[abradley81]

I have no prior knowledge to sniper rifles. Do not own one nor have I ever shot one, which is why I am asking knowledgable users such as this forum.

My question is about silencers. In todays battlefield, are they used? For example, do insurgents in Iraq and Afganistan have silencers on their rifles?

I understand the advantage to a silencer, but what are the disadvantages and why wouldn't all rifles come with them?

Also, for those who don't use silencers, how loud are the rifles? In movies like Saving Private Ryan you could hear the guy on top the tower pretty well, would it be like that?

 

[mele]

Suppressors might be used by special operations, but the everyday line grunt sniper does not. In a battlefield, there is some use to using one, as they do reduce the report of the rifle a good amount, even with full power loads. But they are not used regularly. There are probably multiple reasons why...

MEL

 

[spade]

9/10 mostly only snipers and spec ops groups use silencers. Their generally issued when a team is going to be doing heavy firing and needs to be able to keep in contact via radio communications.

Depending on the cartridge silencers are no where near as quiet as you think they are. Most silencers generally offer 30-45 Decibles of reduction. If you understand how sound works. For every 10 decibles theres an audible double in loudness.

Also, pistols will generally be alot quiter than rifles when both are suppressed due to the fact that rifle rounds break the sound barrier causing the audible CRACK that you hear near the end of a rifle rapport. Its a minature sonic boom.

BTW, never silence a revolver, theres no point in it as theres an opening between the cylinder and the barrel. That some hollywood crap.

From what ive been told, the maintenance involved in issuing silencers to line infantry is a big deterant to your average solider getting one.

 

[sniperdog-alpha1]

My friend is a local police sniper and his 700 pss is suppressed and it is about as loud as a paintball gun going off

 

[Kaz]

Don't take this as fact, but I think when used right you can make it sound like the shot is coming from a different position than the one you're actually at, sort of like throwing your voice. Suppressors can get expensive, a lot have a fairly limited service life and shorten the service life of the barrel too, can be a pain to maintain, add wieght and size to a weapon, and typically don't last long with heavy fire. The newest ones that have been coming out over the last few years are supposed to be very good at tolerating the heat generated by sustained fire. There's even reports of them being used on belt-feds. They would be used by military ops when a silent approach is needed or the position of the shooter needs to be further concealed. Police would use them pretty much wherever they can; disturbance can be minimalized when SWAT members open up with suppressed weapons. In that case it isn't neccesarily stealth, but just saving the locals from hearing a lot of shooting. As far as sound reduction, Spade was right on going by the stuff I've read. I think that the MP5SD, or maybe it was the M9/92FS, can be so quiet the movement of the action overshadows the sound of the shot. And I've seen M9's equipped with a lock on the slide so it won't cylce. One thing that I think you'd like explained about this is in regard to the sonic boom stuff. There are loads for rifles that are subsonic, but they don't have the same performance since they are going slower. The speed of sound is typically (environment affects this) 1000 feet per second, so any load that's slower than that will not break the sound barrier. What else would you need to know? 8) We're here to help. :wink: It's been a while since I've read any supressor reviews, but I hope I gave you good info.

 

[sniperdog-alpha1]

I have shot a mp5sd at work and it is so quiet that my friend was on his cell phone talkin to his girlfriend on the phone and she could not hear it. He was also asking me what I was doing that night and I never had to raise my voice so he could hear me. Full auto suppressed rocks

 

[Kamatz]

A small correction, for every third figure on the decibel scale the sound is doubled. A typical suppressor will do some 27-33dB in reduction. 45 was either a bit optimistic - or simply fantastic. :wink: Granted, some suppressors, like B&T and KAC, can operate as wet suppressors. And that can reduce another 10dB in a best case scenario. The difference between a wet and dry Impulse IIA suppressor on my Mk23 is huge. With it dry you still get a slight riniging in the ears. Wet sounds like a extreme fart.

As for supersonic loads, the sound of the expanding gases will be heavily reduced. It's this sound you with most ease can use to find the direction of a shooter. The sound of the supersonic crack will still be there, but it is very difficult to use for locating the shooter - at least with your own, human ears.

