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Discussion Starter #1
Now listen up and pay attention. I am about to share some extremely important imformation with you. This information is absolutely vital if you have an AR-15. Now pay close attention and don't ask me any stupid questions otherwise I may bite your ankles.

First of all the AR-15 was a fantastic rifle when originally designed by Mr. Stoner. All the problems along the way were cause by slack-jawed, dopey schmoes who monkeyed around with a great design. So listen to me and let me tell you how to deschmoe your AR-15.

The AR-15 was originally desgned around IMR-3031 powder. This was the propellant originally used by Bob Hutton, the guy who invented the .223. Mr. Hutton was a friend of Eugene Stoner and that's how Hutton got involved designing the round. Mr. Hutton was also the Handloading Editor of Guns & Ammo magazine.

Automatic weapons are resonant mechanisms and the AR-15 was tuned for IMR-3031. The IMR-3031 burn rate was used to calculate the mass of the bolt and carrier together with the mass of the buffer.

Original .223 ammo was loaed with IMR-4475 which was a mass-production version of IMR-3031. And when used with IMR-4475, the AR-15 was superbly reliable. In July 1962, the AR-15 was tested in Vietnam and 80,000 rounds were fired. Over the course of firing 80,000 rounds there were no parts breakeages. A report titled "Test of ArmaLite Rifle, AR-15" was published. The report concluded that the AR-15 was "the best all-round shoulder weapon in existence"

The rifle was perfect until a change was made in the AR-15's propellant. The powder was changed from IMR-4475 to a ball powder, WC-846. Now this ball powder ruined the rifle. WC-846 contained calcium carbonate which caused fouling in the AR-15's gas-tube. Even worse, this ball powder burned at a slower rate.

Using a slower burning powder in the AR-15 created the following serious problems:

1. A higher residual chamber pressure. This created a tendency for the fired cartridge to stick in the chamber;

2. The higher residual pressure causes higher bolt velocity. The bolt wants to unlock right NOW and when combined with a sticky case, the extractor can yank the rim right off the cartridge case. This can lead to the most disasterous jam possible. Higher bolt velocity also leads to increased wear and parts started to break. As a result, Mr. Stoner's wonder-weapon became a rotten piece of Clinton.

To solve the ball powder fiasco, the Army decided to treat the symptoms and not the desease. The army tried to slow down the bolt carrier by using a new, heavier buffer. The sticky chamber problem was solved by the use of chrome plating. But the Army continued to use slower-burning ball powders.

Now if you want to deschmoe your AR-15 and to enjoy original 1962 reliability, USE THE RIGHT POWDER. USE IMR-3031 OR BENCHMARK! Don't use ball powder and don't be a schmoe!!

Read the tacked thread about loading .223 ammunition and follow all the advice contained therein. If you use this information and load your ammo with the right powder, your rifle will perk nicely.

If you use a carbine version of the AR-15, make sure that you use the right buffer. If you are using a telestock, use a 9mm buffer. The 9mm buffer is slightly heavier than a rifle buffer. Use the 9mm buffer to slow down your bolt velocity. Or you can use a fixed rifle stock and buffer.


If you have an AR-15 carbine, install a Defender D-ring around your extractor. The AR-15 carbine has a higher gas-port pressure than Stoner originally intended. And the bolt velocity is higher too. With the higher bolt velocity, the extractor is stressed and you need stronger extractor tension in order to maintain reliability. AND USE THE RIGHT POWDER!!

The Defender D-Ring offers cheap insurance for AR-15 rifles too. And as you tune your load, check the extraction pattern of your rifle. Make sure that the rounds are extracted and ejected about 8 to 10 feet from your rifle. If you use Benchmark or IMR-3031 you will find that you can achieve a remarkeable uniform ejection pattern and all of your fired cases will land in one pile. This is a very good thing. Now go to the tacked "Loading .223 ammo" thread and read it carefully.

The Defender D-ring is available from Brownells. It costs $12.95

Check out http://www.brownells.com. The Defender D-Ring can be found as part no. 741-015-003.

(The Defender D-Ring was designed by Mack Gwinn and L. James Sullivan. Take note that Mr. Sullivan was the engineer who assisted Mr. Stoner in the original AR-15 design)

So don't be a schmoe. Just listen to me.

Fluffy.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No, I am suggesting that you stop picking your ears. Women do not find waxy fingers to be attractive.

You should also wear fresh underwear. A daily change of underwear is not an unecessary extravagance. You should also trim your protruding nose hairs. Trust me on this.


Fluffy
 

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oneeyedmac said:
Stop picking ears....check
Trim nose hairs......check
Clean underwear......oops
Shootin 2/3 ain't bad if your AR runs well.
 

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I've heard great things about RL15 in the AR15.
 

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Well, Fluffy, I'm no rifle-fiddling expert, but you're making me want to tune-up my Bushmaster 16" Carbine!

Here is the direct link to the Defender D-Ring you mention. Not sure what to do with it, myself.

