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Discussion Starter #1
Mosin-Nagant project

This one is for you history buffs.
I've been seeing Mosin-Nagants everywhere on the used market for really cheap.

A couple of Historic gun folks I know said that Mosin-Nagants are the easiest antique guns to shoot due to the availability of parts, ammo and people who like them.

I have yet to see the sniper variant for sale anywhere.

If I have a machinist or a fabricator make me a down facing bolt is there anything else I would need to do to the rifle?

I know I'd need to dig up a PU and mounting hardware.
Anyone know of any shops making Nagant replacement actions/barrels?

-snowy
 

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Snowy,

Check Interordnance, they have 91/30 Sniper packages for 399 as imported with the correct scope and mount on them. The rifle are arsenal refurbs from after the war.
 

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That sounds way too cheap. Are they original snipers, or are they "replica" snipers that they assembled?

either way, do they have a website?

MEL
 

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An arsenal refurb after the war...hmm...I think the importer is just adding the bent bolt and scope, but for a nagant rifle with the scope and bolt, thats still a pretty cool price.

www.kalinkaoptics.com

These guys reproduce the scope and mount I think.

I'd thought of a nagant too, Snowy. I don't think you would have to replace the barrel if you get an arsenal refurb/"new" condition rifle. Finding match ammo may be a pain.
 

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A friend of mine has built several Moisin Nagant target rifles.


He starts out with a Polish M44 Nagant. Then he chops off the bolt handle and welds on a bent bolt handle.

Then he mounts a Ruger scope mount onto the barrel. Not the receiver, but the barrel. Then he mounts a Leupold 4.5-14X Vari XIII. The resulting combination shoots .5MOA or better. Seriously.

I have some pictures. I will try to find them.


Mad
 

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I knw the Finnish reworked them and made very accurate rifles out of them. I know someone makes scope mounts, or used to. I can't think of the name now. It's the company that makes scope mounts for a lot of odd ball rifles. It will come to me when I don't have access to a computer.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Awesome intel everyone.

I think I finally found a spare time project that won't murder the bank.

I really want a shooter, so I'm not sure an original is a good idea. I wouldn't want to blow out a part of history.

That is an interesting little philosophical question.

To shoot or not to shoot?

-snowy
 

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Deciding what to do with an original is always kinda hard, unless you are Muzz, who I may point out is an unabashed bubba.

However, the arsenal refurbs that Mlammers mentioned aren't original. They were re-built after the end of the second world war. So, although the parts will be electro-penciled to match, they belonged to other rifles. So what you end up with is a rifle in as-new condition, but not original. Feel free to cut on those if you like, since they were never a matching rifle anyway.

We have a member here who has not been seen in ages, I don't think, but his user name is Caban, a Russian military sniper. He told me the M44s like Mad mentioned are sometimes more accurate than the longer 91/30 but either in as-new condition should be a real shooter. You can aslo buy the bolt pre-made if you search the net. A lil sandpaper to free float the barrel, and its off to the races.

Eka was right about the Finnish rifles as well...Those are supposed to be real shooters!
 

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Every once in a while i will pick up a Shotgun News... they have original WW2 Mosin Nagant 1891/30 Sniper rifles with the 4X PU scope and everything (Arsenal Refinished after WW2) for around $450. I havent picked up a Shotgun News in quite some time... so they might not be in there any more.

BC
 

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Finnish Mosin-Nagant Rifles: Ukko-Pekka. (Uncle Pekka.) A very good rifle.

Match-Grade 7.62x54R Ammunition: Unavailable, unless you reload or make your rounds from scratch. There was no match-grade 7.62x54R until... 2000 or so. And the Russians aren't going to sell it, because the Spetsnaz and any other Russian Special Forces unit will literally beat you to a pulp to keep their match-grade ammo stocks.

KalinkaOptics: Not a bad supplier.
 

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I've seen a hungarian bullet advertised as being a "precision" round but I bet they have some swamp land to sell me too...

Caban had told me that (I think) Lapua 7.62x53R could be safely fired in a x54 weapon but not vice versa.

Check out some Dragunov websites to see what those boys like shooting, they usually talk about their ammo.
 

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If you reload the 7.62x 54 remember the Russan 7.62 is NOT .308, it is .310 or .311, I cant remember what one. Either way for best accuracy, use the right diameter bullet.
 

