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941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #321 ·
I haven't tried the Mk 60mm as a clipon yet (to busy using it as a rifle scope) ... but I thought I'd try the new IR-Patrol.

That's the Patrol in front of a Burris xtr2 1.5-8x cq-mil scope.

The reverse USGI 3x (pvs-14) magnifier is screwed in to the back of the PVS-14 lens on the rear of the patrol. This shrinks the clipon mode image in the patrol and might also extend the focal length of the lens on the rear of the patrol. However it works, I'm getting about the same 8x out of this sucquer I got out of the SNIPE. Those of you making hollywood movies out of the backs of your day scopes might need to stop at 5-6x, but it is WAY better than the 1x you get just using the raw 14 lens on the back of the patrol.

Thanks to Pete ***** of i2 tech for the tip. I don't care what they say Pete you are a GENIUS !!! :D

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #322 ·
Finally got new NF 7-35x Tremor-3 scope. Was 6 weeks in the waiting ...

Mounting on .50BMG today. I will probably first shoot it off the .300WM, but mounting it on the .50 since he has no scope right now. Everything seems to fit.


941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #323 ·
Weekend summary

.50BMG familiarization
Night Force 7-35x tremor-3
spec rest tripod

Fired 11 rounds of API reloads, my "plinking" ammo.

8 from 100yds and 3 from 500yds.

5 of the 8 from 100 were from the tripod and 3 from prone.
The 3 from 500 were from prone.

The first two off the tripod both caused the gun to come out of battery.
I removed the bipod and seated the forward tripod yoke in the bipod slot.
That solved the out of battery issue.

The wind was still blowing me around too much for zeroing standing up, so
I switched to prone.

The rounds were still moving around too much, so I checked the scope. I torqued down
the ring screws, but I forgot to torque down the mount screws. The mount was loose.
I hand tightened and the wobbling stopped.
I got 3 rounds in the 10 ring at 100yds, but call those random hits.
I still wanted to try 500yds because I thought I was close enough to get on paper.

So I moved to 500yds and fired. The hold was 2.4 up. But I was low with all three rounds.
The sight height was 2.75 inches and later I checked it and that was correct.
I think I was "muscling". If any gun does not require muscle it should be this one,
since it is 25 pounds empty.

I got some decent practice moving this crap around. The tripod is 50 pounds, the gun
is around 30 pounds. The 150rds of API felt like another 40 pounds.

Got practice removing and reinstalling bipod, had never done that before.

Got practice tearing down and setting up.

The most surprising aspect was that the felt recoil, was significantly less from the tripod
than from prone, that is, once I got the out of battery situation taken care of.

The magnetospeed worked fine. I checked it after every round and it remained tight.

But I wonder if the magnetospeed affects the bullet flight path. Like you can
sort of "pre-zero" with the ms on there, but need to take it off to
tighten up zero?

The raptar mount came loose. I don't have a tool to torque down one of the
screws, it is down in a long hole. But I increased the torque on the
other screw to 22.5 up from 15 and hand tightened the one in the hole as much
as I dared. They make long armed bits and I have a few, but not a T10 (yet).

Creek walk
L&S mk6 3-18x tremor-3
m190 tripod
ops core bump with comms

This is in preparation for a group night walk in 3 weeks. Wanted to first practice
in the day with light load.

Walked a mile in the creek and along banks. Setup and the tripod twice and scanned
into surrounding fields. Also leaned against trees and scanned.
I realized I don't know how to adjust the diopter on this sucquer.
Later I looked at the manual, but it tells you how to adjust for mk4s and this
is a mk6. I don't want to turn the eyepiece too hard and break sommething, so I will
call L&S Tuesday. So that made things a bit fuzzy even with parallax removed.
But I could still see fine. Cows at 3 miles were identifiable on 18x.
Some folks think Kansas is totally flat. Not around here in the flint hills.

Moving up and down the banks requires care, it is quite slippery with plenty of mud.
When I got back in the house, the bipod fell off. The keymod came loose.
Something else to check.


ODIN as a clipon in front of Burris 536. Tried the reverse 14 3x magnifier on
the back of the ODIN, which is a pvs-14 lens. It is a little fuzzy at 5x but the
main problem is parallax. I will try it, but I don't expect it to be accurate
enough to hit mice at 25 yds. You have a 2 inch target and the parallax wobble
might be able that. But I will try it.
It could be these reverse 3x thingies will work on parallax free or parallax adjustable
scopes, but not of non-adjustables.
The M69 mount is nice because it allows the optic to be raised or lowered
to line up the verticle.
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Discussion Starter · #324 ·
Attempted to test ability for PVS-14 3x magnifier screwed on behind ODIN monoccular, to act as "clipon" for Burris 536 scope on .22LR.

