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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I'm looking at joining the Navy Shooting team, and I want to eventualy buy my own rifle, and the only guns they will let us use are the M-16, the M-1 Garrand, and the M1A(M-14).

My question to you is; which of these would you choose, and what would you do to it to turn it into a 1000 yard rifle.

Call it a $3000ish cap for gunsmithing and rifle/parts combined. Can it even be done for this price?

Josh
 

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I would choose a Garand, because its golly gee neato.

However, for Match shooting go with a M14/M1A. You are probably best to just buy a Springfield National Match M1A. After a decade or two of shooting that, you might be able to shoot better than the gun, then you can go talk to a good smith.
 

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M14 no doubt. Kick-ars caliber, proven record in reliability, high capacity, and with a match grade barrel, receiver, trigger, and ammo, it is a 1000 yard puncher. I am thinking about one myself. I will top it off with a thermal scope for a dedicated night hunting...
 

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Have you shot National match before? If so, what kind of scores do you shoot?

My reason for asking is to try to judge where you are as a shooter. Unless you are shooting Master level scores in the 94%+ range, you will not know the difference between a Springfield NM and a fully Match Conditioned rifle from the likes of Arrington or Fulton.

I honestly don't know how the Navy Team partitions there shooting time and budget between Long Range and Cross Course matches. You will NOT only be firing the long range course.

I will tell you this: in NM Cross Course: Service Rifle, you will find that the M-16A2/AR-15A2 reigns supreme. It is just plain easier to shoot good scores with the black rifle than with the 14s and Garands. It is also easier, faster, and less expensive to make the M-16/AR-15 into a real shooter.

In long range, basically none of the Service rifles are at the top of the game. Of those three, the M-14 is your best bet because of the ballistic advantages of the .308 at those ranges. My 8-twist AR-15A2 Comp Rifle will reach 1000 yards and still be supersonic. I cannot guarantee it would be at 1025 or 1050...it's that ragged an edge you ride if you choose to shoot the M-16 at a grand.

Finally. My recommendation for you is to try out for the team, see if you even make the cut (I've shot with some Navy guys--they're not bad at all), and then use their rifles and equipment for a full season. If, (and I do mean IF) at the end of the season, you still enjoy it and are shooting good scores, then think about buying your own equipment. We civilians do not have that luxury but as you do, it would be silly not to take advantage.

-Nate
 

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Great advice from "natdscott" to! I shoot service rifle "Across the Course" to,(AR-15a2) so I agree with what he says also. You should try it all first, then decide.
 

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Navy's might be a little different than the Air Forces but if not, it's not so easy just to join their shooting team. The first thing they asked for was my shooting resume (this was over 30 years ago), listing all the competitions I had competed in, how I placed and how many national level events I had competed in. Without the credentials, they wouldn't even let you try out for the team.
 

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Essayons said:
LOL just read the edit to my post. Apparently the language I used was a little to strong for this forum. :D
:p I thought you'd like that. It's nothing all of us haven't heard before, but rules are rules, and apparently the filter doesn't catch that one yet...

chuckle.. :)

-Nate
 

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I Dares I Wins said:
Hey guys, I'm looking at joining the Navy Shooting team, and I want to eventualy buy my own rifle, and the only guns they will let us use are the M-16, the M-1 Garrand, and the M1A(M-14).

My question to you is; which of these would you choose, and what would you do to it to turn it into a 1000 yard rifle.

Call it a $3000ish cap for gunsmithing and rifle/parts combined. Can it even be done for this price?

Josh
.223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. Hell, check out wind drift at 500 yards. It's a 300 yard varmint round. www.lrbarms.com www.smithenterprises.com
 

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Koga said:
.223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. :), check out wind drift at 500 yards. It's a 300 yard varmint round. www.lrbarms.com www.smithenterprises.com
you need to do some researching. really......, read through this please:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/article ... mile-1.php

And before you post here again please read who you are speaking to.... reffering to Nate (a moderator) as a mall ninja is a not the smartest move you can make.
 

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Koga said:
... .223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. :), check out wind drift at 500 yards.
What?! I shoot .223 at 5 and 600 a lot. No biggee. Just read the wind, dial it in, and shoot. No fuss, no muss. I won't say it's ideal, but the bullets still struggle through the paper and backer just fine...I promise.

