to bring them back into the fight
thats another guy who has the potential to kill you or your guys
besides how do i know they are unarmed?
i dont have time to look.. oh maybe there unarmed medics
i see an enemy id shoot

 

[Yimmy]

re

A question then:

If your squad were in position in a building overlooking some open ground, and the enemy assaulted your building and were beatern off, leaving a wounded man screaming in the open - an unarmed enemy ran to drag the man back to their lines for treatment; would you shoot him?

 

[muzzleblast]

Hmmm...good question Yimmy.

I guess if I was safe where I was, and I could clearly see this guy was unarmed, I would probably not shoot him. It's one thing for, say, a sniper to shoot an armed man, because even though he never knew the sniper was there and never stood a chance, the armed enemy was still a threat, and the sniper saved a life. The unarmed guy is just trying to go rescue his buddy, and maybe he'll just be back later with an AK if I don't shoot him, but it would be kinda hard to pull the trigger on someone like that, doing a pretty brave thing. I bet not everyone in the section would feel the same way though, and if someone else shot him I wouldn't complain or think it was wrong. For that guy, it was right...

Your scenario was interesting because there is a chance to see that the man is unarmed...Maybe in combat taking the time to decide if someone is a medic or not fair game could get you killed if it turns out they guy did have a weapon. It's tricky. Or maybe after spending some time fighting these guys, someone might hate them, and want to shoot as many as they can, and thats reasonable too.

I sure wouldn't expect the enemy not to shoot me if I ran out to help my wounded buddy, armed or not.