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Discussion Starter #1
I am curious to hear if anyone is loading the ELD-X 178 grain in a Remington 700. I started this mind numbing journey a couple of weeks ago. I am using CFE 223 @ 45 grains--COAL is 2.800--BTO is 2.133. After various attempts with Varget (which done well with 185 VLD), I could not get any better than 2 MOA at 100 yards. Finally, (again, after several attempts) I shot a 3 shot group of 0.605 with the CFE 223. The extremely long throat along with the length of magazine capacity make it a little difficult to go much above SAMMI length. I am curious what others are doing with the ELD-X 178's in the Rem. .308.Thoughts?
 

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I am so glad that I am not the only that had trouble with the ELDXs. I have the Rem. 700 and I was using 42 gr. of Varget. I could never get it to group very well. I did not know you could use CFE 223 for a 308. I knew that BLC-2 can be used but I always used that for lighter 308 rounds.
The ELDXs and ELDMs shoot fine in my 300.
 

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I have a Remington 700p LTR with 20 inch heavy bbl. It shoots well with 155 to 168 grain bullets but I have to play with it to shoot the 178 grain A-Max loads. Had not been able to get the new ELD-X bullets at all to try them. My rifle has a 1:12 twist rate, and when I went to CFE223 with the 178 gr A-Max bullets, it shot cloverleaf sized groups consistently as long as the wind didnt mess with it. I used a fairly hot load of this powder before I got the groups I wanted, and have wondered if anybody with a .308 with an aftrmarket bbl with a lot less freebore jump than mine, had obtained desirable results by fine tuning the seating depth. I was not interested in seating out so far that the rounds would not work in my action so have been basically using the COAL in the Hornday manual or very close to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have been very impressed with the CFE 223 in my .308 with the ELD-x's. I haven't heard of anyone loading the 178's in the .308 and I was hoping to get some other options and advice with this combination. We'll see. I am going to try to extend my COAL by .005 and shoot another 3 shots to see if that tightens it up any.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a Remington 700p LTR with 20 inch heavy bbl. It shoots well with 155 to 168 grain bullets but I have to play with it to shoot the 178 grain A-Max loads. Had not been able to get the new ELD-X bullets at all to try them. My rifle has a 1:12 twist rate, and when I went to CFE223 with the 178 gr A-Max bullets, it shot cloverleaf sized groups consistently as long as the wind didnt mess with it. I used a fairly hot load of this powder before I got the groups I wanted, and have wondered if anybody with a .308 with an aftrmarket bbl with a lot less freebore jump than mine, had obtained desirable results by fine tuning the seating depth. I was not interested in seating out so far that the rounds would not work in my action so have been basically using the COAL in the Hornday manual or very close to it.
I have ordered 2 boxes that arrived relatively quickly through gunwerks. I had backorders from Midway and Cabela's since November. I finally canceled those when I received the email from gunwerks.
 

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You are lucky in the USA. As far as I know no eld-x bullets are available from local or online stores here in BC or Alberta, Canada so far.
one company had some 208 grain bullets but they disappeared fast and are too heavy for my .308 anyway. We are not able to buy bullets or ammo through
US retail outlets in Canada
 

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Discussion Starter #7
UPDATE!!!
I loaded 4 rounds with 44.8 grains of CFE 223, set my die to 2.133 BTO which equates to standard SAMMI OAL and shot 3 shots which grouped 0.584" center to center.
I also loaded 4 rounds with same powder at 44.8 grains then set my die to 2.170 BTO. The 4 shot group was 7/8" center to center.
To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have this kind of accuracy with two BTO's nearly 400ths different. Regardless, I am going with the 2.133 BTO because the last 2 shots hit the same hole.
 

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I found some 175 grain 7mm ELD-X bullets yesterday and plan to load them in my 7mm Remington Magnum. It liked the 162 grain A-Max as well as the SST bullets however both of those have their issues when it comes to hunting moose and elk, so I am hoping these noew bullets work out.

I have for years used Speer 160 grain Hotcor loads in this rifle. Have always dropped what I shot with no issues, had under 1 moa accuracy and great weight retention from 75 to 85 % consistently. Not too great as far as shooting any animal out far or in windy situations but for most hunting worked just fine. Hoping these new ones can do it all for me.

Still have yet to locate some 178 gran .30 caliber ELD-X bullets for the .308 I have.
 

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I haven't been able to get my hands on any of the .308 178gr bullets but I'm having some decent results from the 200gr ELD-X using 45gr PowerPro 2000mr out of my Rem 700 aac-sd 20" 1:10 twist.
 

