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as a vendor, i hope all can see your biased position.
while i have nightforce on 4 of my rifles, i have many more luepolds.
it really depends on the user and the need.
i would guess at least half of the benchrest world still uses luepolds.
they make great hunting scopes for the better shooters.
we are all entitled to opinions
Leupold might be what benchrest guys use...but we are not shooting benchrest. we are shooting practical or tactical. Leupold tactical scopes leave a lot to be desired. While you might call this an "opinion"...the facts speak for themselves.

Most leupold tactical scopes have reticles that do not match the turrets (mil dot turret and moa dial) This is not a desirable feature for anyone who uses both turrets and dials
Most leupold tactical scopes are SFP. This again is not a desirable feature to anyone who shoots unknown distance.
Leupold scopes have horrible turrets. They are mushy, they have no zero stop, and they are a pain to re-zero.
Leupold scopes have ok glass...but again...not comparable to their prices. Glass should be much better for what the scopes cost.
Leupold scopes have a good warrant...and that is about it. Literally everything else about the scopes is 20+ year old technology that wasn't top of the line 20 years ago.

Yes...I know the military uses them. -- but the military uses alot of subpar equipment.
Yes...I know some benchrest guys use them-- but they are not using them in the same way a practical shooter will.
Yes...I realize you own them and think they are the best. I was where you are at one time. I had Mark 4 scopes and was very proud of them...until I started shooting enough to realize the scopes were a limiting factor. ANYONE with common sense who has spent any time behind a top tier glass will agree that leupold is not "top of the line"...and Nightforce has been disappointing in the last couple of years too.

Now...You feel the need to attack Orkan's character because he disagreed with your thoughts. Are you accusing Orkan of being biased simply to try and make a sale? I have seen orkan drop products more than once because he was disappointed in their performance. I have seen it many times...he doesn't push what he is selling because he is selling it. He sells what he has seen work. He steers people in the direction of what works...whether that leads to a sale or not.
 

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as a vendor, i hope all can see your biased position.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to straighten you out on this. Nice try, but you're off the mark and it would blow your mind to know just how much.

while i have nightforce on 4 of my rifles, i have many more luepolds.
Own any S&B, Hensoldt, Premier, Tangent Theta, USO? If so, show me a picture of you holding one of them... or at least one of your rifles with them all mounted. Not Nightforce, nor Leupold, have been the tip of the pyramid for a LONG time. Matter of fact, nightforce never really was. Not with companies like S&B and USO in the mix back then. Hell, they didn't even HAVE a FFP optic until a few years ago. Now that they do, they are still decidedly mid-tier, competing with companies like kahles and vortex.

it really depends on the user and the need.
< about the only thing you have right so far. Each scope has its place, but you need experience with ALL of them in order to know where that place is. Can you demonstrate that you have experience with all of the current mid to top tier optics?

i would guess at least half of the benchrest world still uses luepolds.
This applies to users on this site how exactly? Square ranges with sighters and 100% known distance which is the same distance week after week up on a bench, often with a roof over your head, doesn't exactly ask much of any optic now does it?

they make great hunting scopes for the better shooters.
HUNTING scopes, for fudds. I might still give em a look if I were after a fixed 4 power. Time once was when there was a gold ring at the front of nearly every optic I owned too. Then I grew up.

we are all entitled to opinions
You're not entitled to anything. Not from me. If someone wants their opinion to carry weight, they must demonstrate their level of competence. You have not done that. What did you think?... you were just going to pop in here and start telling everyone how it is and handing out advice without showing your work? I know it may seem to you like we have each other in the same position, but it only seems that way.
 

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ar10ar15man...think of this. You have a new neighbor move in, you and your buddies are in your garage working on your car. New neighbor comes over and starts spouting off about all the things he knows about cars and starts giving you advise. Now you don't know this guy from jack, are you going to take him seriously? He may be 100% correct, but until you know him and he proves that to you, your not going to trust him are you. Right now your that new neighbor.

