[APK]

Ok guys, I am calling on my SC buddies for some help/advice. I am making a project rifle this summer from a Remingtion 700 5R. I obviously want to keep the cost down seeing as how cash is definately a restraint, but I want it to be a quality rifle that shoots really really well. The gun already shoots well, but alas I am not satisfied w/ just the normal standard 700. The two main stocks I am considering are from AAI and McMillan. The AAI stock is expensive but I love the way it looks, plus it has a box mag. which would be cool. I'm also considering a McMillan A-4/A-5. Let me know what you think, how would u build this gun? What would you do to it, ex.-glass bedding, flutting, whatever. I want it to be as accurate as possible. Let me know what you think. THanks in advance.

P.S.- project is code named TTH. Designation will be TTH-308(but some variant there of)

 

[Ballistic_Coefficiency]

Im guessing this is to be a bench rifle that you want to be as accurate as physically possible... correct? When asking people how they would build a rifle and what they would do to it... make sure to say what it will be used for. How it is made and what parts you use all depend on what it is being made for.

BC

 

[muzzleblast]

Project code-name TTH...I like that.

Voted for the A5 cause I like the way it looks...I'd glass bed it instead of mounting it as is, if I was making the rifle...How about a trigger? are you going with an aftermarket? If you are, the Timney I scored is pretty cool, easy to adjust and it feels good.

 

[Ballistic_Coefficiency]

Glass beddign is a must. For a trigger i would go with either a Timney or a Jewell set up. The McMillan A5 palm grip is more comfortable than the A4 (to me)... so i voted for the A5. Also... i like the front end of the stock better on the A5 than the A4.

BC

 

[APK]

Sorry I wasn't specific enough on what I intend to do w/ this gun, but I was in a hurry so I just put it out there. I will be shooting benchrest and prone. I basically want a very accurate tactical rifle, say something you could take into the field. I also noticed I didnt put the AAI as an option for the stocks on the poll, anyone know if I can change that? I also would like to hear coments on things like muzzlebrakes, scopes etc. Given what I intend to do with the rifle, tell me exactly how you would set yours up. I am also curious if you got the A-5 stocks, which cheek rest would u use? I have not had any experience with either type so I could really use some help there. As far as triggers go, I set mine up myself and I love it so unless I run into a lot of cash that is not a priority. Also when I have it completely done I was thinking about Duracoating it, good or bad Idea?? Thanks in advance.

 

[snowy]

Badger 20 MOA. base, I've shot off of a few and I just like the whole package. It is also nice to have option if you need it.

IBA offers a pretty nice replacement floor plate (hey Mele you got any good 700 floor plate replacements?).

I don't really think you need a muzzle break on a .308, that is just my personal opinion.

Leupold or Badger rings.

I'd get a fixed length of pull and the adjustable cheek piece myself if I were getting an A5.
The fewer moving parts the better. You should be able to get a real nice fit with that spacer system.

I'd get the A5 in OD Green and have everything else done in Man O'War OD Green. IBA will do the rings, base, action and scope all at once for $250.
Then if you Ghillie your rifle you might ask well change your name to Swamp Thing.
You'll be gone.

http://www.ironbrigadearmory.com/index. ... ategory=53

Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS with a honeycomb would top this off nicely.

Well, enough daydreaming.

-snowy

 

[mele]

Okay, I added the AI option to your poll.

If you use a McMillan, glass bedding is a must. No questions about it. I've done comparisons (see the SC1 prototype page). Pillar bedding is a nice step up, but you usually do not see much of an accuracy improvement. Atomized aluminum or steel powder in the bedding is not necessary with a .308, so dont' spend any extra for it.

I like the A5 a bit better than the A4 because of the lower profile foreend. BUT, if you plan to do a spigot out front and use the versa-pods, then the A5 is not an option, you will not get enough clearance to use the versa-pod, you will have to go with an A4.

If you have the option of going for a scope with more adjustments rather than a 20 MOA, DO IT. The one down side that most people do not mention with the 20 MOA bases is that they raise your cheek weld even higher and can cause some turkey necking. Now, you did mention the possibility of going with an adjustable cheek piece, if you do that, then the 20 MOA base will be fine.

Fluting is not high on my priority list.. you dont gain accuracy with it.