Here is the .22lr upper with the ODIN, 3x magnifier and 536 scope installed, prior to the activity.


Here is the .22LR on the tripod at 25m. I zero the .22LR at 25m (or yds previously) because the .22lr is used as a "ratter" and critter control system around the coop ... and typical engagement distances run from 10yds to 60yds ... and the eley 36gr subsonic double zero is 25/50 m.

This was one of the easiest zeros I've done. Three 3 rd groups, off the tripod, tight enough for my purposes, my goal is 2 inch accurate and precision as that will take out the rats and mice. First three round group low and right, second 3 rd group low and right but closer, ,third 3 rd group dead center.


Then mounted the ODIN on the M69 mount with the 14 3x magnifier on the rear. Fired 10rds in pairs. Kept adjusting the odin reticle, but even wild adjustments made little impact on the POI. After 10 rds, I tried adjusting the ODIN height up a little on the M69 mount. Fired another 8 rds in pairs. By holding at 11 o'clock on the outside of the circle of this scope (a circle dot 5x scope) I was able to get within 3 inches of the center of the handwarmer.

Then fired 8 rds with aim point a tad to the 4 o'clock, that is with a gap about 1/3 the thickness of the circle in between the circle at 11 o'clock at the lower right corner of the handwarmer. That put most of the rds on the handwarmer.

Unfortunately, I do not think this is a viable solution for controlling rats. Tiny amounts of change in the POA produce wide changes in the POI. So I am calling this idea a no-go with the ODIN. Will try with the Patrol, maybe it will work better. And will first try with less magnification on the day scope, the 5x might be an issue.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #325 · (Edited)

Goals: .50BMG(32) at 100yds and 500yds

Environment: Big melt going on after a week of the thickest ice on the ground we've had. It was pretty dry before the ice, so we've had worse mud, but not in the past year.

Equipment: Barrett M099, 32 inch barrel. Spec-Rest tripod, turbodyne suppressor, Night Force ATACR 7-35x Tremor-3 F1, Ken Farrell custom 20 moa 21 inch base. 647gr API reloads. Shooter Ballistic Calculator.

Activity: Wanted to be able to see all the holes without having to walk to the targets, so setup white paper with purple 3/4 inch dots.

Setup at 100yds. Removed bipod to enable M-99 bipod chassis slot to slid over the front yoke on the tripod. This keeps the gun "in battery" on the tripod and transfers a lot more energy to the tripod.

Detailed Firing Cycle:

Bring bolt to the rear

Check that safety is on.

Check suppressor tightness.

Check tripod alignment and screw tightness for yoke mounts and master elevation knob.

Check scope, scope mount, base and raptar mount for tightness.

Place one round in the breech, all the way to the rear up against the bolt face.

Get on the gun in proper position and move the bolt forward, increasing the velocity of the forward motion of the bolt gradually until the velocity is significant as you reach the forward extent of the cycle (I dry fired practicing cycling the gun in the house 100+ times with dummy rounds learning how to load, etc.)

Close the bolt.

Get off the gun.

From the left side of the gun look thru the scope without touching the gun. If your cheek brushes the gun lightly, ok, but do not acheive cheek, stock weld puts too much muscle on the gun.

Adjust the tripod fine elevation knob to bring the elevation point of hold on to the target.

Read the mirage.

release the tripod deflection lock, pan to the point of desired deflection and lock that in.

Continue to adjust tripod elevation and deflection until they are exactly where you want them. This then is the natural position (NPA = Natural Point of Aim) for the weapons system for this shot.

Now engage the system with the shooter. I place my left hand on the tripod and my right hand on the trigger and the pistol grip as if I am fring a prescion rifle (for instance use Frank G.'s method or other as preferred).

Aim, by bringing the system back to the same NPA you locked in earlier.

Slowly squeeze the trigger. The break of the trigger MUST be a surprise.

After the round goes down range, eject the brass and leave the bolt to the rear.

Place the system on safe.

Move the elevation and deflection controls on the tripod to put the scope back on target to observe the fall of shot.

If zeroing, adjust the SCOPE elevation or windage knobs as indcated by the results.

Continue this process until done shooting current sequence.

So, I had to figure out the "double aiming" system, not doing that last weekend explained the "strange" results.

