[muzzleblast]

Hey all,

I was thinkin how there are a lot of different people from lots of different countries here...Does anyone at home think there is anything that might force them to someday have to use any of their gear? and what would they choose? I'd like to hear about issues in other parts of the world. If you're from some countries, you're probably already using your tactical rifle

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an extremist or saying "I wanna take on my Govt" or something like that, I mean real problems...Like riots or natural disasters.

Here at least, there was a mammoth flood once, but that was before my time...And theres a whole nasty "Quebec separation" feeling that did lead to terrorism in the 70's...Or what about zombies? :twisted: kidding.

I would go with my SKS simply because its what I have more ammo for, and try to stock up on 300 WM ammo fast.

Hope no one thinks thats a kooky question, or muzzleblast is posting from LA-LA land...I never really expect it to happen.

 

[Jeff_850]

riots can happen anywhere
social order can decay... looting, rioting etc
better be prepared than not be prepared

 

[Drew]

I want someone to break into my house :twisted:

No, seriously though. When I went hunting in the desert with a friend on our way there some dudes stole a brand new Tahoe and got it stuck in the desert the car was still running the steering wheel stripped they weren't far.(this is a frequent stop for car jacks) Weren't worried though we were definetly packing

Anyways we met up with a friend who left at around 8:30pm and said he would come back but he had to work in the morning, I didn't think he would come back and by 11:00pm he was still gone. So at around 11:15pm we see two vehicles in the distance coming our way, our friend was in one car so I didn't think this was him and being out in the middle of nowhere, trust me nobody would have known if we were dead. So we got a lettle blood rushing through our body and I pulled out my mini-14 and stood behind the truck. When they passed us it was our friend and he brought another person. I was very glad to see him but I can honestly say that was the closest I have come to shooting at somebody.

 

[caver101]

Muzzleblast, your not in la-la land.

In the S.E. US we are long over due for a monster earthquake ( I mean realy big). What happens when there is no order? Looting, stealing.....and all of that crap. When the first looter hits the ground the rest will get the idea that this is not the house to enter. Now, I never want this to happen but if some nasty natural disaster did happen I want to be prepared.

Oak Ridge, TN is just up the road a bit (nuk. power plant) thank God that I am out of the blast zone!!

Just below my house is the deepest lake (manmade) East of the Mississippi River. 427' +/- deep, now that could take out of bunch of houses!!

No I am not worried about an invasion (ie movie Red Dawn)

I like to get out, way out, on the weekends and do a little caving (ie: caver101 :roll: ) There has been several times that we have been in the same situation as Drew. Most of the areas we cave are very very remote. (The move Deliverance was filmed in this area :shock: ) It has been as helpless as lost coon hunters wandering into camp at 3 in the morning or walking into someones small private "garden". The ones that worry me are the drunk/high locals at 3 in the morning on ATV's or 4x4's running through camp tring to steel your adult beverages, trucks and yes even your tent. Funny thing how the cold barrel of a Glock will sober a drunk every time, sometimes you can just invite them over for a beer and they warm right up and will leave you alone all night. Or drug deals going down. I would rather stay out of those situations.

Always be prepared, no matter where you are!!

 

[Jeff_850]

hell mischeif night and halloween night there are a lot of idiot teens who think its acceptable to break windows and sometimes rob houses and mug people and social order is known to decay here and no one does much about it
i really dont care if they get drunk... hell im under aged and i drink once in a while
i dont care if they get loud
i do care when they start destroying property
last year an idiot broke a few windows of houses he was going by, including my own with rocks and thought he got away, i followed him and maintained a good distance... when there was no one around i tought him a little lesson he wont forget any time soon

 

[madgunsmith]

I think that an SKS would be a rather handy piece for solving those rather distressing social interactions....

But the key thing here is to have a gun and to know how to use it.
One should also have lots of ammo on hand.

And I might suggest the venerable 1894 Winchester .30-30 as a social rifle. It is handy, relatively light weight. flat and it fires a decisive cartridge. And this kind of rifle does not offend the rabbit people. (At least not too much that is) In skilled hands it is a very serious problem-solver.

And of course you also might want to consider the ancient Lee Enfield rifle. If you are lucky you might find one of the "jungle carbines". I like to load mine with 123 grain Hornady bullets. These are the same slugs that are used in the AK. And in my Lee Enfield, I can exceed the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm and the recoil is mild. Now that would be a serious piece if push ever came to shove.

