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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, I know I'm opening up a can of worms but...

I'm looking for a knife to drag around in the field. I'm partial to fixed blades for their outdoor use.

I have an SOG Desert, but it is a little too "bright" if you know what I mean.

I'm trying to decide between:

The SOG Gov't Agent with a powder coated blade.
http://www.sogknives.com/govern.htm

The SOG SEAL.
http://www.sogknives.com/seal2k.htm

Or that new Ka-Bar with the powder coated blade.
https://www.kabar.com/product_detail.js ... y/Tactical

I used to have a Gov't Agent but someone ran off with it.
I personally know people with all of these blades and they've put them through paces similar to the paces I plan to run.

Anyone want to help me make up my mind?

-snowy
 

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This is the knife I drag around the field.



Current version of an original concept for an arctic survival knife designed for military use in 1960. A heavy edged tool for really tough bushwork. 18cm blade. Made to military specifications. Left-side leather scabbard. Sheffield made.

I know its not pretty and its not a combat knife but it handles all the cutting, hacking, chopping, digging that I can dish out.
 

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Personally, I like the Gov't Agent as I've stated in previous entries. Another good choice is the Swamp Works Desert Rat. It's significantly larger than the SOG, but will stand up to any kind of abuse. They have other good choices as well. I forget their website, but you shopuld be able to find it with a Google search. Good luick.

K2
 

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snowy said:
Hey all, I know I'm opening up a can of worms but...

I'm looking for a knife to drag around in the field. I'm partial to fixed blades for their outdoor use.

I have an SOG Desert, but it is a little too "bright" if you know what I mean.

I'm trying to decide between:

The SOG Gov't Agent with a powder coated blade.
http://www.sogknives.com/govern.htm

The SOG SEAL.
http://www.sogknives.com/seal2k.htm

Or that new Ka-Bar with the powder coated blade.
https://www.kabar.com/product_detail.js ... y/Tactical

-snowy
I have the SEAL 2000 knife... and i LOVE it... it holds up great in the salt water that i frequent in my line of work. However... the KA-BAR D2 is made out of the D2 steel... so... depending on what you are going to do... i would say the KA-BAR D2 would be much better for "regular" all around use... but if you plan on going diving in salt water with this knife... i would get the SEAL 2000 knife... as far as the "Gov Agent" knife goes... i never had one... but a friend of mines does and he bought the SEAL 2000 knife to replace it... :)
 

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Theres an insider joke.... "What are three ways you can tell a SEAL from a regular Military guy?.... a SEAL has a Rolex... walks around without a shirt on... and carries a Bench Made knife..."

This is true for the few guys i know. :lol: Check out the Bench Made knifes... i know most of the Army Navy Stores carry them.
 

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yeah those those are issued rolex watches. that is why all seals have one. htey are rolex diving watches.there are pretty damn sweet but to expensive for me.i will stick with my casio g shock. i prefer digital underwater anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This will be my field and outdoor knife.
I don't want shine giving my position away and I'm looking for something that can live with me.

Something for regular and the occasional heavy duty outdoor work.

Something that can get soaked along with its sheath and hold up.
I don't like grinding cancer.
I prefer something that can be rehoned by hand (not by spinning tool) and return reasonably to the previous cutting ability.

I usually camp with my desert dagger and it stands up fine.

I had a Gov't Agent before and loved it, but I'm thinking about trying something new.
The Gov't Agent had the best balance on a blade I've ever felt.

I like heft of the Ka Bar and the grip of the SEAL.

I doubt I'll be dissatisfied with any of the blades, but you never know.

BC how often does your SEAL knife need edge maintenance?
K2 how does the tang of your Gov't Agent stand up in wet conditions?

I've heard some people say the kraton grips trap water inside the screw down pommel, any truth?

Thanks for the input everyone.
I'll post pics of whatever I do manage to get.

