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Any info on the pistol in question?

I thought America already used the Beretta M92 and the Sig P228... why a 3rd?
 

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This isn't from personal experience (just an article) but I heard that Ruger's were really good and the reason they weren't overly popular was because they're so butt-ugly. I'm not really sure why the picked a stainless model, but oh well.
 

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These pistols come standard under the seats inside tanks and M-113's and things like that... its suppose to give armor crewmen a more compact choice than the M-3 9mm converted "grease gun" that is still found under the seats of tanks.
 

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America still uses the greese gun? hehe
 

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westpointranger said:
This isn't from personal experience (just an article) but I heard that Ruger's were really good and the reason they weren't overly popular was because they're so butt-ugly. I'm not really sure why the picked a stainless model, but oh well.
Butt ugly is right (or as Yimmi might say "it looks like a prat")! I have had several ruger pistols and only had a problem with a 45acp (heavy frame), the spring that holds the mag snaped, ruger fixed it for free, good customer service!!

ruger needs to re-do the looks of their pistols!! The old heavy frame ruger 9mm's are/were an amazingly accurate pistol! Wish I still had mine!!
 

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Yimmy said:
America still uses the greese gun? hehe
I believe the army did away with theirs a while ago, but there is probably some still hanging around. I remember seeing some that a M113 crew had, but that was about 10 years ago. The M4 (believe it or not) was originally adopted by the US Army for tank crews, they need a smaller rifle than the full size M16A2. Of course, since then, everyone else has wanted to go to the M4.

MEL
 

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Ive recently (about 5 months ago) seen Army tankers with M-3 9mm "grease guns". Personally... i think its just somthing that comes with the tank and is kept under the seat. As far as i know (or so i was told)... each new tank is delivered to the Army with four 9mm M-3 Grease Guns with 3 magazines each under the seat of each tanker... Commander... Driver... Gunner... Loader. Back in the day... the XM-177E2S (early day military CAR-15 style M-4 carbine) was issued to some tank units as a personal weapon. Now days... i see tankers with M-4A1 SOPMOD carbines just as most of the Army uses in iraq. Next time i see an Army tanker... ill just go ahead and ask him.

As far as this new pistol contract for the Army... i honestly dont understand it. There are so many M-9's out there... why not issue them? Parts, magazines, and maintainence training are not interchangable between the M-9 and Ruger... thus creating another time and logistics killing weapon. How many military armorers are familiar with the Ruger pistol they are going to issue to some one?

BC
 

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Ballistic_Coefficiency said:
As far as this new pistol contract for the Army... i honestly dont understand it. There are so many M-9's out there... why not issue them? Parts, magazines, and maintainence training are not interchangable between the M-9 and Ruger... thus creating another time and logistics killing weapon. How many military armorers are familiar with the Ruger pistol they are going to issue to some one?
Yeah, I don't get it either. The contract is for 5000 pistols, which really isn't that many, but its enough to raise an eyebrow. I wonder what they will be used for.

MEL
 

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I like the M3 greese gun, but it is not particularly effective by todays standards.

As a side note as to the "prat" reference, I never actually insulted anyone in the wording of my sentence, how people read it otherwise is not my doing.
 

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Would it surprise you guys to learn that not only is the army ordering these, but that they are giving 1911 45s to any LE agency that wants them. Seems to me that we should isssue what we have before ordering new 9mm Rugers.
 

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Maybe the M9s are breaking from the NATO pressure 9mm ammo, or perhaps Beretta can't keep up with the demand for new pistols? I know our allies who like the P-35 break a lot of them with the NATO ammo.

The gov't seems to be giving out a lot of new arms contracts at the moment, SIG pistols, RRA ARs, HS Precision and FN sniper rifles, and word has it the Marines are shopping for a new 1911.

I've shot the Ruger and Beretta 9mms, and frankly I didn't like either (they're both very sloppy). I think they chose the stainless for its corrosion resistance, since Ruger's "black" finish is standard bluing. And yes, all of Ruger's autoloaders are ugly as sin, even the new .45. They work though, and thats what counts.