Start with lapping lugs & bolt face as well as squaring action face and perhaps truing the threads in the action. If you are really going for accuracy, change the barrel (but of course, we are cranking the price up there).

A good crown on that barrel is a must also, if its a 26" tube, you might consider lopping a bit off the end and getting a good crown (remingtons are not terribly bad form the factory, so this isn't high on the priority list either).

Remington triggers are decent, timneys are even better, jewels are even another step up.

And there you have it, all of SC secrets in one post.

MEL

 

[snowy]

(nudge)
Got floorplates Mele?



-snowy

 

[muzzleblast]

He says thats all SC's secrets....but I just know he's holdin some back

 

[snowy]

The man is a craftsman, he's allowed as many secrets as he likes.
:twisted:

-snowy

 

[APK]

Mele:

First off thx to everyone for the help, I love this site! You guys are awsome. But I have more ?'s:

Stock: If i go McM I definately think im goin A-5, because i like it better. But I sill can't decide bxn McM and AI. What should I consider? Cost, accuracy and such? I don't know the details on those. Also, as far as the cheek piece goes, i dont have any experience here, which is better, the saddle type or the solid piece w/ thumb screw?

Protection: Is coating the gun a good idea? does it hinder accuracy? Or is it just not worth the money?

Scope: I love leupold, but is the a better alternative that isnt as outrageously priced like Nightforce?

Machinework: Where should I get this done? And the glass bedding to.

Trigger: I tuned my original Rem. but should I just do it right and slap in a Jewel the first time around?

Muzzlebreak: I could shoot .308 all day long, but if I can reduce the recoil without hindering accuracy, is that not a good idea?


Am i missing anything?

 

[mele]

(nudge)
Got floorplates Mele?

I guess I didn't mention floorplates did I.

The BDL's are OK, but thats about it. The stamped aluminum is pretty cheapo. The badger plates are nice, but TOO bulky in my opinion. There is no need for all that extra metal they have built into the triggerguard and floorplate. I'd like to try a dakota arms floorplate, as well as one of the Sunny Hill Tactical floorplates to compare them. I really like the steel floorplates on the MT Rifleman's, but of course, they will not fit on a rem 700.

Okay, NOW, you have all our secrets :wink:

MEL

 

[snowy]

I'm no muzzle break expert.

Muzzle breaks tend to make your weapon louder. You also will most like want a re-director that masks the direction of the sound. Some have them, some don't.

You also want to watch out for dust kick up. Some breaks are not made with the sniper in mind.

As far as coating goes, done properly it will not hinder accuracy. I believe IBA (see link above) will test fire your rifle to make sure everything is as good as when it came in.

I think their camo patterns are a little showy, but the Man O'War finishes are nice and matte and they are corrosion resistant and quite durable.
Obviously at points of friction on the action you will get wear over time, but I've never heard any complaints about them.

A few scope alternatives can be found here http://www.snipercentral.com/miscreviews.htm
You always get what you pay for.

If you are building this rifle for yourself, I'd say do as much of the work as you are capable of yourself. If you like your trigger and have experience enough to feel comfortable using it, I'm guessing you'd be fine.

Just don't try doing any machine work with your bench grinder, have a gunsmith do it. Every gunsmith knows how to work on 700 actions.

Also, there is a new rule at SC, you can't use any advice from the site or the boards if you don't post pictures.

Good building and good shooting!

-snowy

 

[badshot]

I can only add to the topic about muzzle brakes. I have to disagree (peacefully of course) with Snowy about brakes making guns louder. It is physically impossible to make a gun louder by putting a brake on. You are still shooting the same powder charge as you were before the brake. That is where the sound is created. All a brake does is redirect the sound to the sides instead of directly downrange. What you are thinking is louder is that you are actually feeling the shock wave created that would normally be projected downrange. I learned this after talking to the man that runs KDF in Seguin Texas and he showed me how this works and backed it up with measurements taken by a decibel meter. The sound levels were in fact the same.

I will say this though, once you put a brake on your rifle ear prottection is even more of a must since the sound is thrown back at you. My 300 RUM blows stuff off the shooting benches to either side of me when I shoot. I normally have a nice open space at the range after a couple shots. My data also comes from owning 3 rifles with breaks on them. I have 2 Briley breaks and a KDF. All 3 work great.

