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Discussion Starter #1
Thre results are coming in and perhaps it is a good idea to post them in one convenient thread:

Dust_Remover: (Branden)

43.0 grains IMR-4064, 168 grain Sierra MK, 2.800" COL, Hornady match brass: .75 MOA

43.5 grains IMR-4064, 168 grain Sierra MK, 2.800" COL, Hornady match brass: .5 MOA

Rob01

41.5 grains IMR-4895, 168 grain Sierra MK, 2.800" COL, Winchester case, sub .5 MOA Muzzle velocity: 2655 fps.
 

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Initial results are in and they are very promising!!

LOAD: 41.0 grains H-4895, 168 grain Sierra MK, 2.800" COL, Nosler Custom brass, Remington 9-1/2 primers.

TEST RIFLES:
Winchester M70 Stealth II, 26" barrel, bedded, tuned trigger, Nikon 4.5-14

Ruger 77 Varmint, 22" barrel, Ramline stock, tuned trigger, Cabela's 6-18

Ok here are some target pictures, sorry for the poor quality:

This is the first 5-shot group shot with my Winchester:

The top right shot was my cold-bore shot, with the remaining 4 falling into the raggedy hole below.
Measuring it up, the 4-shot bunch measures a nice .710" extreme spread, which puts it in at a very nice .402" grouping :shock: Even including the cold-bore flyer, this load performed well giving a 1.340" extreme spread, which gives us a 1.032" grouping. My first loading of this load gave minute of angle performance out of a cold bore, I couldn't be happier.

Here is the only 5-shot group fired with my cousin's Ruger 77:

It's a bad picture, but the load also performed well in his rifle, with a cold-bore flyer to the top-right. The 4-shot hole to the lower left measures an extreme spread of .540", giving us a grouping of .232" :shock: Equally as impressive is the grouping of the 5-shot group as a whole which from a 1.000" extreme spread gives a grouping of .692" .

Our shooting was cut short by bad storms up here, but I got a great impression of the potential of this load. Since there are no signs whatsoever I may work up my load to 41.5gr like Rob01's load which worked well for him. Bottom line is that I am VERY happy with this combination and will be loading a great many loads using this same combination for in my rifle and in my cousin's which seems to like the taste of it as well.

I also picked up some IMR 4064 today after work and will be loading up some rounds with that tomorrow, I will advise when I have some results on how it performs for me. Also, the Remington 9-1/2 primers worked well for me which is promising since the Federal 210M's are few and far-between here lately.

-matt
 

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-Fresh Winchester Brass
-Winny Large Rifle Primers
-168 amax/ CT Ballistic Tip
-44gr RE-15
-2.8" OAL

.5-.75moa from custom losok 700


dom
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Rob01 sent me his match loads using the 175 Sierra MatchKing and the 178 grain AMAX. Now both these loads are qute warm. So do not copy them without first reducting the charge by several grains and then working your way up using safe reloading practises.

Load 1.
175 grain Sierra Match King
Black Hills (Win) brass
45.0 grains Varget
2.810" Overall length
210M primer


Load 2
178 grain AMAX
Black Hills (Win) brass
45.2 grains Varget
210M primer
loaded .005 off the lands.

NOTE: DO NOT LOAD .005 OFF THE LANDS UNLESS YOU ARE AN EXPERIENCED HANDLOADER AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. LOAD NO 2 IS A HIGH PRECISION LOAD THAT REQUIRES SPECIALIZED TOOLS NEEDED TO MEASURE THE THROAT OF YOUR CHAMBER. (SUCH TOOLS ARE IN THE SINCLAIR CATALOG.

The 175 grain bullet is a better long range performer than the 168 grain bullet. But the Federal Match 168 grain load is such a known standard that I thought we should copy it. In addition, the 168 grain Sierra bullet is available almost everywhere.

But Rob's loads represent the cutting edge of current match rifle loads. And that's why they are gratefully posted here.


Mad.
 

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thanks for mentioning yardage Rob01, I think that should be a standard component of the report. Groupings of ten @ 300, 500, or 700yds mean a lot more to me than a three shot group at 100 yds.
 

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stiffler said:
Groupings of ten @ 300, 500, or 700yds mean a lot more to me than a three shot group at 100 yds.
Correct, but as a standard 100 yards is all a lot of people have access to at their range and it usually gives a pretty good indication of the quality of the load. Longer ranges are better, but 100 yards is adequate. I shoot 5-shot groups for load testing, sometimes 10-shot groups, it depends on how much of that load I have available at the time.

-matt
 

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Actually, 100 yards/meters is probably a better test as there is minimal effect of environment variables like wind. When you go longer ranges, you don't know if its the ammo not performing well, or the wind, humidity, temperature, etc.

MEL
 

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mele said:
Actually, 100 yards/meters is probably a better test as there is minimal effect of environment variables like wind. When you go longer ranges, you don't know if its the ammo not performing well, or the wind, humidity, temperature, etc.