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Hey guys,

i'm over a year late to the party but i figured i would post my recent findings with the 178 eldx bullet in my 700. maybe it might help someone. I had been using the 178 amax with 43.5 grains of varget shooting just under .800 at 100 yards. best three shot group i ever shot with this combination was .5 at 100. anyways I wanted to switch to the new 178 eldx for s's and g's. curiosity killed the cat. so i started the charge weight work up process.

gun used: remington 700 adl varmint in .308, 26" 1 in 12 twist barrel
stock: camo stock that it came with from dicks
trigger: stock remington trigger
scope: swfa ss 10x42
powder: varget @43.9 grn
Primer: cci 200
case: Federal
bullet: 178 eldx
C.O.A.L: 2.800

Like i said above i had already worked up a charge weight for the 178 grain amax and had settled on 43.5 grains of varget. Naively i thought i might be lucky enough to just swap projectiles in this recipe and get the same result... i knew i wouldn't but hoped i was the exception to the rule, anyways.... no dice... didn't group anything close to what my amax's did. so i worked up a powder charge from 42 grains up to 45 grains in .5grn increments. 42 showed promise at .800" three shot group, everything else was 1.25" and higher, but i wasn't satisfied so i did more research. unfortunately i dont know where i read it but some dude on another forum said he found an accuracy node in his gun at 43.9 grn varget. so i loaded up another charge weight test starting at 42.5grn of varget and went up in .2 grn increments up to 44.1. and sure enough i too found another accuracy node tighten things up at 43.9grn of varget, the group measured at .900" three shot group.

i haven't chronoed these loads yet... but i will. with my 178 amax i averaged 2650fps. so i will update my post when i have more accurate numbers. i have loaded up 40 more bullets with 43.9gr varget and will go out and test for groups and chronograph the shots so i can show what i am averaging for fps. hopefully this charge weight will hold moa at 2 and 3 hundred yards. interestingly enough around 44 grains is where i started noticing pressure signs with the 178 amax, some sticky bolt lifts some extractor swipes on the head of the cases. i didn't start seeing these signs with the 178 eldx until i was up around 45 grains varget. (no accuracy node up that high for me).


quick question in case someone picks up on this post.... does anyone think i would benefit from messing with different primers with this recipe? im kinda thinking i might not notice a difference until i get a new stock and a new trigger.


from everything google can find me it seems pretty pointless in a factory Remington to seat the bullet out. so i don't see myself messing with that until i decide to replace the barrel. feel free to correct me if i am wrong in that thinking as well.
 

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Man 43.9 grains sure sounds like it would be a hot load. What length are you seating those bullets at?

Personally, is stick to the lower nose and save the wear and tare on my brass.
 

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Hey guys,


i haven't chronoed these loads yet... but i will. with my 178 amax i averaged 2650fps. so i will update my post when i have more accurate numbers. i have loaded up 40 more bullets with 43.9gr varget and will go out and test for groups and chronograph the shots so i can show what i am averaging for fps. hopefully this charge weight will hold moa at 2 and 3 hundred yards. interestingly enough around 44 grains is where i started noticing pressure signs with the 178 amax, some sticky bolt lifts some extractor swipes on the head of the cases. i didn't start seeing these signs with the 178 eldx until i was up around 45 grains varget. (no accuracy node up that high for me).
Just quickly run some of those numbers through my QL software and the 2650fps for your 178 amax with 43.5gr of Varget is about right as the software is showing a MV of 2697fps at 70°F (61,149 psi). Plugging in the 178 eldx with 43.9gr of Varget at 70°F shows 2758fps (68,182 psi). And it's also showing loading density at 110.3% (assuming a total case capacity of 55.8 gr of H2O). At 45gr of Varget it shows 2820fps and 74,186psi, so at those pressures, it's not surprising to me you're seeing pressure signs.

Just thought you might find this of some interest . . . ???
 

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from everything google can find me it seems pretty pointless in a factory Remington to seat the bullet out. so i don't see myself messing with that until i decide to replace the barrel. feel free to correct me if i am wrong in that thinking as well.
Seems to me if you want to stay with these hotter loads, you can reduce the pressure some by seating them further out. But then, you'd have to re run your load ladders accordingly . . . huh?
 