I didn't realize the Army had enough 1911s left to give to anyone, wow, and I'm even more surprised that the police want them, with all of the DAO sentiment in LE. Let's hope we're seeing a comeback in single action pistols in LE.
 

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IMHO the US military should buy from US companies only. There are several reasons for this, one beig that any foreign government has the ability to cut our supply of equiptment by forbidding their company to export to us. Our out sourcing manufacturing has really hurt our ability to produce in this country. An example is the lack of armor plating for our troops in Iraq. This is inexcusable in my opinion.
 

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Bead Drawer said:
and word has it the Marines are shopping for a new 1911.
The USMC has placed orders for the Springfield Armory M-1911A1 MC (Marine Corps) Operator model ( http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- ... 1-op.shtml ) for the Battalion Reconassaince units, F.A.S.T. units, CQB Teams, and other varios Marine Special Operations units. The Marine Corps has been wanting to field the 1911A1 SOC pistol as a standard issue pistol with all its Battalion Landing Teams in each MEU... but the Marine Corps currently does not have enough in stock and it takes to long to have the armorers at quantico build the pistols up since they are busy building other more needed weapons. The pistol... if adopted... more than likely wont be the S-A MC Operator that the more specialized units have recently ordered. The Marine Corps has always fielded a 1911A1 designed pistol with MEU's... allthough not very many people in the MEU's have them. They call it the 1911 SOC pistol. Its a basic 1911A1 with a few upgrades... a wilson combat 8 round mag... match grade adjustable trigger... better sights... things like that.

My ONLY complaint about the 1911A1's that the Marine Corps is starting to issue its more specialized units... such as Force Recon, Radio Recon, Battalion Recon, F.A.S.T. (Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team) units, CQB teams, Hostage Rescue teams, SAR Teams, units like that... is that the pistol can not be used with a suppressor unless the barrel is changed out. But then again... either can the standard Beretta M-9. Im hoping that sooner or later the Marine Corps will adopt a double stack 1911 for its Special Operations units. The H&K MK-23 is double stack with a 12 round magazine and can be used with a Knights Armament suppressor. The S-A 1911 MC Operator is single stack with an 8 round mag and can not be suppressed. Untill they issue a double stack 1911 with threaded barrel for the knights armament suppressor ill stick with my H&K MK-23 and carry my 1911 as a secondary pistol.
 

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"ill stick with my H&K MK-23 and carry my 1911 as a secondary pistol."

You go around with your rifle, and two large pistols?
 

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I've heard the reason they haven't gone with a double stack 1911 is reliability issues with the magazines. A single stack will take almost any mag you stuff in it, whereas double stack 1911s often have to have each mag "tuned" and then kept very clean and not treated roughly. At least, thats what I've heard...

I'm a single stack person myself. Can't say I haven't lusted for a double stack from time to time, but I prefer the classic. Thus, my knowledge of double stacks, be them "Tactical" or space gun race, is limited.
 

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Depends on what im doing... if its a large operation... like what happened in Fallujah not to far back... or when we first went into afghanistan and iraq... yes i will carry two pistols. If we are just doing a simple small operation or on a standard patrol or somthing similar... no i wont. Like i said... it all depends on what i am doing and what spot im filling at the time. Heres a few load outs to give you an idea...
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Rifleman load out :

Rifle : M-4A3 14.5" Carbine, Selective Fire Semi-Auto/Full-Auto, Sure Fire M-910A Tactical Light/Foregrip System, Sure Fire M4-FA 30 Db Supressor, Sure Fire M-73 Picatinny Rail, Sure Fire Stand Alone Flip Up Rear Sight, Trijicon ACOG TA01NSN

Rifle Ammo : 510 rounds. 17 magazines total... 30 rounds each. (including one in the rifle) For regular every day deployment patrols and things like that we use standard M-193 55gr FMJBT ammo. For more "high speed" missions... we use MK-262 Mod1 Canellured 77gr Nosler HPBT

Pistol : H&K MK-23 with Knights Armament suppressor (not attached... keep it in my map pocket on the inside of my vest)

Pistol Ammo : 60 rounds. 5 magazines total... 12 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's... for my MK-23 and 1911.