It is interesting how shooting the .50BMG(32) emphasizes many things you know you should do, but sometimes might hurry thru. WIth the .50BMG(32) you MUST do everything as precisely as possible or you will miss.

The NPA aiming process is not an option with this system.

Removing parallax while setting up at a new position is not an option.

Slow trigger squeeze and being surprised is not an option (i.e. avoid jerk).

Being tight up to the gun and directly behind the gun is not an option, to manage the recoil. This thing doesn't hurt, but it moves you back a few inches.

At 100yds, the first group was an attempt to work out the above "2-step" aiming process, which had never occured to me before, but as I did it, it made total sense.
The tripod comes with no instructions beyond assembly and lube, so you have to figure out how to mount your weapon and how to shoot with it. And that is fine.

Group 02 was a one mil down change on elevation.

Group 03 did not involve any elevation changes (beyond an initial 0.5 mil up change from group 02), windage only. First trying 2 clicks back and forth. Once I clicked the wrong way (hole out to the right). I finally got to the point where I was clicking back and forth one click and moving the POI just to the left and right of the dot.

After 13 rounds, I decided enough and I would try 500yds. So tear down, move and setup. Getting practice doing that.

At 500yds, the kestrel said 3 mph SSW. New Shooter app said 2.4 mils up. So I held .1 mils left and 2.4 mils up and followed the above process. Lock the tripod in on that setting without touching the gun, then get on the gun, to muscle it out of position and then muscle it back in. And BTW, we have to touch the gun because the tripod is not a hard hold. The "yokes" are rubber. So the shooter must participate in the recoil management.

First round was to the right (showing 3 5/8 in the pic).

I noted the migrage was laying flat over, so I called the wind at 10 MPH and held 0.5 mils left per Shooter. Second round was left.

Migrage said the wind had died, but I still felt some, back to .1 mil left hold.
There is some wobble as again this is not a bench rest. But I manage the wobble just like I do with the manfrottos. Put the center of the wobble on the POA.

Results: So 6.25 / (5 * 1.047) = 1.265 is the MOA group size. That's good enough for maybe 1,500 yards on 20x40 steel, if every thing was linear. Everything is not linear, so maybe really 1,000 ... so not good enough for the ELR comps I hope to attend this year, so more work to do!
I'd call it a 2 MOA setup for now with probably half of that being me.

Progress made working out how to shoot this setup.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #326 ·




Goal: Coop patrol

Environment: Winds 25 to 35 mph last 24 hours. Causing poor thermal performance. Sea of grey. The critters show up fine, but the terrain is fuzzy and shades of grey.

Equipment: .22LR(16) with ODIN 17mm 1x 320(30) on M69 mount. Eley 36gr hp sub.

Activity: Around behind the barn saw rat at 10yds, aim for top of back (zeroed at 25yds, have to hold up between 0-10yds). Rat thrashed around and then dead,

From 40yds saw larger than rat sized critter behind run attached to coop. But did not want to shoot thru run (steel grating). So shuffled to the right and stood still for 2 min and repeated. I think critter noticed me, it stopped and looked, but I was still. Eventually I shuffled enough to get a line of fire then fired and it dropped. Turned out to be a giant jackrabbit. The rat looks tiny compared to the rabbit. The rat was hand length (not counting tail) but not full hand width. Rabbit was the largest Jackrabbit I've seen. If you hang with the rats and act like the rats, you get shot like the rats.

Continued along creek bank and saw rat and bird in a bush. Continued to approach. The rat climbed higher into the center of the bush, the bird flew away. At 20yds stopped and fired at rat, he feel down onto the ground. This bush is about 20 feet across and he was in the middle of it and it is a prickly bush, so waited until morning to fish him out with a stick and take all the pics. This was a larger rat. Full hand sized. Had been well fed.

Results/Summary: The M-69 mount is a game changer compared to using the PVS-14 ring mount as a weapons mount for the ODIN. There is some play in the ring mount. If running PVS-14 behind an EOTECH, the play is not an issue because the reticle is in the EOTECH. But with the ODIN, the play was causing 2 inches of random POI shift at 25yds and some of the mice I shoot at are 2 inches long, so that amount of play is a show stopper. The M-69 mount fixes the problem. Thanks for Pete at I2 for suggesting.
With the acquisition of the Patrol, the ODIN is now the backup intermediate distance head mounted scanner and so can switch primary purpose to being on the .22lr as the rat gun.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #327 ·
25 MPH W

Goal: Coop overwatch.

Environment: Wind still averaging 25-35 it dies down a bit, then it picks up a bit. Clear skies tonight, Orion to the West.