D-Ring

I don't know the exact model number of my carbine, but it's a plain-vanilla model. A3 flattop, fixed A2 stock, 16" heavy contour barrel, no M4 cuts. runs like a scalded dog.

Do I need a new buffer for it if I use your load and recommended powder? I'll try to figure out the D-Ring thing, and load per your instructions. I'll order dies as soon as I get my pet .45 ACP load settled down where I want it. Then it will be on to my 4th caliber reloading experience!

Fluffy's Padawan
 

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The standard carbine buffer is substantially lighter than a rifle buffer. On the other hand the 9mm buffer is slightly heavier than a standard rifle buffer.

If you use a 9mm carbine buffer, the rifle is tricked into thinking that it has a rifle buffer. The heavier buffer will slow down the bolt veloicty and this will lead to longer parts life and enhanced reliability.

The standard carbine buffer will work with the Benchmark load. But a heavier buffer is better for your carbine.

Mad.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dear Tyler:

Reloader 15 is much too slow
So just listen to me
And don't be a schmoe
You need something like 3031
So just listen to me
And you will have fun.


Fluffy
 

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madgunsmith said:
The standard carbine buffer is substantially lighter than a rifle buffer. On the other hand the 9mm buffer is slightly heavier than a standard rifle buffer.

If you use a 9mm carbine buffer, the rifle is tricked into thinking that it has a rifle buffer. The heavier buffer will slow down the bolt veloicty and this will lead to longer parts life and enhanced reliability.

The standard carbine buffer will work with the Benchmark load. But a heavier buffer is better for your carbine.

Mad.
Um. I'm still confuzzled. Can you point me to a specific buffer I should get if I use your load? Sorry for being slow. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how the buffer figures into the operation of the rifle.

The load you suggest is a good anti-personnel load, yes? I tried reading the ammo-oracle at AR-15. com ages ago, but it made my hair hurt. I'm not loading for hunting. I'm loading for zombies.

Thanks!
 

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The AR-15/M-16 was designed around a certain bolt velocity and carrier mass. The buffer helps slow down and cushion the moving bolt carrier. Without a buffer, the carrier would slam against the back of the receiver extension.

Now the current rifle buffer weighs around 5 ounces. The carbine buffer weighs less than that. Actually there are three carbine buffers and I will talk about them shortly. Now the carbine operates at a higher port pressure because the gas port is closer to the chamber. This means that every carbine has a faster bolt velocity than Stoner originally designed.

The various carbines will work with standard carbine buffers, but I fear that long term reliability may be compromised. That's why I like to outfit my carbines with a standard rifle receiver extension, buffer tube, rifle buffer and original fixed M-16 stock. My carbines run nicely with fixed rifle stocks and buffers.

If you prefer the telestock, that's fine too. But if you have a telestock, you should change the buffer. Now there are three carbine telestock buffers. The standard buffer, the H-buffer and the 9mm buffer. The standard buffer and the H-buffer are both lighter than the standard rifle buffer. Now the 9mm buffer is slightly heavier than the standard rifle buffer.

All I am saying is this: If you have an AR-15 carbine with a telestock, try to use a buffer that weighs about the same as a rifle buffer. I would use a heavier buffer with a telestock no matter what ammunition I was using.
An AR-15 carbine will work for many, many rounds with a standard buffer. However, over the long haul the rifle will last longer if the bolt velocity is reduced. And a heavier buffer is useful in slowing down and braking the bolt and carrier.

And of course if you use powder of the original burn rate, you will also slow down your bolt velocity. When the rifle is running properly, your cases should be ejected in a uniform pile about 8-10 feet away. When that happens you know that everything is working properly.

You can get a Colt 9mm carbine telestock buffer for $25 from PK Firearms. http://www.pkfirearms.com. This buffer weighs 5.2 ounces and this is slightly heavier than the full length rifle buffer. With this buffer in place, your carbine will think that you have installed a fixed length rifle stock and buffer.

Mad
 

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AR15sales.com has no more RRA lowers, and RRA hasn't shipped one in over 3 months.

Demand for entire rifles has been too high. This situation may correct itself by their upping production. . .or not. AR15sales has no idea when they might be available again.

JC
 

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FluffyTheCat said:
Dear Tyler:

Reloader 15 is much too slow
So just listen to me
And don't be a schmoe
You need something like 3031
So just listen to me
And you will have fun.


Fluffy
Checked into some of the data I'd gather over the years. Lots of it reports best accuracy in AR15s with RL15 and 65-70 gr. projectiles.

You're right for the under 65s, the best accuracy loads used something a might faster than RL15. I've got some RL10x, 4198, and IMR 3031 laying around in my basement along with a set of .223 dies I've had for a few years in anticipation of owning a .223 Rem of some sort. I've got several hundred pieces of brass laying around from various people that don't load, so I picked up some 55 gr. BKs to try until I can get to place with 55 V-Maxes in stock. I love the BlitzKings in my other rifles, but they are far too pricey for the minuscule accuracy/BC advantage.