Grenades : 4 M-67 Fragmentation Grenades. (if its a grab op i substitute frag's for flash bang's)

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Desert Rifleman load out :

Rifle : M-14

Rifle Ammo : 260 rounds M-80 Ball (147gr FMJBT), 13 magazines total (including one in the rifle)

Pistol : H&K MK-23 on right leg in drop leg holster.

Pistol Ammo : 60 rounds. 5 magazines total... 12 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's... for my MK-23.

Grenades : 2 Smoke Grenades (different colors), 2 M-67 Fragmentation Grenades.

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LRRP Operation :

Rifle : AK-M

Rifle Ammo : 330 rounds. 11 Magazines with 30 rounds each. (including one magazine in the weapon)

Pistol : Springfield Armory M-1911A1 MC Operator on right leg in drop leg holster.

Pistol Ammo : 64 rounds. 8 magazines total... 8 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's for my 1911.

Grenades : None

Extra's : 3 Extra 48 ounce water cans. (not including my camel back water pack)
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Force Team load out :

SMG : H&K MP5SD 9mm, Trijicon Reflex, H&K foregrip tactical entry light.

SMG Ammo : 300 Rounds. 10 Magazines of 30 rounds each. 3 Mags on left leg drop mag holster, 6 mags on vest, one in weapon.

Pistol : H&K MK-23 on right leg in drop leg holster with Knights Armament suppressor attached

Pistol Ammo : 60 rounds. 5 magazines total... 12 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's... for my MK-23 and 1911.

Grenades : 4 Flash Bangs, 1 Incindiary Grenade

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Force Team Point Man load out :

Shotgun : Benelli M-1014, collapsable stock, large tritium insert ghost sight's.

Shotgun Ammo (12 guage) : 125 rounds of #6 Buckshot, 15 entry rounds

Pistol : H&K MK-23 on right leg in drop leg holster.

Pistol Ammo : 60 rounds. 5 magazines total... 12 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's... for my MK-23.

Grenades : 5 Entry Charges (web charge's), 5 Flash Bangs, 1 Incindiary Grenade
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Machinegunner load out :

Urban Machinegun : MK-46 5.56X45mm SF SAW, Sure Fire M-910A Tactical Light/Foregrip, EO Tech HOLO sight.

Desert Machinegun : MK-48 7.62X51mm SF SAW, ACOG TA55A (5.5x50mm with 7.62X51mm reticle)

Machinegun Ammo - 5.56mm : 1,200 rounds. Six 200 round belt drums. (including one 200 round belt drum on weapon) Standard ammo belt... FMJBT... AP... Tracer... AP... FMJBT... FMJBT... AP... Tracer... AP... FMJBT... ect.

Machinegun Ammo - 7.62mm : 600 rounds. Six 100 round belt drums. (including one 100 round belt drum on weapon) Standard ammo belt... FMJ... AP... Tracer... AP... FMJ... FMJ... AP... Tracer... AP... FMJ...

Pistol : H&K MK-23 with Knights Armament suppressor (not attached... keep it in my map pocket on the inside of my vest)

Pistol Ammo : 60 rounds. 5 magazines total... 12 rounds each. (including one in the pistol) I allways carry Federal 165gr Hydra-Shok HP's... for my MK-23 and 1911.
 

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Bead Drawer said:
I've heard the reason they haven't gone with a double stack 1911 is reliability issues with the magazines. A single stack will take almost any mag you stuff in it, whereas double stack 1911s often have to have each mag "tuned" and then kept very clean and not treated roughly. At least, thats what I've heard...
Ive never had any problem with my double stack 1911. Im guessing if you use cheap magazines it would be a problem... but if you use cheap magazines with any pistol or style magazine im sure you would have a problem. :)
 

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Ballistic_Coefficiency, if you don't mind my asking, what rank are you? You seem to have an awful lot of choice as to what weaponry you take - over here it is far more restrictive, as in you take what you are given.
 
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