Sniper & Sharpshooter Forums banner

41 - 60 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Powderman said:
Psycho:

First off, from a career NCO, and unit armorer--many times over...

You need to accomplish this IMMEDIATELY...

1. Secure enough LOCKING hardcases for ALL of your POF.
2. Head to the Arms Room, and request a serial number inventory of ALL of your POF.
3. If you have handguns that can all fit in padded containers in a locking box, that's good. If not, before you go to the Arms Room, look up and find a place where you can get a quantity of railroad (metal, serial numbered) seals.
4. INVENTORY and closely inspect EACH of your firearms, with the Arms Room Officer and Armorer present. Then, place them in the locking containers and seal each with the railroad seal.

Why?

1. Armorers and Arms Rooms have a monthly serial number inspection, where each and every item in the arms room is verified physically. This is often an excuse for some armorers to fondle, play with, dry fire or drool all over your firearms.

2. Even the senior NCO's and officers in the unit are not proof from temptation. I personally saw a PPC revolver wrecked in an arms room I was taking over--where? Fort Bliss, TX.

3. However, even the most greasy fingered gun wreckers will NOT breach a railroad seal. The seal's serial number is noted on the monthly and quarterly inventories. However, the annual is a physical inspection, meaning that the seal might have to be broken. If they are stuck in the Arms Room, they might have to be handled--however, this is usually in your presence.

Now, on to your problem...

You have to make a decision. If you want to stay in then you must obey the orders of the officers and NCO's appointed over you.

This means that if you want your firearms out of reach, you may have to find secure storage OUT OF STATE.

Fortunately, for you this is not too hard--a good friend (REALLY trusted friend, that is) living in Ruidoso, or even Alamogordo might be sufficient.

You have to make that decision, however.

And, in closing, what is the single thing that makes Commanders cringe? Congressional investigations, instituted by your US Representatives.

I'm just sayin'..... :twisted:
I havent gone the congressional investigation route yet... however i do know what youre saying as far as the arms room goes as i was an armorer before. All my weapons are safe and secure in my pelican or storm cases with locks that only i can access. The armorers are in my platoon which really dont want to be there (voluntold). I do know that i must obey the orders... unless they are immoral and/or illegal. How can this not be immoral by taking away my ability to protect my family, myself, and my property?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
Powderman said:
And, in closing, what is the single thing that makes Commanders cringe? Congressional investigations, instituted by your US Representatives.

I'm just sayin'..... :twisted:
As a former career NCO, I would say that this is the absolute worst thing you could do.

The bottom line is that, rightly or wrongly, you have been diagnosed with PTSD and are deemed a "high risk". And that means that your US Representatives will not touch that case with a ten foot pole. And when your upper chain of command finds out you went over their heads over this they are going to be pizzed, and I mean EXTREMELY PIZZED!

You will be labeled a whiney dirtbag troublemaker by your chain of command and they will stick you on every crappy detail they can think of and make your life so miserable you will blow up and do something stupid and they will kick you out, probably with a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge.

I've seen it happen many times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Psycho, i don't know what your exact situation is, but reading this it seems like it may take quite awhile to sort out. Is it possible that you can sell your firearms (like to your brother, sister, or another family member who doesn't live with you) this way at least they will be safe with family you trust and by sell i mean they will just store them till the dust settles. It seems wrong that they can take your weapons from you, deem you as a high risk, but still keep you in the military. They cant have their cake and eat it too.

Good luck with this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
archaos said:
They cant have their cake and eat it too.
Yes, they can. This is the US Army, not the civilian world.

The best chance you have in resolving this is keeping it down at Bn level. Any higher up than that, your chances will diminish quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
lonewolf said:
Powderman said:
And, in closing, what is the single thing that makes Commanders cringe? Congressional investigations, instituted by your US Representatives.

I'm just sayin'..... :twisted:
As a former career NCO, I would say that this is the absolute worst thing you could do.

The bottom line is that, rightly or wrongly, you have been diagnosed with PTSD and are deemed a "high risk". And that means that your US Representatives will not touch that case with a ten foot pole. And when your upper chain of command finds out you went over their heads over this they are going to be pizzed, and I mean EXTREMELY PIZZED!

You will be labeled a whiney dirtbag troublemaker by your chain of command and they will stick you on every crappy detail they can think of and make your life so miserable you will blow up and do something stupid and they will kick you out, probably with a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge.

I've seen it happen many times.

+1 on this. I can second the Wolf from direct experience on this one. Unfortunately, no one is lstening (reading) what he (Lone Wolf) is saying.

Good soldiers in my platoon who screwed up once in a while didn't get exposed to military justice. I took care of it. Problem children usually didn't get this level of respect. Unstable individuals were dealt with accordingly - either sympathetically or harshly, based on thier reputation, and attitude, both in combat and in garrison.

The sensitivity around Ft. Hood right now, due to recent events, does not lend any sympathy to someone who is deemed a possible threat, holding weapons on or off post. There are two sides to every story.

