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Discussion Starter #1
A friend of mine was a combat tracker during the Vietnam war. As a sniper these are some folks to be very aware of since they will hunt you down. These folks actually got started and trained by the British SAS in Malaysia, then they helped get a school startrd here in the US. They used labs for tracking and were very effective when used correctly. For more info go to

www.combattrackerteam.org.

My friends photo is on page 14a I believe. He is laying on a strecher with his dog next to him. This is when he was wounded the last time and shipped out.

EDIT his photo is on page 14a not B as stated above.
 

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OH yes, during school, we had a complete training session on things we can do to help defeat tracking dogs. They are a very big threat to snipers in the field. The debate came up... do you shoot the dog or the handler first?

MEL
 

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I vote dog. Harder to get a new dog than it is to get a new handler.
The dog can still lead the threat to you.

-snowy
 

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As an immediate threat I would say handler. Dogs are hard to train, but handlers require training also, you just can't give an old GI a trained tracking dog and have him put the dog to use (effectively). The handler would pose (sp?) more of a threat to me than the dog and since my number one priority would be surviving, I would take out the biggest threat to my survival first.

APK
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I vote is handler, its easier to replace and train the dog then it is a handler. Besides the handler is a bigger target.
 

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True, but if this squad is based around the dog they are going to have to regroup.
I'm guessing that the squad may have more than one qualified handler in tow.

I'm also betting on higher morale loss for the dog.
Dogs are innocent, people are not.

Just a guess.



-snowy
 

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:shock: where the hell did the squad come from!?!? I was goin off just a handler and the dog.

Given this new info would be to call in close air support! F/A-18's and AH-1's!!!! :twisted:
 

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Assuming that www.combattrackerteam.org has their numbers right there appear to be about five men and a dog to at unit. I also saw what looked like a seven man unit.

I could be wrong, I only glanced at it. I plan to come back and read more later.

Nice link ekaphoto.

-snowy
 

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Yea I skipped the whole link thins, whoops. But I stand by my call for close air support. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
How they worked was a two man team would link up with a unit that needed them. The Tracker team took point with the dog out front and the second tracker in behind watching for ambushes, booby traps etc. The dog handler kept all of his attention on the dog. When the dog alerted the tracker team would point out where the dog alerted to so the unit could fire and manouver etc. The tracker team has the option of taking the job or not and they did it their way or no way. My buddy once refused a mission to a Col because the Col insisted they do it his way. After they left the Col called them back and they went out and did it their way.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
snowy said:
I'm also betting on higher morale loss for the dog.
Dogs are innocent, people are not.

Just a guess.



-snowy
Mentioning losing a dog. I used to work as a medic and one day we went to a nasty head on car crash. There were two fatalties one of them was decapatated, and one critical with severe head and facial injuries. In one of the vehicles a dog was basicaly taking its lasts breaths and the last couple of death kicks. Later at the hospital we were sitting around lamanating about the poor dog. Its amazing the crap that does and does not affect you in bad situations.
 

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Mentioning stuff that does and doesn't have an effect on you...
I'll second that.
I used to be a crisis prevention and intervention specialist at a nut house (I don't have to be PC I worked in one and trust me it was a nut house).

The only thing that ever got to me was when one of the most messed up, violent, most pain tolerant and remorseless guys who sent numerous staff to the hospital said "You know, you guys are the only family I have." This was after his family was supposed to pick him up for Thanksgiving and skipped out without telling anyone.

Totally knocked me for a loop for a long time.

Off topic I know, but that just popped into my head.
Never mentioned it before.


-snowy
 

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I've been in that guys situation before. Its weird when you realize that the people you hate the most are the people who care about you the most.
 

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Ah, you guys went and got me all sentimental and mushy now!!!

Snowy, I feel for you. I sure don't miss babysitting wife beaters and guys who shoot at peoples houses in the greybar hotel. But they sure can pull the heartstrings sometimes.

As for losing dogs, here's a story you reminded me of. My pop got a puppy when I was a baby, and as I grew I displayed my wit and creativity at an early age by naming him "Dog".

Dog was the best dog I ever had and for the first 16 years of my life he was always there. Heck of a hunting dog too, old Dog. lol. But he loved biting the vet.

When the time came to have him put down, none of us wanted to shoot him really, and we brought him to the vet. He was calm, had the shots, his heart stopped and he breathed no more. The vet waited a full minute to check his pulse. Dog snapped his head up and bit the vet for one final time, and as soon as he did, died for the last time.

Ah, miss that mutt....
 

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Wouldn't combat tracker teams be individual to the nation of employment? I heard of Canadian Track-Teams that were a full infantry squad (We call it a section) + handler, dog, hander #2 (8-12 men, depending on combat strength of the section.)

During WW2, the Japanese had standing orders to shoot the dog. So did the Koreans, and depending on the AO, the Vietnamese as well. Typically the VietCong would attack the handler, and the NVA would just set up a giant company-sized ambush a bit further down the path. Becuase they're the NVA. That's what they do. :wink:

I've heard of some dog teams being used in Chechnya. They're not having great success because it's really freaking hard to ID whatever's left of a Chechen sniping duo after a Mi-24 gets through with their hide.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Diffrent nations use diffrent tactics. The two man team is how they worked. One to handle the dog, the other as a cover man. The south African Selious Scouts used visial tracker teams and I believe they were in 4 man teams. They may or may not have several other selious scouts with them, and even tracked from helo's. Remember your tactics should change to fit what is best at the time. The US Army's acronim is METT-C (Mission, Enemy, Time, Terrain, and Civilans) In fact one of Alexander the greats strenths was the fact he changed tactics, deployment and even the make up of his units to meet changing conditions.
 

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Sun Tzu mentions:
"Any military is like water. It has no constant shape."

That's an amazingly rough quote and I'm sure the spirit of Master Sun is busily slaughtering me with the 'ghostly blade' passing through my throat about.... now. I'm just too lazy to turn around is all.

The Vietnamese were very adept at developing Counter-Recce teams that were deployed against MACV-SOG, LRRP, and MFR units during the Second Indochina War. I can only think that they were used against snipers as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
AK said:
Sun Tzu mentions:
"Any military is like water. It has no constant shape."

That's an amazingly rough quote and I'm sure the spirit of Master Sun is busily slaughtering me with the 'ghostly blade' passing through my throat about.... now. I'm just too lazy to turn around is all.

The Vietnamese were very adept at developing Counter-Recce teams that were deployed against MACV-SOG, LRRP, and MFR units during the Second Indochina War. I can only think that they were used against snipers as well.
I have heard they had trackers etc but haven't read much about them Thank goodness most of the hill tribsmen were on our side. (Hmongs etc,) now those folks can track. We have several that settled here after the war and they can find the deer where most locals can't.
 

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Montagnards? Yeah, the Communists could have done a much better job with the 'yards than they did. Vietnam would have been lost much sooner, and with at least a few hundred more casualties, had the Montagnards regarded the Communists with anything more than disgust.
 
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