[Jeff_850]

The US Army M24 has a long action so it can be refitted to take the .300 Win Mag
is the Army going to refit thier rifles with the .300 Win Mag or not?
and also: should they? would this make a better sniper rifle?

i think that the Army could use a .300 Win mag sniper rifle... could increace thier effective range and all

 

[FLEA]

!

I pretty sure they made it long action that way to keep thier options open. As far as should they go to a 300. why not a 338...or even work on the 408....They get good results on the 308 so they will prolly stick with it until they have a need to upgrade.

 

[CM2k]

The US Army military publications make allusions to the idea of upgrading the weapons to .300 WM, or the MSR (Medium Sniper Rifle). Wether or not they will go through with it is up in the Air, seeing as the publications are quite old.

 

[Jeff_850]

FLEA:
yea the .308 is probably good enough the bigger stuff kicks a lot more and also i would think that at closer range you wouldnt want a .338 w/ a muzzle brake thats going to be LOUD compared to a .308

 

[Jake S]

Yeah they could upgrade to .300 but they have no need to. If they need more power, they already have bigger guns they could use. And the M24 is doing just fine in .308.

 

[PATH]

.308 is indeed a fine caliber but there is a lot of buzz about the outstanding qualities of the .338 Lapua. Less than a .50 but more than a .300. I have never shot the .338 Lapua but it sounds intriguing. Would there be a downside to going to .338 Lapua instead of .300?

 

[Jeff_850]

well the .338 has a disadvantage as its recoil is soo great that you need a muzzle brake... a .300 Win mag honestly can use a muzzle brake but doesnt actually need one you will live from shooting a .300 Win mag without one
muzzle brakes seem to make the gun much louder

well it doesnt match the performanc of a .50 BMG but the .338 has ample power to hit a human sized target well byond what most shooters can consistantly hit a human sized target at and can be fitted in guns that weigh only a little bit more than guns that are in .308, not a 32.5 lb M82A1 or any other heavy .50 BMG

 

[Jake S]

At extremely long range (in excess of 1500 yards) the .338 will outperform the .50, and much more accurately, as there is match .338 ammo out there, but no true .50 BMG match is available.

But yeah, it kicks way too much, even with a muzzle break, and even without on is extremely loud. Where it excells is extremely lon range sniping and shooting through heavily armoured targets. But I think theat if the US armed forces needed a .338 they might as well invest in the AI Super Magnum, as that would probably be a better platform for it, and leave the M24 a .308.

Jake

 

[Jeff_850]

well energy wise the .50 BMG is the most powerful at long range, however all that energy doesnt do a damn thing if it cant hit its target so yes the .338 does outpreform a .50 afterall heh

there are a few rifles in .338 that would be nice but Accuracy International is probably the best
what are your thoughts on the Rem SR8 (which was canceled), Dakota T-76 Longbow, HS Precision Pro 2000 HTR in .338 how you think they compare to the AI?

 

[Jake S]

I don't know about the Dakota Longbow, although I assume it would be good, as it looks quite formidable. The Remington seemed to be quite good, does anyone know why they cancelled it? All HS Precision products are top of the line, including the pricet HTR line. I have full confidence in them performing exceptionally. I also think that the Finnish Sako TRG-42 in .338 is an excellent rifle, and holds up to the companies stellar reputation. It is a pretty big rifle, and quite heavy, but these are definitely pluses for top ballistics with minimized recoil from the .338 Lapua. I also think that most of these rifles would perform better with the .338 than a rebarreled M24 would.

