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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum and was wondering if there are any former/active marine corp scout snipers? I am a senior in college and seriously considering the marines after graduation. One of the job descriptions that seemed interesting to me was the scout sniper. I was wondering what qualifications are needed and what kind of person they are looking for? I have never fired a gun before and I wear glasses, is this a problem? what is the corp's policy on laser eye surgery or is there an alternative for scout snipers? any input or comments, or anything about the marines in general, good or bad, would help me immensely.

thanks for reading
-mike
 

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These are the basics, Units vary with Indocs and Pre-Reqs.

Minimum Requirements: As per HQMC School Quota Message:

Criteria: 60 days prior to a class convening, the G-3 at each division will receive a message from HQMC stating the number of funded quotas given to each division, the gear list, report date, and criteria for attending. THE FOLLOWING PREREQUISITES MUST BE MET BY THE REPORTING MARINE OR HE WILL BE RETURNED TO HIS UNIT:

1. Lance Corporal through Captain.
2. Infantry MOS or MOS 0203.
3. Vision correctable to 20/20 in both eyes. Color blindness is discouraged.
4. Serving in or designated for assignment to a Scout Sniper billet.
5. Minimum of 12 months remaining on current contract upon completion of course
(Does not apply to reservist)
6. Must score a First Class PFT on course convene date.
7. Current rifle Expert. Must have qualified in the last fiscal year.
(Reservist can have a score three years old, but must be current Expert)
8. No courts martials or NJP within the last six months.
9. Minimum GT of 100.
10. No history of mental illness.
11. Must be a volunteer.
12. It is HIGHLY recommended, but not required, for the student to have completed the following MCI courses: Land Navigation, Patrolling, Calling and Adjusting Supporting Arms, and Reconnaissance Marine. It is also recommended but not required that the student have conducted basic Scout Sniper field skills: stalks, consealment, field sketches, range cards, range estimations, and firing of the M-40A1 / A3 prior to attending the course. Students should also posses a high degree of maturity, equanimity, and common sense.
13. Bottom line: the best, most experienced infantry you can send.

Marine Corps PFT: For a perfect score: 3 mile run in 18 minutes, 20 deadhang pull-ups(No Swinging), 100 sit-up/crunchs under two minutes.
Swim Qual: 500 meter swim using side or breast stroke, 50 meter swim holding a weight out of water, tread water for 30 seconds holding a weight out of water, no signs of panic.

Two of the better ways of becoming a Scout/Sniper are through a Recon unit or an Infantry Battalion. First join the Marine Corps with an Infantry MOS. While in Boot Camp you will need to shoot Expert on the rifle range, become at least a second class swimmer and score a high first class PFT. Upon completion of Infantry training you will be given the opportunity to volunteer for Recon or Force Recon. If you successfully complete their indoc you will be sent to a Recon unit where you will first qualify as a Recon Marine then given the opportunity to volunteer for Scout/Sniper School. BN Recon and Force Recon have school seats assigned to them for every S/S School.
The other way is to be sent to an Infantry Battalion and then volunteer for the Scout/Sniper Platoon. The S/S Plt runs indocs annually and pulls in personnel from the BN.

Each Sniper unit runs its own version of the indoc but they are all extremely difficult. Once in the unit you will go through all the training to become a sniper before ever going to S/S School. Once at the school you will be expected to have all the basic knowledge of a Scout/Sniper and the advanced knowledge of an infantry Marine. You will show up with everything that you will need to make it through the school including your ghillie suit.

BC
 

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Any time. There are several retired and at least one current USMC Scout Sniper's on this forum that i know of... feel free to ask questions.

BC
 

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Yep BC pretty much hit the basics.

The basic infantry grunt MOS is 0311 (at least it was in my day) Back in the late 70s (yep it was that long ago) the easiest way into the Scout Sniper school was through the S-2 Scout / Snipers - by way of a basic infantry line company (for me I started in Echo 2nd Bn, 2nd Marine Regiment. 2nd Mar Div, but didn't actually get the school until I went to Okinawa in 1978.

I didn't shoot expert in basic ( :oops: ), but did every time after basic, including with the .45 - which was required for qualification since we carried then as back-up firepower. I did manage a 300 PFT.