Equipment: I decided to bring more gun tonight. I am prepping for night walk this coming weekend so using 5.56(10.3) for that, so have it torn down cleaning. So took
6.5G(18), L&S 3-18x T-3, UTC-x RA{TAR. 123 AMAX. M055 Tripod with 322RC2 head.

Activity: Went out and setup tripod in the center of the building area. This offers fields of fire in all directions, between all the buildings: 415 meters up hill to the West, 1700 meters to the west, 250 meters to the S and 600 meters to the North. To the East is a wood and I can see critters about 200-250 meters into the woods depending on how large they area.
So, I was scanning about nucing and zooming in and out and checking distances with the RAPTAR and focusing. After about 30mins, I was still scanning and was on 3x so I had the widest FOV. I saw a fairly larger critter moving in the woods. When you see a critter in these woods, you see bits and pieces of it through the gaps in the vegetation so you can't usually tell what it is. I see a lot of deer traversing through there, so I figured it was a deer but it could've been one of my cows, they sometimes move along the banks of the creek back there. I continued to watch, but the critter must have gone behind an embankment about 100 meters into the woods and I could no longer see it. It was heading north towards the alfalfa patch. I scanned back and forth, from where I saw the critter - to the alfalfa patch, waiting to catch a glimpse of it. Eventually it appeared near the fence and approached the fence. I still thought it was a deer, but noted it was a small one. Then it passed through the fence (not over) and in to the open and starting trotting across the alfalfa patch now heading West. I could tell it was a yote by size and trot and tail. I used the "trap" lead. I estimated 110 meters and I was aiming slightly down so I held level with the jaw and fired right before the nose reached my cross hair. The front half of the yote went straight down. I checked the distance with the RAPTAR - it was 141 meters, farther than I thought! Then I took the setup in the house and grabbed the 4-wheeler to go check the yote. The alfalfa patch is on the other side of the creek and across a fence, so easier to get there on the 4-wheeler across bridge thru gate 1/4 mile away.

The entrance wound is on the neck.

The exit wound on the shoulder as I was on the critters front left quarter when I fired. The AMAX round still has a nasty exit wound on a yote.

He was a pretty scrawny yote, but it has been a cold winter with 2 weeks of sub 20F weather 24x7 and a week of ice also sub 20F. Distance to the coop from the gun on the tripod was 41 meters, and the yote was about 15 degrees to the right so just over 100 meters from the coop and heading towards the apple orchard in the general direction of the coop, but other side of the creek bed.

Results/Summary: Well 3x was plenty of magnification. But even though I know a lot of distances on my land, once they get out in the alfalfa patch ... an 18 acre flat field, there are few landmarks. I need to learn to push the range button before I shoot, that's why the dang raptar is on there. But this was the first critter I ever shot with it on there and I was focused on the critter. But I was out there practicing with it and checking ranges and seeing them with my support eye while keeping my aiming eye looking thru the scope. It can be done and I was practicing it. Just not once the yote showed up :D

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #328 ·

Goal: Setup ir-illum and radius on 5.56(18)

Environment: Low wind finally, clear skies, Orion visible to the South. I was able to catch the Orion Nebula (in the sword) ... that's one thing NV can do that Thermal cannot do is serve as an ersatz star-gazing telescope.

Equipment 5.56(18) with Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil. Radius. Luna ELIR-3. PVS-30, M055, 322RC2.

Activity: Went out and set up the tripod in the center of the building area. Was able to get the sword of Orion in the scope at 15x ... Looking at the mineral feeder at 435yds, there was a lot of scintillation, so I cranked down on the gain on the 30. That cleared up the image. Again focusing the 30 is easier than the UTC due to the knobs that stick out from the focus ring.
I could not see into the alfalfa patch, ambient light bouncing off the trees along the creek bank obscured the alfalfa patch. With the thermal I see right thru the tree line over to the treeline on the other side of the alfalfa patch at 572 yds, but not with the 30.
I co-witnessed the ir-illuminator using the farthest thing I could see (on the ground) the mineral feeder at 435yds. But illuminator does not help see through the trees, it increases the washout along tree lines. It will help see items in the open or in shadows.
The co-witnesses the viz-laser in the radius and was able to range a few know distance items.
This setup is now ready for the field.
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Discussion Starter · #329 · (Edited)

Goal: Team night walk

Environment: The property was about 400 meters wide by 800 meters long. There was a hill in the center of the property. The land was very rough with large boulders, gullies, fallen trees and the woods where thick with lots of close interlocking branches. There was a rough "road" thru the property. This was a no moon night as moon rise would happen at 3am after our scheduled stop time.