-snowy
 

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Well... since i go swimmin in salt water with my SEAL 2K knife i sharpen it almost every 2 weeks when we are deployed or we go for a lil swim in the pond... but thats simply because the salt water and cleansing showers we walk through after getting out of the water have some solvents and cleaners in the water so it does need to be sharpened every few weeks or so when we are doing lots of excersizes. But... i have taken the D2 KA-BAR swimming and it didnt seem to dull it at all. Im guessing its because of the really good D2 steel... its very durable. Like i said... if you were going to be swimmin in the ocean or any other harsh enviornment i would pick the SEAL 2K... but if you are using it just out in the field and you want a good knife that is real strong... get the KA-BAR D2. They are different knifes made for different things. The KA-BAR D2 was specifically designed for long term use without the need for resharpening... yes you do have to resharpen it ... just not as much. The SEAL 2K knife was designed for the "Operator" in mind... or any other person who spends alot of time in the water. Keep in mind the SEAL 2K knife was designed by a real deal SEAL... not some computer aided designer.

As far as the Gov Agent knife goes... ive never had one... so i couldnt tell ya. A friend of mine replaced his "Gov Agent" knife with a SEAL 2K knife. As far as im conserned i wouldnt even consider the "Gov Agent" knife... it would be between the KA-BAR D2 and the SEAL 2K... it depends on what your going to be doign with it. For a more "practical civilian" use... i think the KA-BAR D2 would be better. I mean... how often are you going to be cutting 550 cord 75 feet under the ocean surface? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Underwater 550

Not too much salt water around here.
I'm generally known for not coming in out of the rain or snow (hence the name) so my work gear can stay pretty wet. I generally go with condura sheaths so things can air out as best they can when they get a chance and that bumps the prices up.

D2 is good stuff, but a tad pricey.

As of right now I'm leaning toward the SEAL Knife as it is much less expensive and I've never really heard any complaints about it.

No I don't cut 550 under water.
I do cut 550 when I practice making emergency shelters a couple times a year, I usually keep a bit of 550 around when I'm out of doors as it has come in handy more than once.

I do like staying in the woods for as long as possible and I like a decent sized blade for leverage and light cutting up to mid-chopping.
I generally like to stay out as long as I can self sufficiently. I try to do this using as little gear as possible.
I like seeing what I can leave behind and still manage.

I also like buying higher quality higher dollar infrequently rather than low price low quality frequently.

I'm pretty sure it is going to be the SEAL.
Unless the net surprises me with a good deal.

Thanks for the input everyone.

-snowy
 

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If your out in the snow or water i would go with the SEAL 2K knife... it tends to not mind water as much as the D2 KA-BAR.
 

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snowy,

The Seal knife is made of AUS6 while it is more resistant to rus than a Ka-Bar in D2 steel it does have its downsides.

The Seal knife is made of AUS 6 which has a Rockwell of 56-58 which already puts it at a disavantage because the Ka-Bar in D2 has a Rc of 59-60 which you will notice in the field since sharpening and edge holding will be issues.

AUS6 is not a very hard steel and if anyone can tell a real user difference between this and 440a, I would be very surprised. When push comes to shove, edge holding is slightly lower on AUS6.

D2 a very good steel, rated up there with 154cm, M2, 5160 and 52100 which is like 5160 only superior.

D2 is not a stainless steel but due to its high chromium , it tends withstand rust a little better than its high carbon counterparts in harsh conditions. Which is why, if you notice, D2 is often coated with a poweder coat, as overprotection plus improves concealment use. Cold Steel also coats basically ANY blade they make in Carbon V. Also Very high carbon steel but this steel does rust much easier than D2, due to the lack in chromium whic is found in D2.

I'm actually getting a Ka-Bar in D2 . World class edge holding capabilities and sharpens with some ease. A joke to call this even semi stainless steel hence treated also as high carbon steel.