You joined here and within a few hours had posted on 10 different threads giving advise. You may be 100% correct in some of that advise, but know one here knows you and where your coming from. I'm not saying you shouldn't post or share your opinions, I'm just saying slow down, let us get to know you, you to know us, and then your opinions will carry more weight.


Now on to Leupold, my mom (yes my mom shoots more than most guys do) thought Leupold was the best thing since sliced bread. She never did tactical or practical shooting, just zero'd the scope, and held over for squirels and stuff at distance. Well a few years ago I bought my first Vortex. When she saw it and I told her what I paid for it. Her beloved Leupolds didn't seem so great any longer. She's bought two Vortex's since then. Leupold does make a decent product. But there is a lot better values out there, plus on the high end of things, $2500 plus Leupold doesn't even play in that market.
 

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i see in your rant that you have ignored the HUNTERS QUESTION.
400-700 YARDS HUNTING.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to straighten you out on this. Nice try, but you're off the mark and it would blow your mind to know just how much.

Own any S&B, Hensoldt, Premier, Tangent Theta, USO? If so, show me a picture of you holding one of them... or at least one of your rifles with them all mounted. Not Nightforce, nor Leupold, have been the tip of the pyramid for a LONG time. Matter of fact, nightforce never really was. Not with companies like S&B and USO in the mix back then. Hell, they didn't even HAVE a FFP optic until a few years ago. Now that they do, they are still decidedly mid-tier, competing with companies like kahles and vortex.

< about the only thing you have right so far. Each scope has its place, but you need experience with ALL of them in order to know where that place is. Can you demonstrate that you have experience with all of the current mid to top tier optics?

This applies to users on this site how exactly? Square ranges with sighters and 100% known distance which is the same distance week after week up on a bench, often with a roof over your head, doesn't exactly ask much of any optic now does it?

HUNTING scopes, for fudds. I might still give em a look if I were after a fixed 4 power. Time once was when there was a gold ring at the front of nearly every optic I owned too. Then I grew up.

You're not entitled to anything. Not from me. If someone wants their opinion to carry weight, they must demonstrate their level of competence. You have not done that. What did you think?... you were just going to pop in here and start telling everyone how it is and handing out advice without showing your work? I know it may seem to you like we have each other in the same position, but it only seems that way.
 

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THE REASON I POSTED A NEW GUY AND PROFILE.

IN SPITE YOUR PERSONAL CHOICES, it does not
mean that in this guys case a luepold or a mild 4.5-14 nightforce will not fit the bill.



ar10ar15man...think of this. You have a new neighbor move in, you and your buddies are in your garage working on your car. New neighbor comes over and starts spouting off about all the things he knows about cars and starts giving you advise. Now you don't know this guy from jack, are you going to take him seriously? He may be 100% correct, but until you know him and he proves that to you, your not going to trust him are you. Right now your that new neighbor.

You joined here and within a few hours had posted on 10 different threads giving advise. You may be 100% correct in some of that advise, but know one here knows you and where your coming from. I'm not saying you shouldn't post or share your opinions, I'm just saying slow down, let us get to know you, you to know us, and then your opinions will carry more weight.


Now on to Leupold, my mom (yes my mom shoots more than most guys do) thought Leupold was the best thing since sliced bread. She never did tactical or practical shooting, just zero'd the scope, and held over for squirels and stuff at distance. Well a few years ago I bought my first Vortex. When she saw it and I told her what I paid for it. Her beloved Leupolds didn't seem so great any longer. She's bought two Vortex's since then. Leupold does make a decent product. But there is a lot better values out there, plus on the high end of things, $2500 plus Leupold doesn't even play in that market.
 

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Last thing I would want when shooting an animal that far is having to worry about turrets and clicks.

Which is a big gripe about Luepold.

On a square range for a bench rest shooter this doesn't really matter though, you could even miss it, which would lead you to assume they're great scopes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Savage 11 243 scope...?