MEL
That's very true, I never thought of that :idea:

-matt
 

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I wish I had access to the 1000 yard underground tunnel range that is about 25 minutes from my house at Lake City Ammo Factory. Been up there several time to deliver stuff to contractors, and I hear them testing ammo from time to time, but I don't know where the range is at. If I had access to that that would be the best method of testing handloads. You can lock the gun in a vice, and take all the external factors out like the wind, and trigger squeeze.

Branden
 

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Trying to duplicate the Black Hills Match .308 load.

The group below was fired on Christmas Day, 2007 in 50 degree (F) weather, no wind, at 100 yards, from a bench off a Caldwell Deadshot front shooting bag and a gym sock with a pound of lentils in it at the rear.

Savage FP10 with 20" bull barrel, Bell & Carlson Medalist tactical stock, Mueller 4-16x50 AO scope on TPS base & rings.

Once fired BHA brass (I understand BH uses Winchester brass), Winchester LR primers, Sierra Match King 168 gr. BTHP's loaded over 43.5 grains IMR4064, to 2.800" COL. Ammo loaded using a Lee Classic Cast Press, and Lee Deluxe die kit, including their Factory Crimp Die.

 

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That's a nice group!! I need to get back out to the range and do some more shooting. Range should be almost empty now giving me the place to myself.

Branden
 

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JohnCollins said:
Sierra Match King 168 gr. BTHP's loaded over 43.5 grains IMR4064, to 2.800" COL.
How do your pressure signs look with 43.5 grains of IMR 4064? My pressure signs were all okay with it, but it was a little hot for my Winchester and groups settled down when I lightened it up a bit, I'll have to check my load book to see where I was at.

Nice shooting BTW 8)

-matt
 

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Matt,

Thanks!

I don't know exactly what pressure signs are. The spent brass looks fine, and the primers aren't mashed or anything.

I didn't bring the chrony out today, like I wanted. Should I be worried about 43.5 grains? It's well below max published loads, and probably pretty close to factory.

I wish I knew what pressure signs to look for.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Pressure Signs:

1. Hard or sticky extraction;
2. Flattened primers.
3. Excessive casehead expanision.

Take a look at your fired primers. The edges of the fired primer should still be round. If you reload cases that have been fired with excessive pressures, sometimes when you prime the case, you can feel a sloppy primer pocket. If you ever feel a sloppy primer pocket, retire the case and reduce your load slightly.


Please post a picture of your fired primers. And take a look inside your loading manual. Inside you should be able to find pictures of flattened primers, etc.

Mad
 

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Ok, so these weren't match bullets, but they were shot with Nosler Accubonds which have a high BC for a hunting bullet. My rifle is a hunting rifle and that's what its used for. Specs: Ruger M77 MKII, 22" sporter, trigger tuned to 2 lbs, bbl floated, action glassed, Burris rings, Swift Premiere MD 4.5-14x44 (doesn't track worth a dang on CFs, but works great for rimfires!).

Let's face it, if you're in a scenario, you're going to load whatever you have on hand. I hunt with .308" bore, but I do most of my target shooting with 6mm and 6.5mm. Anyway, here are the results with my my rifle and this years load development.

165 gr. Nosler AB
Win once fired brass
Fed 215
44.5 gr RL15





Last years loads:

165 Hornady SST/ 165 gr. Nosler Partition (don't remember which bullet for that particular group, they both shot about the same, but the SST has a much better BC).
Fed GMM brass, once fired
Fed 210 M
44.0 gr. RL15



The rifle before switching to the Burris rings:



 

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JohnCollins said:
Matt,
Thanks!

I don't know exactly what pressure signs are. The spent brass looks fine, and the primers aren't mashed or anything.

I didn't bring the chrony out today, like I wanted. Should I be worried about 43.5 grains? It's well below max published loads, and probably pretty close to factory.

I wish I knew what pressure signs to look for.
Mad's advice should give you an idea of what to look for as he's more experienced than I. In my rifle the pressure signs were fine, but it really barked and when I pulled back my load the groups settled down nicely. The load you've got is probably alright, and judging from the groups you posted it shoots just fine as well 8) My load book is up at my folks' place with all my reloading equip, so when I head up there this weekend I'll let you know where I was at.

The Gold Medal Match round I pulled apart had 43.2 grains of powder in it, and I've had multiple reports that the powder used in GMM is IMR 4064, so I would imagine your load is pretty close.

-matt
 

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Well, they extracted easily at the range. Here is the photo. I'm not sure what to look for, but they look normal to me. They are still seated just below or at flush with the back of the case and do not appear smashed. I can still see a bit of rounding over around the edge of the primer cup. These have now been reloaded once, fired twice.

I found out Black Hills uses Winchester Brass, and someone else posted these may have just a smidgeon more internal volume than Federal brass. And 43.5 grains is right in the middle of the range from the IMR data pages (41.5-45.9 grs.):

Cartridge: 308 Winchester
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maximum Loads
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Order BW Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 41.5 2518 43,800 PSI 45.9C 2766 58,800 PSI

Considering how they shoot, and your data for the Federal GMM, I should be OK with this load??

 
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