Jake

 

[Jeff_850]

shot the Dakota Longbow in .338 once... cant tell you much about it that you dont already know heh
its a shame that the SR8 was canceled it would make a sweet weapon... cant think of any reasons why
as far as HS Precision and Sako er how could i forget them heh... they should be damn good rifles too

heh i guess you could upgrade to the .408 Chey Tac which would steadily outpace the .338 Lapua but at what point is enough just simply enough?
snipers prefer to get within 600-800m if they can... at that range a .308 is good enough... a good balance between a rifle that isnt too loud, too heavy, doesnt kick that bad but still enough to kill the enemy and again are you more dead if shot by a .338 than you are shot by a .308?
although a sniper might find the enemy furhter than 1000m in which case a .300 Win Mag or .338 Lapua would be a better rifle
what about the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum or .338 Remington Ultra Magnum... with the right ammo they would make good alternatives to the .300 WM or .338 Lapua although the .338 Lapua is still king

 

[Jake S]

The Remington Ultra Mags are quite formidable cartridges, but since the .300 WM and .338 Lapua have been excepted its unlikely that we'll see any duty from the RUMs.

Personally I would like to see more sniper rifles in .30-06. It is a bit more powerful than the .308 and handles heavier bullets with greater ease while not punishing the shooter with excessive recoil like the WM does. For engagement distances of under 1000 yards it would be much better than the .308, and the Federal Gold Medal Match loads are extremely accurate. And truthfully, you don't need the "bigger is better" mentality so prevalent over here. Taking shots at human targets at .408 CheyTac distances is just stupid in most scenarios.

Jake

 

[Jeff_850]

heh as far as how far the .408 Chey Tac can go... how are you going to see that far that you would actually need a .408 Chey Tac (for just about everything save a few occasional missions)
ive herd a lot more about 1000y accuracy of the .308 being almost 3x as accurate than that of the .30-06 but i could be wrong if i am please correct me... never had a chance to perform these tests myself just read off internet heh
what about the 7mm Rem Mag... wouldnt have brought that up until you mentioned the .30-06
of course i see no reason this cartridge would actually be adopted but the 7mm Rem mag has only a little bit more reciol than the .30-06 and good ballistic coefficients (not sure how match ammo in that caliber would do compared to 220 gr Mk out of a .300 WM or .30-06 though

 

[Snipe]

Well a .30-06 can be made just as accurate as a .308 and the only reason it was chosen for military use over the 06 is that it is a nato round.

 

[Jeff_850]

makes sense
for shor actions you could always upgrade to the .300 WSM now adays right?
and for long actions there are more powerful than the .30-06 now anyway heh
i guess that both the.308 and .30-06 arnt at the top of the food chain even in their respective action lengths anymore
long actions can fit the .300 WM and short actions can fit the .300 WSM
still either round is higly effective and it would suck to be shot by either of the 4 i mentioned

 

[mele]

Keep in mind, for the .300 WSM, it uses the magnum case diameter. So for a short action in .308, the bolt face is too small and will not work with the .300 WSM. A short action with the large bolt face is very rare, it wasn't produced until the .300 WSM came out.

MEL

 

[Jeff_850]

that makes sense.. wasnt completely sure of what would fit in what since im not a bolt action guy and dont own any bolt guns (a month or so i shoud order my Rem 700P )

 

[mele]

In terms of the .300 WM in the M24, it was designed to be "possible" though its certainly not easy. The barrel has to be replaced with a .300WM barrel, and the bolt also has to be replaced (case head diameter). I know very few have been converted, with all the converted ones being done by and for the SF groups. (as far as I understand it)

MEL

 

[DR308]

The M24 system started out life as a dual purpose system. The barrel and the action had interupted threads so a quick barrel change could be made. The system came in a very big and heavy case. With two bolts, two barrels, and a mag end block to put in the back of the mag well so .308 could fit and feed with no problem. The system worked well for about 100 rounds of .300 win mag. Then the barrel and action threads had stretched enough to completly change the head spacing on BOTH cal. So it was decided very early on to go with the .308 with the M24 rifle with the option to make it a .300 Win Mag. And yes, they do have the M24 in .300 win mag cal. And yes, it does go to SF. At least thats my guess on the suject. :roll:

 

[Jeff_850]

why not have the M24 in short action for the .308 for most snipers and a long action for the .300 WM for some speical forces units
does the long action on the M24 hurt accuracy in .308 and are there really feed problems (if ammo is placed in properly)