[truewarrior]

First, my apologies to cfroehlich7584 for sending his topic "Which pistol to buy..." in an unrelated direction.

Second, I believe that the posts were very enlightening, especially for those who have not had to make a self-defense decision. If you have not thought about what you would do or how you would react to a home invader, or to a situation where you witness someone else being threatened DO IT NOW, especially if you own a gun. You are being derelict otherwise, risking the security of family, friends, and others. Knowing how you intend to use/not use your firearm in any situation is part of responsible gun ownership. There are several good books which I found informative/beneficial, two of them written by Masaad Ayoob. Also, the magazine Combat Handguns always contains personal accounts of self-defense situations.

Third (and most important), self defense is a PERSONAL decision. Despite the enthusiasm some members show for the use of deadly force, I do not think any of them would find pleasure in taking a life. Each of us must face the consequences of our decisions.

Finally, I purposely did not elaborate on my specific situation in the other topic becuase it was not relevant. There are so many important details to the story I could write a several page account of what happened. Again, self defense is a personal decision to which a general or blanket scrutiny cannot be applied. Make YOUR decision and be prepared to live with it.

-tw

 

[FLEA]

!

Good post TrueWarrior:

I don't know what part of England Yimmy lives in but I can tell it must be nice....he said "The chance of the intruder being armed with a firearm is 0"

Must be nice.....here the stats are scary. Around 70 percent of thives are armed and 60 percent are on some type of drug. Thats a huge percent of mind altered gun carring criminals that might some day find thier way into your house.

I say about 90 percent of law enforement personnel would tell you to shoot your home invader.....if you don't believe me go to a police station and ask....the reason for this is simple.....any cop would rather fill out the paperwork on the burglar you shot then spend weeks trying to find the guy who killed you in your own home.

Like you said its all a personnal choice you will have to live with.

JOKE:

Liberal, Conservative and Texan Answers Question:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges.

You are carrying a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?

Liberal Answer:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Glock have an appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun and what kind of message does this send to society and my children? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try to come to a conclusion.

Conservative Answer:

BANG!

Texan's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds of reloading).

Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?"

Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click.

Daughter: "Nice group, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips?"

What catagory are you????

 

[subThermal]

From Texas, like Texas, wont move away from Texas. So that leaves the Texas viewpoint. Which is the right one.

Taking a life VS. saving your own is a no-brainer. Now, you might not enjoy the expirence (those that do, are typically intitutionalized), but you will feel relief for still being, I dunno, alive.

It's all about survival. End of subject.

 

[badshot]

I have 4 clips. LOL I am a Texan and proud of it.

This also didn't possibly happen in Texas. We know not to take a knife to a gun fight. :lol: I seriously hope you can see some humor in my answer.

 

[Jeff_850]

good post and yes i must appologize to cfroehlich7584 for going off topic
you are absolutely right about not ever wanting to kill anyone... im sure everyone else never wants ot have to use thier guns in self defence just many im srue are prepared to if thier life depends on it... if its your or them ive made up my mind alrady its not going to be me
there is nothing cool or macho about killing someone period
this is the real world you dont get a few lives, if you shoot someone thier hit points dont fall...
dead is dead...
if its a home invader i would automatically assume them as hostile as they have broken in and have committed a hostile act and would likely comit another hostile and violent act...
in public you cant go around shooting people... you MUST make sure that they are a threat and then decide what kind of force to use... that would likley be shooting them in the center of mass until they fall if i had a carry permit and they charged me with a knife but if i didnt think i had to shoot i woudlnt
as far as the joke that FLEA posted: im a conservative (republican too)... just if i need a second shot ill take it... wont empty into them like a Texan would heh
badshot: lol

 

[Yimmy]

re

I realise your all crazy about guns and all; but would you feel better going down the road with a gun in your pocket, or going down the road where you know that nobody has a gun in their pocket (aka England).

And I don't mean to sound like some tree hugging hippy in my saying before that it is cowardly to point a gun at an un-armed intruder, I am very much pro gun.

I would love it if I could own a Steyr 1904 manlicher in 7.92mm, a double rifle in .600NE and a Martini-Henry style single shot battle rifle in .465 H&H...

However living in the UK I know that nobody is driving down the road with an AR15 in their lap!

As I said in the other thread though, sorry if I was being offensive, for the last 3 days I have been arguing with a group of Americans on a different forum, and it got my hackles up hearing about how "We saved ur asses 2ice and kicked ur asses in dat war we won and were the best in the world and everyone wants to live here and your a punk who should have respect for your elders yadda yadda yadda"...

er.... sorry... hackles are going down now.

 

[morpheus]

Re: re

I realise your all crazy about guns and all; but would you feel better going down the road with a gun in your pocket, or going down the road where you know that nobody has a gun in their pocket (aka England).