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Just quickly run some of those numbers through my QL software and the 2650fps for your 178 amax with 43.5gr of Varget is about right as the software is showing a MV of 2697fps at 70°F (61,149 psi). Plugging in the 178 eldx with 43.9gr of Varget at 70°F shows 2758fps (68,182 psi). And it's also showing loading density at 110.3% (assuming a total case capacity of 55.8 gr of H2O). At 45gr of Varget it shows 2820fps and 74,186psi, so at those pressures, it's not surprising to me you're seeing pressure signs.

Just thought you might find this of some interest . . . ???

that is really interesting... ill post my actual chrono numbers as soon as i get them to compare against your numbers shown.

admit idly i am new to reloading... been doing it for 2 years now, ive reloaded about 400 .308, 150 .223 and about 200 30-30 (all single stage loading). my point being i dont feel like ive had a ton of experience reloading and shooting to have experience in brass fatigue. ive made it a point to check every piece of brass shot and track the ammount of times a piece of brass has been reloaded.

so far i have had a few of the federal cases from my .308 not chamber in my gun after being full length sized. i dont see a ring around the base close to the head but notice marks from it binding in my chamber there once i get it out (these i dont fire i pull bullet and safe powder). i dont know if this is because i need to use a base die on these or if in fact it is failing there... either way i put them aside. the cases that i see this in are federal cases that had only been fired twice... maybe i just didn't size them all the way either... i used my larry wilson guage and made sure i was bumping back the shoulder on all cases at least .003" but maybe that wasn't enough to engage my resizing die all the way? i dont think this should be from brass failure after two firings but i have read that federal brass is soft...anyways.

so far i havent seen a load "flatten" primers. i have seen cratered primers but that was from my 1894 30-30 that craters everything its fed even factory loads. i have seen the swiping on the back of the case from the ejector button and i have experienced the sticky bolt lifts so hopefully im not pushing it to far by staying below that... like i said in this case its a whole 1.1 grains below when the swipes and sticky bolts happen. as i touch these next 40 off for testing ill take note of all these things... who knows maybe ill end up back at 42 if its not safe.

i also find it interesting that there is a 100= fps jump in .4 grains. i wonder if this is due to the extra length of the eldx compressing the load more than the amax.

thanks for taking the time to figure out that info straightshooter1
 

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Seems to me if you want to stay with these hotter loads, you can reduce the pressure some by seating them further out. But then, you'd have to re run your load ladders accordingly . . . huh?
there's always something to mess with right?

i haven't settled on this charge weight yet. gonna do some more testing... right now this is all based on 3 loads with this powder charge so i cant say conclusively that this is safe in my gun. just that those three grouped better than any other in the string and showed no pressure signs. ill try to be as consise as possible when i post my findings.

ill remeasure my chamber depth again. if memory serves me right it was over 2.900 to the lands. i have read that some guys have seen results out of their rifle seating .100" out from sammi. its an option, weirdly enough even though i single load every round i shoot in this gun now i like the idea of still being able to mag feed. again thanks for posting the number wouldnt have figured out that im at 110.3% capacity.
 

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Something to consider is going to a 168. The 178 is getting to be borderline for a 12 twist. I will take a slightly lighter more accurate over a better bc less accurate any day. Not saying that the 178 won't fly but its starting to get close. Also things might get better with a trigger and stock.

I use the 168 amax same rifle but better stock and trigger. I load .010 off at 2.93 so its single shot with h4895 instead. There is a lb of varget and 4064 in the cabinet but have never used it. If the 4895 wasn't so good to me it would have been for sure. The best it has done is a .09 and has a avg of .30. This is with hornady and nosler brass. I haven't tried my lapua or federal cases with it yet. Also using cci br2 for primers and powder is close to max

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

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that is really interesting... ill post my actual chrono numbers as soon as i get them to compare against your numbers shown.

admit idly i am new to reloading... been doing it for 2 years now, ive reloaded about 400 .308, 150 .223 and about 200 30-30 (all single stage loading). my point being i dont feel like ive had a ton of experience reloading and shooting to have experience in brass fatigue. ive made it a point to check every piece of brass shot and track the ammount of times a piece of brass has been reloaded.