I suspect it is more difficult to get into the unit and the school now then it was when I was in - the cool factor has finally caught up with the adreniline buzz of the MOS.

JeffVN
 

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Yep... Marine Rifleman is 0311... keep in mind its much easier to get into sniper school if you are a 0321/0311... meaning your a Reconassaince Marine Rifleman. After boot camp and SOI... you will have a chance to vollenteer for a spot in Battalion Reconassaince... in wich you conduct an indoc then if you pass... go to basic reconassaince school (including basic airborne school and things like that)... after you prove yourself a good rifleman... you can try and jockey for a platoon or company with a need for people willing to fill a sniper billet. Usually... snipers are designated marksmen before filling a sniper billet. If you are lucky enough to find one... and fit one... then you can go to sniper school.

BC
 

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Discussion Starter #7
First of all, thank you for all of your input. So requirements for scout sniper are actually more stringent than Force Recon? That's a little ... disconcerting... haha.

So a few more questions if you guys don't mind. About rifle qualifications, how many tries do you get? and how are the tests conducted? this part might be the most frightening for me since I have never fired a rifle. Should I go and get some experience on a practice range before enlistment or do I get ample practice in the corps?

Also, about eyesight, I have normal vision but I do wear corrective lenses (my eyes are about 20/40 and 20/50 for my right and left respectively), are there glasses that are permitted or do I need corrective eye surgery?

Also, are there any exercises I can do to prepare better? Swimming in particular is a little daunting since I am not the strongest swimmer, and pool access is limited for me ( I have a home in jersey where I have access to a pool but I am currently taking a semester off to live and work in NYC.) Also, general exercises in strength and endurance would be of great help.

Again, thank you for the replies and help everybody.

-mike
 

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Want to get stronger? Do pushup pyramids: 12 up, 12 back down.

Ex. 1 push up, 2 pushups, 3 pushups, 4, all the way to twelve, then do 11, 10, 9, 8, back down to one. If you cant complete them doing full pushups, use your knees.

Sittups, just do them, only drop down until your shoulderblades hit dirt.

Pullups, not only practice doing the pullups themselves (everyday), but practice just hanging, takes quite a bit of forearm strength.

Running, nothing can prepare you like running. It sucks, I hate running, yet I've had to run more miles than I care to remember. I'm just a big stupid slow runner! :lol: Once you hit basic and all the fun stuff, your running will be 210% better than anything you could do pre-basic.

Esepcially if you go airborne, you will really learn to "love" running there (and the taste of woodchips and or sawdust).
 

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jonsdeli said:
I have never fired a rifle.

-mike
You never know.....you might get hit with the full-auto bug. I have met a bunch of people with dreams of being snipers/sharpshooters but after they start rock and rolling they never think twice about it.

Sniping is not for everyone.

Good Luck
 

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hey,

I dont mean to hijack your topic, but i too have the same questioning subject, as in i too wear glasses and will this be a problem? also i too have never fired much of a gun in my life, except for a .22 and a reg pellet rifle/handgun.

Also a little off subject but what branch is to have the most respectable/qualified sniper training? I hear the marines are good, but the rangers have a decent program themselves, then we have the seals who are good also. So what I'm asking, is if you can provide a non biased answer to who is the best in training that would be great.
 

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jonsdeli said:
So requirements for scout sniper are actually more stringent than Force Recon?
Not sure what i said to make you think that... but no that is not true. Reconassaince Marine MOS 0321 is battalion reconassaince... it is not Force Reconassaince. Battalion reconassaince is the "more easy" larger group of reconassaince. You have to be Battalion Recon before you can even think about applying for the indoc for Force Recon. Then... if your good enough to pass Force Recon indoc... you have to be hand picked out of the people who passed indoc to fill an empty space in a unit... this is known as filling a billet. Once you get a billet spot... then you apply for Force Recon school... wich is 18 months long. And there is no garentee that you will pass the school... from the scout snipers that i know... they say force recon school was (quite seriously) a thousand times more demanding than scout sniper school... i guess thats why there is a 85% drop out rate in force recon indoc and a 60% drop out in scout sniper school / indoc. My ratio's are a few years old... so they might be slightly outdated.

Heres an example... they wont let me go to scout sniper school because (according to my CO...) "it would be taking a step backwards". Im at the top 10% of my MOS as is... i dont have the time or the purpose to go to scout sniper school... or so i was told. :?