Equipment: I had PVS-14 and IR-Patrol on Helmet and 5.56(10.3) with Mk3 60mm. Also had pack with water bladder, protein bars, first aid kit. Had USGI compass and pace beads on outside gear.

Blue had two 4 man teams and Red had one 4 man team. Red would be setup in a camp in roughly the middle of the property near the North side of the top of the hill.
Blue Team 01 rode in a vehicle to the South end of the property. BLue Team 02 would move on foot from the North end of the property.
IIRC 8 people had at least one PVS-14. The two blue team had 2 thermals for each team (4 total) and the Red team had one thermal. 4 people had no helmet mounted NODs.

We all had USGI BFA on our weapons and no ammo.
Each Team leader had a radio.
The Team leads all had some land nav and comms experience.


After an initial safety briefing, we split up into team and performed a practice walk. We walked about 100 meters up hill along with road, then the various team split up and went into the woods for about another 100 meters. This got us used to moving and communicating in teams.
We then returned to base.

The OPFOR team (Red) were also the referees. They gave each team lead their orders and then there was some planning time. Our team had a map and plotted out our planned route.
I would start out as tail end charlie (#4) and would be doing 360s periodically. The team would pause if needed to let me catch up. I gave my carbine + mk3 to #3 ... the team leader was #2 ... and point was #1.
The second thermal with #3 would enable the team lead, who only had 1xPVS-14 to quickly request a thermal check of a given area. I would be able to continue to check flanks and rear or help double check and area of interest.

Team 2s start point was the North center of the property. We would to march to a point designated as "OP" in the center East side of the property. Then "link up" with team 01. Locate the enemy camp, then coordinate an assault.

We worked out the planned line of march within our team and passwords, etc. with the other team. Team #2 and the OPFOR team then departed in a vehicle.

Our team started out on foot. The team leader called a halt quickly as the radio was not working, so everyone when down in kneeling/holding position in 360 coverage. After working with the radio and changing the batteries, we then resumed our march. We were going up a steep gully full of big boulders, trees and branches. It was slow going. #3 and #4 were supposed to be counting beads but it was tough in this terrain. We took frequent listening breaks. We hydrated and I did more 360s to make sure no critters were visible. After about 175 meters, the team leader did a longer halt, checked the map, did a radio check with the other team, asked for our bead counts (I had 1 but was thinking of clicking the second #3 had 2). Then we departed from the large gully and headed NE into the woods. The woods were thick with overlapping branches, lots of downed trees and branches and lots of boulders big and small. Big like the size of a person, small like the size of a foot ball. I continued to do as many 360s as I could. I expected the OPFOR to not be in the camp, but instead to be out trying to sneak up on our flanks and rear, so I was checking that out as much as possible.
At some point, we could see the top of the hill, due to some ambient light (another house on another property) on the other side of the hill. The team lead then changed the order of march, I was now #1 and the former point was now #4. Presumably, contact was expected and my helmet mounted thermal would be able to detect earliest. So I requested direction of march and got a point. Started moving. Selecting the route thru the trees, branches, down trees/branches boulders took most of my attention, but I stopped and did 90 degree forward scans every few steps. Eventually, I detected a critter and went down. The other critter went down also and I knew we were dealing with humans. I told the team lead we had one human to our front at about 20 meters. I continued to watch the human, the TL got on the radio. The human started waving, I told the team lead. After more radio chatter, the TL rose up and headed towards the human. another human rose up and headed towards the team lead. I could then see 3 humans from another team.
#3 and #4 from our team had closed up and I let them know what was happening. I asked #3 to check flanks and rear with thermal. Eventually our TL waved us forward and I told #3 and #4 TL was calling us forward and we should move now.
We did and the link up was completed. Team two then proceeded almost directly North from the link up position and I quickly saw "something" due West so we went down again. I was looking under a downed tree and saw definite critter.
I then looked over the top of the tree and saw two humans and a fire, very clearly.
The critter under the tree was something else.
So TL called Tm 01 and then told me to advance directly towards the camp. I did, except I found a path where LOS was blocked by numerous trees close to the LOS saw followed that path. As soon as we started moving a hawk flew up from its meal (probably rat) and screeched and later during AAR everyone said they heard it. Camp was 50 yds. We advanced half that distance then halted, them both team leads called for the assault and we went on line and advanced while shouting "bang bang" ... I got to about 10yds and saw one human roll off the top of a huge boulder and crash to the ground ... very realistic looking!
When were then on the objective and the exercise was over. It turned out the TL#1 had fallen off the back side of a giant boulder by mistake. I had assumed it was part of the simulation but it was a real fall. Fortunately, he was not injured, beyond some scrapes.
We then lined up and marched back out of the woods in our three teams and back to the start point. About 300 meters?
We then did AAR. OPFOR said they could not hear us moving thru the woods. They saw us with their thermal (EO Tech 320) before they heard us. That was most surprising as We thought we were making huge amounts of crashing noise in the woods.
My usual shooting buddy James, was point on Team #1 when it turned out, I was point for team #2 and we both worked out that we saw each other and the same time and both went down at the same time. He was the one I saw waving.
Team #1 had been able to walk to the link up position from the vehicle debark point down the "road" so they never had to crash thru the woods except during the assault, whereas my team spent a solid 90m moving uphill thru the woods.