so far i have had a few of the federal cases from my .308 not chamber in my gun after being full length sized. i dont see a ring around the base close to the head but notice marks from it binding in my chamber there once i get it out (these i dont fire i pull bullet and safe powder). i dont know if this is because i need to use a base die on these or if in fact it is failing there... either way i put them aside. the cases that i see this in are federal cases that had only been fired twice... maybe i just didn't size them all the way either... i used my larry wilson guage and made sure i was bumping back the shoulder on all cases at least .003" but maybe that wasn't enough to engage my resizing die all the way? i dont think this should be from brass failure after two firings but i have read that federal brass is soft...anyways.
I've been using Federal brass too (Federal's brass I have from firing FGMM) for my .308. And likewise, I've hear about this brass being "soft" and so I watch the primer pockets particularly. So far, I've fired them 3X (including the original firing) and they seem in pretty good shape. I've only neck sized them so for and after measuring a sample of them to see if I need to bump the necks I find they're still OK for my rifle (an RPR) and I also chambered them to see how they might feel and were fine. So, I'm watching closely to see how far they might go. OH yeah . . . I'm not loading them as hot as the loads you've showed here, so that's going to make a difference in this regard.

so far i havent seen a load "flatten" primers. i have seen cratered primers but that was from my 1894 30-30 that craters everything its fed even factory loads. i have seen the swiping on the back of the case from the ejector button and i have experienced the sticky bolt lifts so hopefully im not pushing it to far by staying below that... like i said in this case its a whole 1.1 grains below when the swipes and sticky bolts happen. as i touch these next 40 off for testing ill take note of all these things... who knows maybe ill end up back at 42 if its not safe.

i also find it interesting that there is a 100= fps jump in .4 grains. i wonder if this is due to the extra length of the eldx compressing the load more than the amax.
Yeah, the software numbers do show an decrease in case capacity with the eldx's and I feel sure it accounts for a good part of that jump in pressure and velocity.

In my case, as I reached out to my lands with my loads I had to find a mag other that the factory one that would take a longer round. I found a single stack mag that handles a COAL of 2.892 for me just fine and with either the 168 or 175 SMK's that I use. Anything else that makes the COAL longer (like a TMK), I have to load the round individually . . . or find a different jump that works as well.
 

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there's always something to mess with right?
Oh yeah! Indeed.

i haven't settled on this charge weight yet. gonna do some more testing... right now this is all based on 3 loads with this powder charge so i cant say conclusively that this is safe in my gun. just that those three grouped better than any other in the string and showed no pressure signs. ill try to be as consise as possible when i post my findings.

ill remeasure my chamber depth again. if memory serves me right it was over 2.900 to the lands. i have read that some guys have seen results out of their rifle seating .100" out from sammi. its an option, weirdly enough even though i single load every round i shoot in this gun now i like the idea of still being able to mag feed. again thanks for posting the number wouldnt have figured out that im at 110.3% capacity.
If you continue to single load every round, you might consider going with a 2.890 COAL. That's about .010 off your lands (assuming your lands is .010 off the lands when the COAL is 2.900. Of course, one would want to use measurements for the ogive rather than COAL. Just based on COAL, if the COAL is at 2.890 for a 178 eldx using 43.9gr of Varget, the QL software shows the pressure drops from 68,182psi to 62,566psi as does the MV from 2758 fps to 2716 fps. Personally, I'd try 5 rounds to .010 from the lands with the same load to see if the grouping shows that it's staying within the node or not and if it does, I'd only use it for long range shooting (but, that's just me ;) ).
 

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Something to consider is going to a 168. The 178 is getting to be borderline for a 12 twist. I will take a slightly lighter more accurate over a better bc less accurate any day. Not saying that the 178 won't fly but its starting to get close. Also things might get better with a trigger and stock.

I use the 168 amax same rifle but better stock and trigger. I load .010 off at 2.93 so its single shot with h4895 instead. There is a lb of varget and 4064 in the cabinet but have never used it. If the 4895 wasn't so good to me it would have been for sure. The best it has done is a .09 and has a avg of .30. This is with hornady and nosler brass. I haven't tried my lapua or federal cases with it yet. Also using cci br2 for primers and powder is close to max

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I hear what your saying with the 168's. and i cant say weather or not they would be more accurate in my gun cause i haven't tested them. unfortunately this load testing business takes quite the financial toll. Part of me feels that if i do anything more to increase the accuracy of my reloads i would be putting the cart before the horse shooting on my current platform. i feel lucky to be shooting sub moa with the stock adl that i have, so trigger and stock will be purchased before i start really diving into load development. im praying my federal cases hold out till i can get this accomplished because ill have to start all over with load development when i switch to lapua brass, and once i have lapua brass ill want to anneal to maximize that investment. the thing that has sold me on varget is the lack of temperature sensativity varget has (or atleast what people report) so i have been only loading that in my .223 and .308. only varmint loads for .223... i don't really get out and shoot that much.
 
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