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BC/Snowy,

The latest SGN add for the WWII(PE is the WWII scope, PU I think was post war, but I might be wrong there)91/30 Snipers was $850, the PU version listed as WWII rifles with post war Optics upgrade was $399. Both rifles have all markings intact so I guess its kind of up to the individual to decide.

On the other hand Snowy, if you want to get used the 91/30 with current optics you can buy a weaver rail mount from the the same place for about $65. That way you can bang away without cutting up a sniper package. THese packages as Muzzleblast mentioned are rebuils so dont worry too much about hurting them.

Hope this helps
 

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That is why i noted that they were

Ballistic_Coefficiency said:
(Arsenal Refinished after WW2)
:)

BC
 

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(PE is the WWII scope, PU I think was post war, but I might be wrong there)
PI, PU. Pretty sure that PE is the post-war. I know that the PU is a "Great Patriotic War" optic.
 

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We have a member here who has not been seen in ages, I don't think, but his user name is Caban, a Russian military sniper. He told me the M44s like Mad mentioned are sometimes more accurate than the longer 91/30 but either in as-new condition should be a real shooter.
Greetings to everyone! I did vanish for a few months... at least went to places where PC and some uplink to iNet were quite extraordinary things.

Good to hear from you, Muzzleblast!

I have interest in all Russian bolt-action sniper rifles (for obvious reasons :), though I have used only SVD\SVU\SVDS rifles in combat, and twice had chance to try customized Record-CISM .308, whcih

grew to SV98).
Muzzleblast is quite right - for some reason average carbine Mosin shoots better than average Mosin 91/30 out to about 300-400 m (average stock weapon were making 2 MOA at 100m in 10 shot groups off the shelf, with no tuning at all, old shooters say).
At longer range, 91/30 gets even with carbine. Of course, ballistics are different - longer rifle have slightly more muzzle energy, but wartime scopes had no built-in BDC anyway.

Match-Grade 7.62x54R Ammunition: Unavailable, unless you reload or make your rounds from scratch.

There was no match-grade 7.62x54R until... 2000 or so. And the Russians aren't going to sell it, because the Spetsnaz and any other Russian Special Forces unit will literally beat you to a pulp to keep their match-grade ammo stocks.
Ammo. Pet peeve :\
We HAD match grade 7.62x54R... until 70s, when sport shooting everywhere turned to small bores. Typhoon and Extra were excellent rounds, based on Finnish WW2 sniper ammo, and exceled in Olympics BUT - they are virtually impossible to find, and they are not in production today.
I told Muzzleblast about Lapua rounds for that very reason - they are based upon the same bullet/cartridge design Russian pre-70 match ammo was based.

I know little about ammo our special units use. I believe, that FSB units and Alpha have something special to shoot - and in .308 too, because they use AWPs also! They deserve it. Military still use 7N1 split-core sniping round, and EXTREMELY rare 7N14 AP sniping round. Both are quite good - enough to wringle maximum possible accuracy from SVD family semi-autos.

If I remember, PE is even pre-ww2 scope design, based on German scopes. They say that it was excellent scope, with nice optics and supreme point-of-impact consistency. PU (i mean original one) is also quite good. Both PE and PU endure 7.62x54 recoil with no problem. Have to say - if you lay your hands on original PE, you are lucky - it is great historical item!
 

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Caban!!!

Great to see you back! I was wondering where you had gotten off to. Thanks for the info. Sorry to be a disappointer, but I had to shelf the Nagant idea for now. Still have the rifle but I chose to build on a Mauser. The logistics of finding everything for the Nagant were pretty scary.

Would be easier in Snowy's case, in the US, mind.
 

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Indeed, and I feel that scope mount in its original design would be hardest to find. After a little skim of non-Russian gunshops I found quite a few, but there was no original mount. I will post some pics if i had a chance - it is very unusual mount, and it will be pain to install even for skilled gunsmith, let alone for, say, me :) after my attempt to handcraft a silencer for .22 rifle i thought i need some training in working with metal :)
 

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Caban said:
Indeedafter my attempt to handcraft a silencer for .22 rifle i thought i need some training in working with metal :)
I can tell you how to hand craft a silencer for dirt chep and easy. 5 min even. It's illegal here in the US, I don't know about Russia.
 
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