Results/Summary: Besides Hog hunting, this is the first time I have done a night exercise with >2 people with NV/thermal. So, it was very interesting seeing three groups of 4 trying to coordinate their activities. And I have to say it was largely successful.
The main issue I saw was intra-team comms. Our TL was trying to talk very quietly. My balaklava was preventing my hearing 80% of his words, so I had to deduce. I probably got about 60% from gestures or explicit hand signals, but not all of it. Having a second intrateam radio net with everyone having headsets etc. would solve this issue.
The first guy we had on point did an amazing job feeling his way through the woods as he had no NODs. Our #3 had no NOD on head, but he had my 60mm thermal, so he could see well when we were halted, but not so well when we were moving. We all deployed cats eyes on our rear facing equipment to help team mates see man in front of them.
The frequent listening breaks let me hydrate and catch my breadth. I was surprised I did not get exhausted to the point of issue during the exercise, I left my 20s behind more than 3 weeks ago!
James had 2xPVS14 and a COTI on his head and a PATROL on his carbine. He had an issue with the COTI mount. He also decided to stow the 14 + COTI in his bag about 2/3rds of the way thru the exercise to give him more peripheral vision. Perhaps I should've done that, but I wanted the thermal up there to detect.
Team #1 were in position and stationary when he/I spotted each other and he was scanning with patrol on carbine. We spotted each other with our patrols.
None of my team members fell, despite the rough terrain. In walking around in my woods which are similar, I've developed the technique of holding on to branches to keep me upright. I can tell by how the branches bend how much weight they can bear, do not have to see them. And this helped me a lot especially when I was point.
Also, when pushing way through entertwined branches I turn around and push thru with my back, this is easier and branches aren't scrapping my face.
It was an interesting exercise.
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Discussion Starter · #330 ·
For the first time evah I was able to download still images from an OASYS core device!

These are from the above night walk, from the patrol on my head.


Teams in the prep area


Blue Team 2 (my team) heading out in order of March, Point (#1), Team Lead with radio (#2), #3 with my mk3 60mm and I am #4 taking the pic.


Back at base chatting after the exercise


941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #331 · (Edited)
5-10 MPH SW

Goal: Zero 5.56(18)

Environment: Light breeze, no moon, stars very visible, Orion to the West, B. Dipper to the East. Orion nebula very bright with the PVS30.

Equipment: 5.56(18), Burris xtr2 3-15x scr-mil, Radius, PVS-30, BH 77gr SMK, PVS-14+PAS29

Activity: Rolled out to target area in buggy using 14 on a lanyard. When dismounted, made occasional 360s with the COTI turned on.

The bipod keymd rail came off, this is second time. Cannot be put back on in the field. Not allowed to abort for equipment failure unless task cannot be done or safety issue. Setup targets, 100yd NRA paper targets. Made them all abut so first shot could be aimed at center of the 4 targets. I usually use 20rd PMAGs with the 5.56(18) which are good for prone bipod, but not so good as monopods. Set up at 100yds. Used rear bag under the 20 rd mag prone as the monopod. Support arm on elbow under forearm. This setup is very top and front heavy so had to put down pressure on the butt stock with check to help stabilize as well. First round was high right. Could not crank down, need to adjust zero stop, not tool-less on these scopes. Cranked 3 clicks left. Fired 4 rd group at lower left target. Two inch all in the blank but still high right. Cranked 7 clicks left, fired 5 rd group at lower right, 2 inch group slightly left, clicked two clicks right, fired 5 rd group upper left, 2 inch group centered, but 2 inches high. I am pseudo zeroed at 50yds (2 inches high at 100yds is about same as zeroed at 50yds).