I am looking for a new scope for my 243 Savage 11. I am shooting groundhogs, coyotes, raccoon, possum on our farm. Most my shooting is along ditchbanks...it the past I had to walk and stalk w my .17 but I stepped up to .243 so I could hopefully stay in place and be able to reach out to the targets from 200-400 yards. I'm at 2" groups at 200 yards w a cheapo Nikon entry level 3-9x40. So what I'm looking for is something that has close up range of 50 yards but also capable of getting those elusive 300-500 yard hits. I'm not looking for top of the line...nothing more than $500. I have really been look g into buying a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 w Mil-Dot reticle. If I went w this scope I understand Mildots only accurate to 14x but I like the idea of being able to zoom in further to see critters at further distances. I don't need your opinion on 1x mag for every 100 yards...shooting at 400 yards w 4x is not for me. I want to be able to see them breathing. I would love to find something that's more a 4-16x w Mil-Dot. My scope now has a bdc reticle and since I'm only shooting out to 200 yards I can't really utilize the different hold points. Don't HAVE to have Mil-Dot but I do like the ability it has w holdover and windage. 90% of my hunting is morning/evening hours...is there an advantage in having a 50mm vs 44 or less...? I want something that does well in low light conditions. Again, my cheapo Nikon is fine in low lights but would love even more clarity. Also...illuminated reticles at my price point...worth it or throwing away my money? ThNks so much...looking to buy scope this week...this is my last effort at trying to find something different before taking the plunge
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I ended up saving and buying a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. And I decided to go with a second focal plane. I did this because I like the fact that the retical stays the same size for when I am on lower power hunting in wooded low light conditions. I also went with the 6-24 because I will most likely shoot on 12 power from 200-500 yards with the choice to go to 24 if the shot is far enough and the conditions are perfect. And for me it is not hard to remember that on 12 power my 2 MOA hash mark is now 4 MOA. I will also have this taped on my optic by the zoom knob. Thank you all for your input and having me save up and buy a nicer scope! I know that I will upgrade in the future, but as a college kid that is looking to start long range stuff I think this optic is perfect for me.
 

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I ended up saving and buying a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. And I decided to go with a second focal plane. I did this because I like the fact that the retical stays the same size for when I am on lower power hunting in wooded low light conditions. I also went with the 6-24 because I will most likely shoot on 12 power from 200-500 yards with the choice to go to 24 if the shot is far enough and the conditions are perfect. And for me it is not hard to remember that on 12 power my 2 MOA hash mark is now 4 MOA. I will also have this taped on my optic by the zoom knob. Thank you all for your input and having me save up and buy a nicer scope! I know that I will upgrade in the future, but as a college kid that is looking to start long range stuff I think this optic is perfect for me.
Good decision.
 

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I was doing research and I have decided that I want a FFP MOA reticle with MOA adjustments, and a 4-16 power magnification range. I will initially just be using the scope to practice medium range shots with (400-700 yds) with the ultimate goal of being comfortable at those ranges to start using the scope for mainly short to medium range hunting (100-700 yds). I have researched a ton of scopes and came across this one from cabelas. It is called the Cabela's Covenant Tactical FFP Riflescope. I have had great success with Cabela's scopes in the past and I was wondering what you all think of this one. I am a college kid so the budget aspect is a big deal for me. Any comments or reccomendations you guys have would be great! Thanks.
I realize you have purchased a scope but I wanted to weigh in on this topic because I own a couple of Covenant 7 scopes. Both are 5x35x56 with 34mm tubes.. I also have a Schmidt and Bender and a vortex Golden Eagle. I am strictly a long range precision enthusiast and I compete in local and regional matches. If you ever get the chance to look through a Covenant 7 do so. The clarity, field of view and brightness are incredible. Both scopes track correctly and the turrets have clear positive indents. They also have an excellent zero stop. They're not lighted, 34mm rings tend to be expensive and since Bass Pro Shops bought Cabela's the warranty has been a point of debate but this scope is substantially better. Than the $1000 Vortex scopes I've tried at the range. This is seriously a $1000 scope in quality for $400. I also have an Athlon Ares 4.5x30x56 and the Covenant 7 is comparable.. This is of course my personal opinion but I would not b.s. anyone on this topic. I've had a couple of crappy scopes and I know how much that sucks.
 
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