If I could ever get my durn bbl in, I'll have a nice M4 to start loading for.
 

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Before I load a bunch or rounds, how does one ensure that his re-load will have enough energy to cycle the action.

Maybe it's simple but I just don't want to make my AR a single shot.
 

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bt 223 said:
Before I load a bunch or rounds, how does one ensure that his re-load will have enough energy to cycle the action.

Maybe it's simple but I just don't want to make my AR a single shot.
You'll have to work up a load just like you would with a bolt gun. I usually load 20-30 minimum of each load, that way I can check accuracy, and make sure that the load reliably cycles the weapon.

Rigger
 

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I have had very good luck with AA-2230C in the AR-15. It has a burn rate that is almost identical to AA-2460, and the load data can be interchanged. This stuff burns clean, and is just about the right speed for cycling the AR-15 without undo wear. And it is very cost effective. Natchez Shooters Supply had this stuff for under $60.00 for 8 pounds for a long time, but it's not avaliable anymore, at least not through them. I wish I had bought more. If your intrested, this is a cost breakdown for the 2,350 rounds I finished loading a while back. A fellow on another forum, who was intrested in reloading for his AR-15's had asked me. The brass was mixed headstamp. CCI, Remington, Winchester, Lake City, S&B, and a few others I'm forgetting. This brass was obtained from on line sources on the web. I processed it all the same. First I resized and deprimed all of it with a RCBS Small Base Sizing Die. Then I processed all of the primer pockets on my Dillon 600 Super Swage, because some of them were military with crimped primer pockets. I then trimmed all of them to uniform length on my Giraud Powered Case Trimmer. After that they went into the tumbler for several hours and received a polish with ground corn cob and Dillon Rapid Polish added to the media. The final step was to run it through my Dillon and crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They turned out very good. My total investment in this batch of .223 was:

Brass---------$20.00 total. (It was free, but I paid the shipping).

Powder-------$65.00 for 8 pounds of AA 2230C. (25.0 Gr. per load X 2,350 = 58,750 Gr. 58,750 divided by 7,000 Grains per pound = 8.39 pounds of powder total.)

Primers-------$59.38 for 2,350 primers @ $25.00 per thousand.

Bullets-------$172.21 (2,350 Winchester 55 Gr. FMJBT from Midway)

Boxes--------$52.00 for 100 boxes and trays from Midway. (Actually $26.00 because I used only 47.)

Grand Total = $342.59




By comparison the 1,000 rounds of Remington UMC FMJ in .223 pictured above cost me $371.00 delivered from Natchez. Reloading can be extremely cost effective but you must find good scources, and buy in bulk. Here are 2 very good scources for brass, bullets, and powder. Bill T.

www.gibrass.com

www.patsreloading.com
 

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Billt;

You have impressed the hell out of me! How long does it take you to go through all of that ammo?

A strong second on using narrow based dies. I had a kaboom with my AR and wasn't hurt-- with sized and trimmed mil surp. We pulled the bullets and re-weighed the charge (23 gr Varget) and concluded that we had an out of battery problem.
 

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It doesn't last very long with my wife shooting it as well. We've got a total of 5, AR-15's along with a Ruger Mini 14 and a CZ 527 LUX bolt gun in .223. A day at the range usually translates into several hundred rounds. Even though it's a plain Vanilla FMJ load, it's still quite accurate. AA-2230C is a canister grade data powder that Natchez had on sale a while back for under $60.00 for a 8 pound jug, so I bought 16 pounds of it. I wish I had bought more. It's really good powder for the .223 and the .308. It's a Ball Powder, and flows through a measure like sand through an hour glass. I've gotten into the habit of using small base sizing dies for anything I'm going to run through a semi auto. I've found it doesn't effect accuracy much, if any, and it increases reliability substantially. I also like the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I have one in most every caliber I reload for. It applies a good, firm crimp without putting any vertical stress on the case because the shellholder contacts the base of the die and only applies lateral pressure to the case when applying the crimp. With generic .223 now costing around $10.00 a box, I think you will see far more people reloading. It's gotten to the point around here that many of the local gun shops are conducting "Reloading 101" classes free of charge because of the amount of shooters that have decided to take up reloading because of the high cost of ammo. I know Dillon up in Scottsdale has had a huge surge in reloading press sales, as well as Hornady. I never thought I'd see the day when .223 cost as much or more than .30-06! Bill T.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Mr Squinty has tested my AR load. The load of 23.7 grains of Benchmark, 55 grain Hornady bullet and US military brass produces accurate results. Squinty can keep 20 shots touching at 25 meters. But this is with iron sights and a dim-witted schnook behind the buttplate.

This load has been tested in sub zero condtions and functioning is 100 percent. The load burns cleanly and it should work well for you too.

Now don't be a dope. Head to the reloading bench. Load like there is no tomorrow. The commies are here; the commies are here!!

Fluffy.
 
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