Drove out into pasture to "random" spot ... and setup and lased target, got 311, 312, 312, for the three ranging attempts. Shooter said up 0.7 ... stood facing wind to determine direction, 240 degrees off bullet path guesstimated 5 mph gusting to 10 mph, decided to hold 6 inches left as steel is 12 inches across. Could not see steel. Even with ELIR3 on could not see steel, but I could see the legs and over head support for the steel. So I knew where the target was even though I could not see it. Held 0.7 up and 6 inches left, fired 5 rds all clanged.

Results/Summary: The gun is heavy (16 pounds 7 oz as fired) and top and front loaded ... so not easy to control as I was shooting it ... but 311yds on 12 inch steel definitely doable. The radius worked. The hardest part for focusing the 30 and that is because I really could not reach the focus ring from behind the gun, I had to slip forward a bit to turn it.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #332 ·

Goals: 6.5G(18) rezero

Environment: Overcast, small amount of mirage during most of zeroing, then a ton of mirage showed up. Mirage is good and bad. Wind was highly variable in direction and intensity.

Equipment: 6.5G(18), NF 7-35x Tremor-3, 123 AMAX, Bushy AE 1600

Activity: Setup at 91 meters and ran 5 rds off the tripod with the magnetospeed. The avg speed was 2422 with SD 12. Previous 5 rds was 2413 SD 12.5 So I split the difference with 2417 and SD 12.2.
Then zeroed at 100yds prone.

Then went to 500yds (known distance). Throwing dirt up in the high for wind direction. First it blew from 90 off the bullet path. Later it blew from 180 off the bullet path and after that the dirt went straight up and came straight down.
The mirage was boiling.
The orange dots I put in the center of the paper target were jumping around 0.2 mil in the reticle in all directions.
The wind was highly variable in direction and intensity.
AB said 3.7 up and I guess 0.2 right for wind.

First 5 rd group at the paper. Elevation is decent, but wind stringing me out.

Then 5 rd group at the steel. I remembered to paint it first.

Then went to 663 meters (unknown distance lased with Bushy). That's 725yds. AB said up 7.3. Krestrel said 5.5 MPH from 90 degrees off the bullet path or 0.6 right.

I could not see the target prone so switched to tripod sitting.

The mirage was still bad.

First round the dust was a few inches left and high. I reduced wind hold by .2 and elevation hold by .2 (5 inches) I'm shooting down hill but not sure by how much, but probably enough to make me a little high.

Second rd was hit, repeated, third rd was hit.

Results/Summary: The NF sure is good at seeing the mirage !!! Mirage is good as it gives you a good read on the wind. Mirage is bad because is makes the target jump around and it makes the target fuzzy. Backing off on the magnification reduces the fuzzy a bit. I think I read messing with the parallax can reduce the jumping around, but I messed with the parallax and I didn't see the jumping around stop. Will go hunt for those words.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #333 ·

Goals: Test new configs with .22LR(16) and Helmet

15 NW

Environment: Cool breeze blowing, solid overcast

Equipment: .22LR(16) with XTR2 1.5-8x, LM IR-laser, eley 36ge HP Subsonic, TH bump, Patrol 19mm, 1x, 640(60) on left eye, PVS-14 with PAS-29/COTI on right eye. Helmet not used in day.

Activity: I had noticed more tree rat activity in the "racetrack" area out my kitchen window. My kitchen window is upstairs, and about 45 feet about the creek bed. I can crank open the window and fire with the .22LR(16) out the window without breaking anything. So, I thought I would remove the usual ODIN 17mm, 1x 320(30) I have on the .22LR these days and rezero with a day optic for tree ratting.

That scope is Burris xtr2 1.5-8x CQ MIL DFP. And is a perfect scope for the .22LR though that wasn't what I got it for.

So zeroed at 25yds. That gives double zero of 70yds. Holds are:
100yds 4 inches
150yds 18 inches
200yds 45 inches

Put the setup into practice and got one tree rat at 45yds. There is a 40-50 foot rocky creek bank behind this area, please I am level with tree rats about 20 foot up in the trees, so I can even shoot them out of trees. This one was in the crook of a branch and about level with me at about 45yds, so I aimed dead center and he jumped/fell out of the tree. Here is pic from outside on the deck which is outside the kitchen window.

A more powerful gun would probably shatter the glass in the windows, but the .22LR subsonic ammo does not, so can use the kitchen as the "hide".


10 N

Equipment: Using helmet, ir-laser

Activity: First co-witnesses the laser max ir-laser on the .22lr to the reticle on the day scope. Used the Night Optics day/night adapter and second 14. Aimed at mineral feeder 415yds away to have good aiming spot for co-witnessing.