The UCMJ has nothing to do with the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, nor the amendments therein. All that hot air will be non value added in the chain of command grievence process. The Army is an autocracy - period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
docv_73 said:
As for the militarty having the right to search your residence, even off base. The answer for this came in another place I posted this story. I don't have the exact reg, but to paraphrase it, if you draw BAQ, BOQ, VHA or any other housing allowance of any kind, the residence it is being used for is considered an extension of the military post to which you are assigned. Also your command or it's representative has the authority to do a warrantless welfare check of your residence, to ensure you are living in a clean and safe enviornment appropriate for your health and well being. And, you are considered government property, and they have the "right" to protect that property by "whatever means necessary."
Negative. I've been involved in half a dozen welfare checks and hundreds of on and off base searches. Two completely different animals, and both require probable cause. NOBODY loses their 4th amendment rights when they join the military, not even the on-base residents. After having written hundreds of affidavits for search for on and off base, I can attest to this. Secondly, the military has every right to give someone an order to allow their residence to be viewed but only after probable cause criteria has been met and hacked off by the JA, but it's simply that, a check. You start snooping around and opening stuff up, anything found is fruit of the poisonous tree. In circumstances off base requiring additional search past the basic criteria of a check any additional search MUST be substanciated with relevant information and the proper jurisdictional criteria met. This is a warrant (some states allow further searching by social workers in instances of neglegence and children) from the proper geographical jurisdiction, and that is NOT the military for an off-base residence, ever.

You are in a tough spot. PTSD does meet the criteria for a psychological disorder. Unfortunately, the Army is a sword and not a scalpal when they deal with these matters. There is criteria for registering an individual with a psychological disorder into NCIC as not allowed to possess a firearm. It requires the individual be diagnosed as a threat to themselves or others. The Army in this case, is taking an encompassing approach to those with PTSD instead of dealing with it appropriately and assessing each individual. It's wrong, infringes on your 2nd amendment rights (contrary to others opinions in this matter, the right to own and posess a firearm has been found requiring the legal standard of an individual right), and probably violates the 6th amendment as well. It's the only failing of a democracy, wrongs take time to be righted.

I agree with Lonewolf on one thing though. It will probably hurt your career if you push too hard. With that said, IG or Congressional letters fall under the whistleblowers act and any retrobution based on either of those two actions result in command ending actions for your supervisors/commanders. I was involved in two of these cases. The acts of retrobution; downgraded enlisted progress reports in both cases after an IG complaint was legitimately filed, ended in supervisors losing a lot more than stripes. Never the less, the anomosity for the individuals and their command structure remained afterward.

Ultimately, you will have to make the decision as to which is the best path to take in an attempt to resolve this situation, or decide to ride it out and see if your command does right by you.

Special Agent (Ret) Sean Myhre
AFOSI, USAF
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
306 Posts
The sensitivity around Ft. Hood right now, due to recent events, does not lend any sympathy to someone who is deemed a possible threat, holding weapons on or off post. There are two sides to every story.
Guys, Major Hasan had nothing to do with PTSD. He hadn't deployed. There was no combat trauma involved.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=115137
At a conference, according to Lee, Hasan said Muslims should stand up and "fight against the aggressors."

Lee said that at first, he and his colleagues thought Hasan meant that Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan should join forces with the U.S.

But, based on other comments Hasan made, it became clear he was encouraging Muslims to resist U.S. forces, Lee said.

Hasan told colleagues the U.S. should not be in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Lee, and he expressed happiness about the shooting of two soldiers by a Muslim convert outside an Arkansas recruiting center in June.
There may be examples of guys with post-combat trauma doing terrible things (though the fellow whose dad has worked with them for nearly 30 years says that's very rare), but the Ft. Hood massacre is not it.

Talking about the real reasons certain elements so distrust our veterans ventures into politics, so maybe I won't.

But this stuff is not a reaction, not even an overreaction, to Ft. Hood. That would involve some kind of change in rules regarding Muslim soldiers. (Not advocating a change in rules based on religion, just saying that's what's tied to the incident that keeps being mentioned.) This stuff just uses the Ft. Hood massacre as an excuse for what some want to do anyway.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,509 Posts
I've sticky'd this thread, as this seems to be an is that can/could affect a number of the members here. Psycho, please do keep us posted on this, I hope it all gets resolved for you in a timely manner.

-matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter #50
Just a little update, i got the call from one of my docs that ive been dealing with about this matter. He told me he spoke with my Battery Commander and that he would write a letter stating im good to get my weapons back. So ill be picking that up after lunch and we will see what the Battalion Commander does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
Great news! When you get them back, head out to the Rod and Gun, and put some downrange. The Ft. Bliss Rod and Gun Club is an excellent shooting facility. For those in the military, or retired, if you're in the El Paso area, you MUST visit it!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,509 Posts
Good to hear!!

While I tend to be one to buck the system, I think the route you took on this one served you better in terms of getting them back faster.

If nothing else it may serve to warn others, to keep their personal weapons in a secure location where they're not accessible by Command.

-matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Discussion Starter #54
TimCat said:
Can we get an update on the situation?
You can now that there is something to update! After getting the letter written, having my commander talk to the doctor, having the doctor bring something else up that he had no right to do, have my commander question me about the other concern, talking to the doctor again, talking to me again, talking to the first sergeant... all over the past 2 weeks. I finally got my weapons back with a "safety pledge".

Im really glad the commander decided to go this route as id done a lot more checking with regulations and what not and had a "Request for Redress" written and ready to hand to him should he have decided to say no. That route would have gone down the Article 138 road which i was prepaired to go as i feel i had been patient enough with this after the the requests the command has asked and felt i was just in my complaint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
Nice work Chris. Thats good going mate. Glad it worked out for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
Glad everything worked out in the end. Situations like these are just crappy, but the unfortunate form and function of Army only works in a non-negotiable environment. All who have served have had good CO's and bad CO's. The knee jerk reactions that run rampant in the military are very annoying about 95% of the time. Like most CO's I have known he did the right thing ... just had to make sure his a$$ was sufficently covered from all avenues of approach first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
That is great that you got back what was yours the entire time. It sucks that you had to be put through this, but I am glad someone else is not enjoying your TacOps instead of you. Take care.
 
41 - 60 of 69 Posts
Top