As for reasons to why suppressors aren't used by every grunt carrying a weapon. Well, they're expensive. A good suppressor can cost as much as a decent rifle. They are bulky and heavy. On my Remmy I have a 40cm long telescopic suppressor. That mens only 10-12 cm extends beyond the muzzle, but it's stil adds a significant weight to the rifle. And weight is a problem. Alas there is no such thing as a light weight suppressor with a long service life. The sad fact is that steel is an excellent material for both tube and baffles as it's very durable and resistant to heat, and not awfully expensive - but it's heavy. Aluminium is light, fairly cheap..and it melts when you shoot with it. It's lifespan is too short to be practical to grunts as they'd burn through a suppressor with alu-baffles in less than a week. Titanium is the last and best option. Light weight, quite heat resistant - but expensive as hell.

I expect my all-steel Impulse IIA to live some 20 000 rounds since I usually shoot it wet. The alu-suppressor for my Remmy...maybe 4-5000 if I'm lucky.

 

[AK]

BTW, never silence a revolver, theres no point in it as theres an opening between the cylinder and the barrel. That some hollywood crap.

Depends on the model of revolver. The issue Russian revolver during the Great Patriotic War (Also known as WW2) had a sealed chamber. Often, a suppressor was fitted to this and it was used by Russian Naval Infantry recce teams.

Suppressor = The "silencer" itself. It's generally screwed onto the muzzle of the weapon and suppresses the noise of the shot.
Silencer = Doesn't exist.
Silenced / Suppressed = Silenced: Suppressor in use with subsonic ammunition. Suppressed: Suppressor in use with full-power ammunition.

Schemantics, yes.

 

[spade]

id really like to see how any revolver has a sealed chamber. Is impossible due to the design of the weapon, at least in my mind. Please advise.

 

[muzzleblast]

I think the Nagant was an "Automatic revolver" in some way that the cylinder had a blowback effect and an o-ring sealed the chamber

 

[AKvsAR]

I just drove by a squad of snipers today leaving the range, and they all had suppressors on the end of their M40A3's.

 

[madgunsmith]

The Russian Nagant revolver is odd but very cool. When you pull the trigger part of the cylinder actually moves forward. The result is that there is no cylinder gap.

It would be possible to silence one of these revolvers.


Mad.

 

[muzzleblast]

Ah, I understand it a lot better now. I had thought it was some sort of "automatic revolver" like the Webley Fosbery (sp?)

One method of silencing a revolver I read of somewhere was to place a "plastic bag" IN the round that contained the gas and blew out the barrel like an accordion. Don't ask, lol, thats all I remember

 

[Kaz]

Make a supressor that your whole hand and the wheelgun fit inside of. Get a box and fill it with something that will slow and cool the gasses, like steel wool, but leave enough room to fit a bag or some sort of liner for the gun and your hand to fit in. You'll need to keep the one side open enough that your hand will slide in and out easy, but not so loose that it isn't sealed. Now that won't be as effective and just going with an auto, but I bet it would work. Great for those covert ops. Dress like the UPS guy and carry this box.

 

[AK]

The Russians developed a "Silenced Round" that is generally fired from their PSS "Silent Partner" handguns. Doesn't require a suppressor. I don't fully understand it, but apparently it works very well.

 

[Scatch Maroo]

Great for those covert ops. Dress like the UPS guy and carry this box.

Where would you be performing covert ops that you need a silenced revolver--the arctic? I don't see too many UPS guys running around those parts... :-D

"You've betrayed us for the last time, Santa: we told you not to deliver presents to children in embargoed nations!"


Scatch Maroo

 

[Kaz]

Yeah, I know. It's just something I remember reading how to do and that was the example of one way to employ it. I think something was said in one of the other discussions about suppresing revolvers and I remembered it. Chances of using this tactic: slim to none at best.

 

[snowy]

"Silent" Rounds

Responding to the post about Russian silent rounds.

From what I've heard about the Russian silent rounds they have very low powder loads and are only meant for very close range.
The actual slug is almost the same size as the casing. Inside the cartridge there is some sort of convex baffle piston that does not exit the shell casing.

Here are the two parts I don't understand.
1.
This piston pushes the rectangular slug out while somehow absorbing the flash. Seems like the flash would have to go somewhere.

2. The rectangular slug forms what I have heard referred to as a "closed circuit." I have not idea what this means.

Supposedly the loudest sound heard while firing the rounds is the action of the gun recycling.
I cannot quote a credible source for this information, I've heard stories regarding this ammo from three different sources. I've only included information that was concurrent with all three stories and seemed somewhat plausible.

-snowy

 

[AK]

Yeah, that's all I've heard about those rounds as well, Snowy.

 

[snowy]

I'm expecting Scatch to make some handloaded versions for the 50 so he can avoid Governator detection.


-snowy