Then scanned about with Patrol and saw critters 200yds West. COTI could not separate them out from the trees and 14 could not see them either. Proceeded to a spot in the shadows South of the Green house. Reacquireed the four deer now at 100yds.

Watched the deer proceed South and close to within 70yds, the reopen distance to about 130yds. I was able to "dry fire" with the laser and the gun on safe. The COTI/14 could see the deer during this movement sequence. I was able to leave the COTI on "edge mode" to help conserve batteries. I actually removed the KYDEX cover from the laser and was able to practice holding up over the deer and still see the laser off the trees behind.

I was able to back away to the NW and get on the other side of the greenhouse without behind detected.
This was a dark night with no moon due to the overcast. The breeze was washing out the thermal a bit. But the sound of the wind helped mitigate any crunching sound I was making on the ground.

Summary: The patrol, 14/29 combo works! The patrol on 2x can do decent intermediate distance detection and ID hands free on head. And at least within 150yds, the 14/29 can engage with the laser under most conditions. I will try this combo some more.



Equipment: Took the 5.56(10.3) with mk3 60mm this time. Got 1 rat at 70yds on 2x (9x net). Used tree branch for support. First shot I was wobbling right, second shot I was wobbling left. Third shot the rat splattered. The rat was moving but not fast enough to reach cover/concealment.


Equipmet: Back to the Patrol, 14/29, .22LR setup.

Here is a shot of the cattle at about 450yds with the patrol.

And here is a shot of two deer bedded down at about 400yds. If you look at the bump up on the hill in about the center of the pic, that is a mineral feeder at 415yds. At 7 o'clock and 8 o'clock from that mineral feeder about 80% of the way up the hill the mineral feeder is on top of, you can see a pair of white dots. Those are the bedded down deer.
Now is that a PID? No. But I have seen bedded down deer in that spot on a number of occasions that I was able to get closer to and PID and at this distance they looked like that. My guess is those are the same deer I saw earlier.


19 Posts
wigwam? Looking to purchase thermal rifle scope. Prices seem to be going down, down, down as time goes by. I want something that I can hunt hogs and coyotes with as well as patrol my chicken coops. Ideally, I would like to be able to identify and kill at 200 yards (maybe 300). I'm not interested in 20 different reticles and I don't have any interest in recording or syncing with my phone. I just want a scope that sees thermal prints of animals. Preferably only one way (black hot). I don't want anything fancy because fancy costs money. I don't have a large budget. Is there anything out there that is just a simple, plain Jane, thermal scope with no special features like the ones I've mentioned? Please advise.

Love your ongoing reports. Keep up the good work.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #335 ·
Yes. If you are interested in USED thermals ... then check out Lone Star Boars forum .. the "Hunting For Sale" sub-forum

Right now, the low cost but hunting usable end of the market is held by the Pulsar brand. There are two basic model groups, the older Apex group and the newer Trail group. The Trail group has more of the gizmos you don't need, so I think you are interested in the Apex group. I've had 4 of those and they get the job done. So, based on what you've said so far, I think you are looking at a used Apex for around $2,500 plus or minus.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #337 ·

1,476 Posts
That clip on unit is nice as far as not having to re-zero scope. Referb for 5K ouch. I might have to save up a bit for that puppy. Probably won't line one up until I have a hog field locked down.

Thanks for the info.

941 Posts
Discussion Starter · #339 ·
Yes, the big differences between the military clipons and the commercial clipons are price and optical train.

In general the military clipons, whether night vision or thermal are over $10k in list price, though used ones (or refurbs) can be less.

And the military clipons are "real" clipons in that you don't have to adjust them to minimize abs(POI-POA) ... in fact, for the most part you CANNOT adjust the military clipons. You do have to have your day optic optical center at a height that is close to the optical center of the clipon and that might require you to change your rings. But with that caveat, the military clipons just work.
The civilian clipons generally require adjustments or their will be an "offset" between the day scope POI and the clipon POI.
The reason the military clipons work better in this regard is their optical trains to a much better job of maintaining the optical center from the rear of the device thru the front of the device. Even a clipon with a decent collimating lens like the SNIPE, still just not do a good job of maintaining the optical center thru the device and hence adjustments are required and possible.

1,476 Posts
Mr wigwam

To say your night vision expertise is extensive is an understatement, begs the question....... You ever get outdoors during daylight hours....

Sorry couldn't help myself.

If I even dream about getting one of these things... I will most certainly request your assistance.
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