The key thing is that you do not need to spend a fortune in order to protect yourself. There are a number of effective affordable firearms available and you need not go broke buying something fancy.

Finally, I have one more thing to say. Shotguns.


Mad.

 

[mele]

Finally, I have one more thing to say. Shotguns.

Agreed.

Remington 870
Mossberg 500 or 590
Winchester 1300.

These are about $200-$300, can be had with 8+ round tubes. Load them with birdshot if you need to worry about little ones in the rooms next door (low penetration). And there is something to be said for a criminal forcing his way into a dark house, only to here the distinctive "Scheck-Scheck". Followed by "I have notified the police, and I fear you are threatening my life".

MEL

 

[muzzleblast]

Right on Mel, if all it takes is the sound of the action to end the situation peacefully, so much the better. I would want that. And as for the bird shot, I'm a firm believer that it could take the fight out of someone even out to 30 m, not point blank like some people say. Too bad the only scattergun I have right now is a O/U haha...No "Sheck-Sheck" there Just think though, really...for all the times someone does shoot in defense, how many cases slip by where all it took was the sight of the gun, or a verbal warning?

Happy to hear so many replies too, I was honestly just curious about different regions, and more importantly, suggestions on what you would rely on. Topics like this can bring "gun nut" stigma and that wasn't my intent.

I hear ya Mad, having a weapon is what counts. She might not be the hottest, but I'm bringing a girl to the dance haha. As for the Enfield, excellent choice! If I reloaded, I would try that 7.62x39 load...I forgot those are really .311 after all and not .308. I have two enfields, a No 4, and one modified and sold as a hunting rifle.

Was anyone here victim of that monster blackout along the eastern sea board last year?

Also, where I live, we might not need riots to get the weapons out. I forgot to wash the BBQ after a steak night last year and we had a black bear on the porch...

 

[madgunsmith]

Here is my .303 social rifle load:

125 grain Speer soft point, 42 grains IMR-4064, Overall length of the cartridge: 2.915"; muzzle velocity 2500 fps.

This is an accurate, powerful load. And it is mild and easy to shoot.

And in a .303 Lee-Enfield, you can cycle that bolt really quickly. I can shoot mine real fast. It almost sounds like a semi-auto. And you can charge the magazine quickly with stripper clips.


Mad

 

[Jeff_850]

AK-47s are not that expensive
great for thier money
just for home defence there is a risk of a lot of penetration
for close qtrs an 18" shotgun is probably the best
what about 00 buck? should havce no shortage of stopping power but might over penetrate too much? what about say #4 shot?

 

[Yimmy]

re

On many occasions in WWI against the BEF, especially one famous battle against the Worcester Regiment soldiers, the Germans lost the battle, claiming the reason to be the British Machine Guns, when in said instances we had none, just the soldiers advancing fireing their Enfields at 20-30 round per minute.

 

[muzzleblast]

Nice load, Mad. Is it true with common 303 brit loads the jungle gun has a fun kick? Always read such, never fired one. My full sized rifles are pussycats though.


I had read that too, Yimmy.

Isn't the aimed fire record with the SMLE something like 38 shots in one minute at a target 275 meters away or something like that? A Sgt Snoxall, I believe?

Fastest bolt action ever.

Yup Jeff, the AK would be nice, especially for one on a budget as its been said. People like to say that it rivals 30-30 winchester, but I'll believe that when I see it pushing 170 grain core lokts and dropping animals it has no business shooting at haha

#4 shot is pretty cute on waterfowl, I know that...and patterns well. Some of it will penetrate plywood at 30 m. #2 goose is another powerful enough load. In lighter buckshot, No4 Buck has 24 pellets I think, thats not bad.

Never taken anything with buckshot yet, but I have seen a deer that was killed almost instantly by two pellets of double ought, one in the chest and one in the throat. Dropped where it was shot, supposedly.

 

[morpheus]

A good gun for hunting and defense would, of course, be one that they have not made yet. If Ruger made a Mini-14 SS in 6.8 SPC I would buy that so fast.

But a Mini-14 in 6.8 SPC would make too much sense wouldn't it?

 

[Jeff_850]

A good gun for hunting and defense would, of course, be one that they have not made yet. If Ruger made a Mini-14 SS in 6.8 SPC I would buy that so fast.