BC
 

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shikaku said:
hey,

I dont mean to hijack your topic, but i too have the same questioning subject, as in i too wear glasses and will this be a problem? also i too have never fired much of a gun in my life, except for a .22 and a reg pellet rifle/handgun.

Also a little off subject but what branch is to have the most respectable/qualified sniper training? I hear the marines are good, but the rangers have a decent program themselves, then we have the seals who are good also. So what I'm asking, is if you can provide a non biased answer to who is the best in training that would be great.
As far as eye sight goes... read #3 of my original post.

The Rangers, Army SF, and SEAL's all attend the Joint Scout Sniper School at Quantico VA (Wich is run by Marines). Theres nothing wrong with the Army Sniper School... but it is a basic to intermediate school. (from what i have heard from Rangers and a few of my Army 18B friends). If ya want the truth... the Canadian Sniper School is one of the best. The thing that sets the Canadian Sniper units apart from other sniper units is that they keep there shooter and spotters together for as long as they are enlisted... so they work like a swiss watch. There is a multi-national Sniper Competition every year... and the Canadians will quite alot... using a .338 Lapua rifle with a proven .25 MOA as a standard rifle does help though...

BC
 

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shikaku said:
hey,

I dont mean to hijack your topic, but i too have the same questioning subject, as in i too wear glasses and will this be a problem? also i too have never fired much of a gun in my life, except for a .22 and a reg pellet rifle/handgun.

Also a little off subject but what branch is to have the most respectable/qualified sniper training? I hear the marines are good, but the rangers have a decent program themselves, then we have the seals who are good also. So what I'm asking, is if you can provide a non biased answer to who is the best in training that would be great.

As far an never shooting a rifle before the military that is USUALLY better since you are trained right the first time. If you learned to shoot before going in the military you usually have bad habits that are hard to break. I hate to say it but the USMC is much better at marksmanship training than the other branches. (I was in the army btw)


BTW many olympic and pro shooters use air guns for training. There is no recoil or noise so you can concentrate or your basic skills like breathing and trigger control. My father taught me to shoot when I was a kid with a BB gun then a .22. I was lucky, he taught me right the first time. When he was in the Army he was on several shooting teams with rifle and pistols. He knew how to shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sorry, it was probably misunderstanding on my part, I assumed recon marine was force recon. So about the training programs, will I be able to attend all the training you mentioned in recommended programs (land navigation, recon, etc.) straight out of boot and all at once? Or do I have to serve a tour in Iraq or wherever first?

-mike
 

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Training goes as follows... if you can get into the schools.

Boot Camp - 13 Weeks

School Of Infantry - 1 Week

MOS School, TRU-EX and MEU-EX - 9 Months

A tour or two in Iraq / Asscrackistan - 2 Years

Scout Sniper School - 11 Weeks

Thats what its going to take to get a Scout Sniper billet...

BC
 

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Ballistic_Coefficiency said:
/ Asscrackistan


BC
A few fond memories I take it? :lol:
 

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:lol: .... you see to much of any foreign country and youll start makin up some pretty funny names for it. Theres alot of people who lives in caves... mud huts... and when asked about what they would do with the 25 million dollor reward if they captured osama bin laden and handed him over to the US... one of them remarked "i would buy more land for my goats". You can see how frustrating it would be to try and work with these people...

BC
 

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Yea, I have heard the stories from there. I heard one of the SF guys told the higher ups what the problem was and recommended we just promise to fully equip the warlord that turned him in for life. He said it would be cheaper and the people would have a frame of referance. His suggestion was never implimented. The "smart people" knew better.

My Civil Affairs unit AO was the pacific rim, so I have heard of some strange tales about indegenious personnel.
 

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ballistic,

ok sorry about that, when you said corrective 20/20 i thought you meant surgically or lasekly.

also again not to hijack the topic, but does anyone know if the marines offer to pay back student loans, because the only thing preventing me from going to the marines instead of the army, is because the army will pay up to 120k worth of student loans.
 

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I have no clue about anything dealing with college... i went to college via MCRD San Diego... Platoon 1085 Alpha Company 8) As far as #3 rule goes... it can be any type of correction... glasses and contacts count too.

BC
 
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