Koga, you're just wrong. Five or ten years ago, you'd have been right, but with the bullet choices from 80 grains and up, it can make the grand. It can, and there ARE shooters doing so...even if some of us do know how to run a com-pu-ter.

Running the 90 VLDs through a 6.5-twist Krieger, you'll be doing just fine at 1000. Elevation is very similar, and for windage, you actually come out a minute or two ahead of a 175 SMK .308.

Is it the best Service Rifle for long range? No, and I said that above. It's tough to get the .223 cartridge to reach that range and stay supersonic. It requires a specialized rifle, and very good, very hot handloads.

Times change. Cartridge case capacities do not.
-Nate
 

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Ive seen plenty of guys shoot .223 out to 900 - 1000yds. it can and has been done, many of them are top level shooters and shoot scores of around 95+ Dont knock the round. Its a good round and does a good job. But for 1000yd work, I would prefer a .308. Better ballistics then the .223 at that range.
 

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That was the blanket statement of the new year. So, anyone disagreeing is an internet ninja, while its ok to make absolute, broad sweeping claims to the contrary.
 

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+1 natdscott! NRA and CMP Service Rifle includes a 600 yd prone slow fire stage. The dominant rifle is the AR15a2. Look at the NRA LongRange championship, Service Rifle Category, several winners in recent years shooting AR15 type rifles.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the input guys, I think I'm gonna go with the M-14.

As for my shooting, I hand load for my 7MM, and have had groups as small as .17, but have never shot in competition before. I have it on good authority from my command rep. that it is not difficult to join.

Thanks again guys

Josh
 

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natdscott said:
Koga said:
... .223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. :), check out wind drift at 500 yards.
What?! I shoot .223 at 5 and 600 a lot. No biggee. Just read the wind, dial it in, and shoot. No fuss, no muss. I won't say it's ideal, but the bullets still struggle through the paper and backer just fine...I promise.

Koga, you're just wrong. Five or ten years ago, you'd have been right, but with the bullet choices from 80 grains and up, it can make the grand. It can, and there ARE shooters doing so...even if some of us do know how to run a com-pu-ter.

Running the 90 VLDs through a 6.5-twist Krieger, you'll be doing just fine at 1000. Elevation is very similar, and for windage, you actually come out a minute or two ahead of a 175 SMK .308.

Is it the best Service Rifle for long range? No, and I said that above. It's tough to get the .223 cartridge to reach that range and stay supersonic. It requires a specialized rifle, and very good, very hot handloads.

Times change. Cartridge case capacities do not.
-Nate
Okay, amigo, it's possible, I forget he's shooting paper. How many rounds is a 6.5 twist good for? That's ALOT of dwell time. Good information in your post and well conducted, by the way.
 

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Savage110 said:
Koga said:
.223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. :), check out wind drift at 500 yards. It's a 300 yard varmint round. www.lrbarms.com www.smithenterprises.com
you need to do some researching. really......, read through this please:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/article ... mile-1.php

And before you post here again please read who you are speaking to.... reffering to Nate (a moderator) as a mall ninja is a not the smartest move you can make.
Maybe you should stop talking for awhile.
 

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Guys, lets just put it behind us ok. Nothing to be gained by arguing. we all made our points.

To the OP, I hope you have fun with your M14 mate, I shoot service rifle and use a SMLE .303 and Finnish M39, but thats at a club level, not in the military.....yet.
 

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Koga said:
Savage110 said:
Koga said:
.223/5.56 won't make 1000 yards no matter how many internet ninjas vouch for it. :), check out wind drift at 500 yards. It's a 300 yard varmint round. www.lrbarms.com www.smithenterprises.com
you need to do some researching. really......, read through this please:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/article ... mile-1.php

And before you post here again please read who you are speaking to.... reffering to Nate (a moderator) as a mall ninja is a not the smartest move you can make.
Maybe you should stop talking for awhile.

Koga I think we know who the mall ninja is.

1000 Yard AR-15/.223 is nothing knew.


And now....




AR-15 @ 1k
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... ost1325444
 
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