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Discussion Starter #1
As my duty pistol, I have been carrying a Glock 22 chambered for the .40 S&W cartridge. This pistol is standard issue for us and I love it. It is accurate, light, and has never jammed on me in a firefight. I have been carrying this pistol for about 3 years and am looking into carrying a different weapon. The Bureau has a list of approved weapons that Agents can carry. I have been looking into the Sig Sauer P226 and the Kimber TLE. The Sig is in 9mm and the Kimber is in .45 ACP. I am leaning toward the P226 because it has a higher capacity, but i know the .45 is going to have more power. I am almost fully sure I will go with the Sig, but i just wanted your guys' opinions. What do you think of these weapons.
 

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!

The kimber gets my vote.

Better grip angle and feel (for me anyway)
A easier to conceal gun (thin)
I like .45 over 9mm.

Oh yeah I don't really care for sigs....

I say go shoot them both and then make your choice.

There is a reason your HRT guys carry 1911's.
 

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+ for the .45
 

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+ for the .45. Most firefights happen at close range, and you usually fire no more than 3 rounds. Also the 9mm has had problems in the past with putting people down that are whacked out on drugs. The ..45 tends to hit harder and stop them better. Granted ammo is better for the 9mm than it used to be, but the same goes for the .45. That is my reasoning. Also good .45 mags are cheap so carrying extra ammo is not a problem. I have been carrying the glock 22 the last few years since we have no option, but I would rather have a .45. My off duty carry gun is a sig P220 in .45 BTW, so I practice what I preach. In the end if you shoot one better tha the other go with that one, since shot placement is the #1 factor.
 

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+ for the .45, and it's good to have you here FBI... unless, of course, you're investigating to one of hundreds of calls made by APK or Recoil. :wink:

Scatch Maroo
 

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Well, since everyone has an asshole, let me express mine.

Grab the Sauer. 9mm with the right ammo is fine. My Sig has NEVER failed- ever, never stove piped- ever, never failed to feed- ever. I've shot Kimbers that have, I've shot many 1911's that have done all or some of the things listed above.

I'd get a USP or Five-Seven (like my friends).

Get what you want, end of subject.
 

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+1 for the USP but get the 45, and test out the LEM trigger its really nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I work with the L.A. field office, so the Kimber would be from the guys over at LAPD S.W.A.T. I trust that they wouldn't use a gun that jams or misfires. About the USP. I like it, but am looking for something with a metal frame. The Five seveN is not cleared for carry use by Agents. I like it and I think the 5.7 round is really neat. I am going to shoot both pistols this weekend. Thanks for all the input. I may go with the .45, but I am gonna go to the FBI range and do some ballistics tests on ballistics gelatin. I can't wait to see the difference in stopping power. I like the 9mm because it has less recoil and it is a slightly faster round. But if the .45 has the stopping power that you say it has I might just switch to it. But you have to remember, we FBI are different from you military guys. You guys are trying to kill the bad guys. I don't shoot to kill unless it is self defense. We try to disable guys. I wouldn't mind incapacitating the enemy once in a while, although I would feel safer knowing that two rounds to the chest will definitively put a full size man down for the count. Thanks for all the input, I am going to the range to make my final decision this weekend. I will try some other guns out but will probably go with the Sig or the Kimber. I have to make this decision within the next week though. If i dont, I won't be able to switch for at least another three months. Agents have to qualify with their pistols, and on top of that each pistol is put through some brutal tests. I have qualifications in 2 weeks. I have qualifications in two weeks. If I don't make the choice, and I qualify with the Glock 22, I have to wait for 3 month until I get a chance to qualify with a different pistol. I could put in a request with my Supervisory Agent, but they are very rarely granted. Thanks for all of your help guys.
 

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Hey, what deptartment do you work for. :lol:
 

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Just to add a monkey wrench in, I can recommend the Sig P220 if you decide you like the .45 but want a sig. What are your choices BTW? If you lived a little closer you could shoot mine, but I am at the other end of the state.

EDIT: by choices, what will they let you carry? any restrictions?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ekaphoto: As far as departments go, I am just a Special Agent (not that it isn't the best job ever). Usually to join special departments like fugitive recovery, terrorism, organized crime etc... you have to have at least 5 years as a Special Agent under your belt. I don't quite have that yet but will soon. So I don't work for a special department.

My choices are too long to list. They range from a variety of Glocks, to Berretas and Sigs. Posting the whole list would take up a whole page. Most agents carry the standard Glock, but a few choose to carry different sidearms. It actually varies from department to department. The organized crime Agents tend to carry Berreta 92s. This is because it is a commonly used weapon by criminals and they will know how to operate it if they need to go undercover. I am honestly not sure what the restrictions are.
Thanks

-FBI
 

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.45 ACP gets my vote. Well 9mm prolly didnt work on people whacked out on drugs because they didnt get hit on the T-zone :wink: I do recommend a .40 [email protected] pistol because they are more managable then a .45 (not knocking the good ole ACP) and pack a good punch. Personally seen a ballistic gelatin test with a .40 [email protected] I sure as hell would not line up to get shot by this round!! .45 is a superior round in all aspects but high capacity magazines, but Para Ordinance is working on that with their high cap double stack 1911. However, doesnt make me wonder why the HRT teams use the .45 on a terrorist. An ACP will send these pukes to their Allah in quite a hurry.