Out of all of the ones you presented, I would choose the Ka-Bar in D2 steel, especially if edge holding or sharpening will not be possible in your conditions.

Good luck bud. 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
D2

D2 has an excellent edge retention, but the hardness of the metal actually makes it much more difficult to rehone by hand.

Rockwell 56-58 make in field edge retention much easier. While D2 will hold an edge longer it will be nearly impossible to fully resharpen in the field. The human hands and any sort of sharpening surface simply can't make a dent. Tooling will be necessary to bring back the full edge. You will also want to make sure that whomever resharpens D2 is aware of the angle and the proper degree set by the manufacturer. A bench grinder will NOT do it and neither will a knife sharpener made for kitchen cutlery.

D2 is susceptible to impregnation from a normal grinding wheel.
If you want to see D2 rust, resharpen it on your garage bench grinder.

The difference between Rockwell 56 and 60 cannot be detected without a microscope.
AUS 6 while not as hard is still very hard and can be resharpened in the field without loss to the edge surface.

As far as D2 is concerned, it is stainless steel.
10-30% Chromium content is makes stainless steel... stainless steel. Without chromium it is called carbon steel. All steel is by nature carbon steel. You can use many alloying processes to give steel desired qualities, but it will remain steel.

5210 depending on application can be very brittle. Calling one metal "superior" to another is about as apples and oranges as you can get.
If the metal was 6000 grade it would simply be completely pure steel and it would be very brittle.
Neither metal is superior, they both have individual uses. Its all in what your looking for I suppose.

I'm much more interested in knife design and individual experiences with the aforementioned knives. Design and application has just as much of an effect on a knife's ability as anything else.

I think I'm pretty sold on the SEAL.
Thanks for the input though.

-snowy
 

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Anyone's selection is and will have to be use-dependent.

D2 is a good chrome-vanadium tool steel; it has 12.5% chromium, which is not enough to make it stainless. I think your percentages on its chromium content are high. I've seen as high as 13, 14 even up to 15 but not anywhere near 30% chromium as this would severly alter any steel's make up :shock: especially D2!

I've yet to see D2 classified as a stainless steel. Ive seen it classified as a high-carbon, non-stainless, tool steel or even hard compound steel but not plain "stainless steel". Its just not in its composition to be classified as such. :wink:

As far as the Rc ratings, I will say that it is not an all inclusive fixed figure, like with any naturally occuring substance it does vary, plus after treatments, it could go anywhere after good, bad or simple no treatment.

Good luck with the Seal.

I considered it too, but for my particular use I need something with world class edge retention. Plus I'm pretty experienced with knives as well, more so then with guns and can put a good edge with a quality diamond sharperner, while maintaining the Ka-Bar 20 degree edge. Serrations are always a *****, but I've got my tricks forthem. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hmm... :?

Let just say I "don't agree" in a friendly manner.

I was going to get material data sheets out and lay a bunch of numbers on the screen in a very "I was a fabrication welder for 4 years and my Grandfather was a machinist for 40 years" kind of way, but I'll skip it.

I've talked enough about metals on this board for awhile.
I'm not here to bicker, I'm here to learn and talk shop.

If anyone is interested in the chemical make up of D2 steel, the rockwell hardness scale, the competitors to the rockwell hardness scale, the unmachinable nature of D2 steel, the categories of stainless and tool steels or any other of my welding/fabricating/metallurgy data book mumbo jumbo PM me.

We are all precision oriented people (we definitely nit pick enough to prove it) and we've got to take personal responsibility for the precision and quality of this board.

So I agree with BC, lets keep topics on topic.

-snowy
 

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Don't know what to say snowy but that I disagree "in a friendly way" too.

Especially about your high 30% chromium content in D2 steel.

Anyway, I thought this was the thread topic? :?


Noone has to take my word for it, as you stated there are charts and data sheets that state chemical composition for D2 steel and who wants to research that....

Oh wait, you guys coould ask Google. :wink:
 

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