I think I speak on behalf of many people on these forums (hopefully). Yes we love guns, but we in no way want to break the law. It just happens that our hobby and interests are into guns, guns that could wound and kill people. But thats no different that driving down that road. You could just as easly kill someone in a car as with a gun. And I'm sure we would want to go to England and carry a pistol around. That would be very hard to do in the first place, and then your breaking the law. I hope I made my point without sounding like an idiot.

 

[subThermal]

The point isnt wether a law abiding citizen legal owns and has a license to carry a gun here. It is about criminals having them regardless of laws.

England is not 100% safe from firearms, to think otherwise is niave. But also, what does that say about burglers (I do not know local english law). I'd rather rob an unarmed house than a house filled with Texans.

As I stated before, a weapons is nothing more than increasing your chances of survival if a bad situation comes up. I used to teach martial arts locally, a knife fight isn't fun, and is really no less dangerous than a gun fight. If you want to kill someone (an aggressor) a knife is no less deadly than a gun. Period.

 

[badshot]

Guys,

I have been to London and the surrounding area. I was there 5 minutes and dang near got run over 3 times by those crazy cabbies. They drive on the wrong side of the street over there. :lol:

No offense meant in any way Yimmy. I had fun riding with those crazy cabbies while I was there. I do look forward to going back to London some day and finish seeing the things I didn't have time for. My best memory of being there was at Buckingham Palace at the changing of the guard. I was standing there in the crowd watching and taking in all the sights and I feel this little hand go into my left rear pocket of my Wranglers. I clinched up and caught the kids hand in my pocket and turned where he couldnt get it out and I looked him in the eyes and said (in my best south Texas southern drawl) "Boy, you're really beginning to piss me off". His eyes got about as big around as dinner plates and he got his hand out of my pocket and took of like he had been shot out of a gun and disappeared. I think the funny part about it was he was probably about 12 and I was 18. Then to hear my good ole south texas drawl I bet I scared him pretty good.

 

[Jeff_850]

id rather have and carry guns (when i get my CCW permit) as subThermal said well it is increacing your chances of survival in a bad situation and a knife is just as dangerous i can agree with that

 

[badshot]

I would rather carry every day and never need it than to need it once and not have it.

 

[Jeff_850]

I would rather carry every day and never need it than to need it once and not have it.

well said i dont think i could have said it better

 

[cody221]

that the way i feel to bad shot, even though i dont own pistols because i am 16, i keep an open box of .300 savage shells on my nightstand and the old lever is sitting in the corner beside that

 

[badshot]

Cody,

I am not an expert in this field but when your talking about home defense your talking about engaging an intruder in what will be measured in feet not yards. That 300 savage is alot of bullet moving very fast. It will penetrate several walls (even if it hits a 2x4 stud). You dont want mom or dad or baby sis to get hit by that bullet. If that is all you have then that that is all you have. But if you have a shotgun that would be a better choice and load it with light bird shot. At close range its a meat grinder but it wont penetrate walls as much. Just my opinion though, lets hope we never have to deal with an intruder. I have a Winchester Defender and would most likely go with that before I go with my HK.

 

[cody221]

i do have 2 shotguns but if someone broke in well my door is just a wall and outside on other side

i have 3 bows of heavy trap loads in my room too, 1 1/8 oz. 8 shot, 19 grains of 700x

 

[badshot]

Cody,

Those 8 shot trap loads would make a really nasty hole in something at a close range of a few feet. I got tree'd by a Javelina once while I was walking around my deer lease and I carry a shotgun with dove loads for rattlesnakes. I popped that javelina and dropped it on the spot. It was about 5 feet away and made a real nasty entry and no exit. That means it took and stopped the full blow of the shotshell. That had to not be good inside for the javelina. It is also very effective on rattlesnakes too.

For those that don't know what a javelina is here is a link. It is also called a collared peccary. http://www.desertusa.com/magnov97/nov_p ... lpecc.html

 

[Jeff_850]

Badshot:
ugly mother...
might look even uglier after you shot it

Cody:
id use the shotgun for home defence the .300 savage is gonna go through a lot... probably every wall in your house and neighbor's house

 

[cody221]

lol ok, well my trap over-under is now sitting beside my bed, with 2 boxes of loads on my nightstandm and the savage is in a case all wiped with oil in the corner

 

[Ryan E.]

I am all for the use of deadly force in home defence if need be but here is something to think about (true story).

A teenager sneaks out of the house to go to a party with his friends. Upon returning home, he realizes he forgot his house key. Not wanting to wake up his parents (his old man being an avid gun collector) he opts to climb through a window. However, the only open window is to his parents’ room. His mother heard the ‘intruder’ and quickly grabbed her stun gun. As his leg hit the floor, she lunged at him hitting him squarely between the legs with 90,000 volts of electricity applied directly to the twins. Lucky for him his old man didn’t hear him first, who would have responded with a S&W.

On second thought, the S&W may have been less painful.

 

[Zaitsev]

But if you have a shotgun that would be a better choice and load it with light bird shot.

ok i say ia shot gun would be good but why not my 12 gauge Turkey xxx choke and turkey loads.....Really tight pattern. LOL