Respectfully,
Tyler Consugar
 

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greetings FBI,
welcome to the site,

I'd go with the sig sauer. I've trained with the Sig and I can't say enough good things about it. It beyond reliable, accuracy is exellent, and cleaning is snap.
The really big features for me are the ease of recoil as well as the decocking lever.

As this will be your duty pistol I'm assuming that your sidearm cannot be modified in any way. A 45 is not a bad choice but a 9mm is much easier to controll and has greater capacity. I've shot the Kimber in question and in high stress situations I could see the 45 being an issue to controll multiple shots{ especially if you only have 2 weeks to qualify}. With only 7 rounds plus the pipe an FBI agent could run into problems with multiple targets. The 9mm has plenty of stopping power and will give you the immobilizing power you desire.

I know there are a lot of fans of the 45. I love both the 45 and 9mm. but when it comes to law enforcement 9mm is my choice for many reasons.
The biggest one is over penetration. While the 5.7 Fn would be an option it would not make a good option due to the fact that it would over penetrate flesh and bone. You really have to know where your bullets are flying because of liability issues. The 45 while offers more power dose offer more penetration which is why many departments have ruled out the 45acp. Some argure that the 9mm dose not give enough stopping power, but I can testify that anything I 've ever hit with a 9mm stayed down or was immobilized.
just a quick thought,
Cheers,
Kenshin
 

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I agree Kenshin, the 9mm will put a suspect down. I dont care how drugged up a person is, you hit that person in the right spot and its "lights out" I have a 9mm Beretta 92 and for a bone stock Beretta pistol, accept my trigger job I made, it shoots pretty damn good!! I dont know SIGS whatsoever, great firearm, but for almost the same price, you can get an HK USP that shoots almost as good, maybe a little better. But thats my two cents.

Respectfully,
Tyler Consugar
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Kenshin: Thanks. Not many people realize the liablility issues. When we go into a building there are usually innocent bystanders everywhere. If a round over penetrates and hits a civilian, I end up in deep $%#@. The .45 has a low capacity and that was my main concern. I normally deal with multiple targets and I need something that has a higher capacity. That is one of the major reasons I like the Sig. My family has a long history in the military/le. My younger brother works over at SEAL Team 1 and he loves his P226. If he trusts it, and the Bureau will let me use it, I would very much like to use one. My father always complains about how complicated all of our "new" guns are. He is former DEA and he always carried a S&W revolver. I am not to worried about how easy the Sig is to clean. I have as much time as I need to clean usually. I need it to be reliable, accurate, and controlable. I am pretty sure the Sig has all of these traits, but I really want to get out to the range this weekend and give both a try.
 

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SIG is a great gun. Like the feel of it to be hoenst. No real exposure but its a nice piece of equipment. 9mm would be my choice next to the .40 for urabn type mulitiple engagements. I guess HRT doesnt have to worry much about using their sidearms as a primary as opposed to special agents because their primary is moslty an MP5. Specia agents primary is a handgun. THe situation always dicatates. By the way, nice to see a special agent in here FBI.

Respectfully,
Tyler Consugar
 

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Since multipal targets are the norm for you, the P226 may be the choice. Either one you decide on is an exelant choice, and you have the right idea, shoot them to see. Both are great weapons, but one may not fit your hand as well as the other. At the end of the day its your butt, not ours on the line every day with your choice.
 

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FBI, I too am in an LE situation, but as a local urban officer. Most threats we deal with are also multiple offenders, and in areas with innocents in or near the scene. We carry the USP 45 and chose it after comparing several pistols, to include 9mm,45, and 40 caliber models from SIG, HK, Smith, and Glock. We had small females, small guys, medium guys, left and right handers on the eval team, we took two solid 10hr days to play withthe guns and try to make them not work, and all did well. The HK seemed to excel with all the shooters. We found the 40s to be harder to control,(high power round in 9mm size frames)than the 45s.

We have carried 45 since going to auto pistols in 1989, but wanted to look at everything to be fair. 45 has the least over penetration of all the calibers you mentioned, 9mm tends to overpenetrate due to the high velocity, 40 is very comparible to 45, but the big ol ACP is so slow 800-900fps in standard pressure rounds that it deposits all its energy to the target. This energy dump is what causes the good knock down that 45 has the reputation for. I would highly recommend the 45 ACP for multiple targets, in an urban area, and my USP is 12 plus one capacity so that is not an issue.
 
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