But a Mini-14 in 6.8 SPC would make too much sense wouldn't it?

to my knowledge its only an AR caliber and i think the 700 LTR now
the ARs in 6.8 SPC are a good balance of firepower... 28 round mags, stopping power and controllability just might be a little high on the over penetration side
id expect teh Ruger mini 14 in 6.8mm to be the same way just different look?

 

[madgunsmith]

You don't want to fire a full house .303 from a Jungle carbine. The recoil is vicious. The jungle carbine has a little rubber butt pad, but this pad is so small that it actually magnifies the felt recoil. I would rather fire a .416 Rigby than a Jungle carbine with full-house loads. Have you ever heard of Jungle carbine thumb? If you are not careful holding the carbine, the recoil of a full house load can jam your thumb into your nose. Sounds funny, but when it happens to you the humor disappears--believe me.

Now there is something interesting about Lee-Enfields. At every gunshow you can find Lee-Enfields that some moron has "sporterized". These poor rifles are almost beyond hope. But not quite.

Here's how I like to rescue them.

Go to your local gunshow or pawn shop with a set of .303 British headspace gauges. ( Brownells no. 319-418-240; 319-418-241; 319-241=242). And when a butchered Lee-Enfield is encountered, the condition of the bore is checked together with headspace.

The seller is never offered more than $100.00. With luck one should come away with a perfectly good Lee-Enfield action.

The action is then mated with a synthetic Ram-Line stock. ( Available from Brownells for $65) The result is one tough, no-nonsense affordable rifle with rugged aperture sights.

With my previously mentioned load, we actually have a fast bolt action version of the SKS.

This is a perfect rifle for your truck. Actually for those residents of occupied territory ( California, New Jersey, New York, Mass., Maryland etc) this is a very serious defensive rifle.

But don't tell anyone that I told you so.... It is supposed to be a secret.

Finally, about the 6.8 SPC: Mel's Twedish scout rifle in 6.5x55mm is light, short and deadly. And from its 17" barrel, he can expect to send 120 grain bullets at 2600 fps or faster. He can duplicate or exceed the 6.8 SPC. I like to think of his little carbine as a bolt action CAR-15.

Mad

 

[morpheus]

id expect teh Ruger mini 14 in 6.8mm to be the same way just different look?

Yeah, but I just mentioned the Ruger Mini-14 in 6.8 because it cost a little bit less than a AR type rifle. If I could get an AR I would, but the Mini-14 is a little more cost effective.

 

[Max338]

7.62x39 penetrates flesh like crazy, it has better penetration than M80 (crap) ball.... a good social rnd would be the modern 8mm Mauser loads. kinda slow but powerful

 

[muzzleblast]

So far, I have tried only wolf HP and FMJ in my sks, and the HP seems to make uglier holes than the FMJ, I've found that a lot of the times you can actually find the jacket of a round or two actually lying on the surface of the gravel I was plinking into. I've shot it through a block of dry kindling that was about 10 inches across, but it was not hardwood and very dry. I've seen failure to penetrate 8 inch birch, wich didn't suprise me. Remington SP seems to penetrate better.

Conversely, I've put a round of Federal 180 grain Speer hot cor through 15 inches of poplar from my 300 mag...Not to be used in the house, as if it needs to be said!

8mm mauser seems to be just about a duplicate of 303 brit, with the 303 having a slight edge at least from the Federal factory specs. Not much of a step up from 30-30 Win. But, at least it has soft points.

Whoa, I didn't know a jungle gun was so brutal. I also heard about their wandering zero problems...Now I know thats just from troops flinching! lol

Good advice on saving a 303 Enfield. They usually sell here for about 75 bucks after Bubba got his hands on them. I was happy to find a No4 in original condition, only at the moment (the way it was as I bought it) it's missing a front sight lol. Have to order one this weekend. Oh, and that was the first time I had ever heard of Enfield thumb. I found out about Garand thumb the hard way. Was humourous to onlookers, not to muzzleblast.

That synthetic SMLE would be a pickup truck rifle to be reckoned with.

 

[madgunsmith]

I'm glad you mentioned the 8mm Mauser.

My favourite handload in this caliber is the 200 grain bullet with 44.0 grains of IMR-4064. Overall cartridge length is 3.200 inches. Muzzle velocity is 2400 fps.

A good low recoil social rifle load in 8mm Mauser, would be the 150 grain bullet with 44 grains of IMR-4895. Overall cartridge length is 2.898 and the muzzle velocity would be about 2400 fps.

Mad.

 

[muzzleblast]

Keep it up and I'm ordering a starter kit tonight, Mad lol