 

[snowy]

I'm sure you are right.

I just remember a friend installing one and everything certainly seemed louder after he put that thing on it.

Like I said, I'm not an expert. I do remember it kicking up a lot more dust after he had a brake put on his rifle.

Thanks for the education.

-snowy

 

[badshot]

Yes everything does seem louder. While out at teh range last friday with Jeff we saw first hand evidence of the sound waves and shock waves produced from my RUM. I had my test hand loads in zip lock baggies and had them laying on the bench. During the course of shooting some of the bags were beginning to rip apart. My RUM might not be the most accurate rifle on the range but it sure gets attention when it fires.

If you cant be accurate make ALOT of noise. LOL

 

[mele]

Mele:
Stock: If i go McM I definately think im goin A-5, because i like it better. But I sill can't decide bxn McM and AI. What should I consider? Cost, accuracy and such? I don't know the details on those. Also, as far as the cheek piece goes, i dont have any experience here, which is better, the saddle type or the solid piece w/ thumb screw?

The two stocks are fundementally different. The AI design is setup for extreme field work. They have a chassis system that allows for easy stock removal and maintenance in the field, but glass bedding really isn't an option. So you get good accuracy, but you might be missing a little bit of potential. You do gain a nice detachable magazine though. The McM stocks are designed for feel and comfort matched with ruggedness and quality. You glass bed them and get all your potential. But they are not as nice to maintain in extreme field use. Fairly drastic differences between them, you just need to decide what the mission of the rifle is.

Protection: Is coating the gun a good idea? does it hinder accuracy? Or is it just not worth the money?

You need to explain what you mean by "coating the gun". In terms of metal work, you MUST coat it with something (unless you go stainless steel). Teflon, Ceramic, Gun-Kote, blueing, parkerizing, etc all protect the metal from corrosion. Some (like teflon) lubricate also.

Scope: I love leupold, but is the a better alternative that isnt as outrageously priced like Nightforce?

Um, have you compared the prices? Nightforce is probably more expensive. My suggestion is that you look seriously at the PR line of Leupold Mk4 scopes. The Mark 4 PR 4.5-14x40mm gets the SC best buy award. Other brands to consider would be the new Burris tactical series, nikon tacticals, and even perhaps the weaver tacticals, as well as sightron SII and SIII's as well as their new SS line.

Machinework: Where should I get this done? And the glass bedding to.

I'd try to have it all done at the same place. I would first check with your barrel maker, they do package deals where they will rebarrel and true up your action. Next I would check local gun smiths, they might surprise you with quality and price. Next, check with a company you trust.

Trigger: I tuned my original Rem. but should I just do it right and slap in a Jewel the first time around?

Nope, that is an easy change at a later date. Keep it in there and save the money until you really feel you would benefit from it.

Muzzlebreak: I could shoot .308 all day long, but if I can reduce the recoil without hindering accuracy, is that not a good idea?

As was mentioned. It depends on the brake. Your perceived noise level goes up because its being directed back toward you, also, some designs will raise dust when fired, and then others may reduce velocity a little. That is another one of those, wait if you can, unless you really need it for recoil management.

MEL

 

[snowy]

I suppose I should've been more thorough with my machining comment.
I assumed he was going to leave the stock barrel on the rifle.

-snowy

 

[APK]

Ok, this is where I think I'm headed so far:

1. Stock will be A-5. This stock seems to be the best for what I want the rifle to be, which is very accurate for a not-so-outrageous price. I will get it with the ALOP spacer system and a cheeck piece (although I still don't know which type). Color will probably be OD green (with matching barrel and action), or a desert variant, not sure yet. Oh yea, plzzzzz coment on the cheek piece, i have no idea where to go wi/ this. THX

2. Muzzle brake, floorplate, and trigger will all have to wait considering my budget. But believe u me, this will be a nice rifle, I am commited to quality.

3. As far as coating of the metal goes, I think I will inquire w/ IBA to get prices to have everything coated for protection. I will also probably talk to them about the machine work, and have it all done at once. Not sure what color, I like the brown Mele did recently, but it is hard to top OD green.

4. Scope, who was I kidding, I know I will be buying a Leupold. I just have to, it is like a part of my religion now! I don't want to ever have to worry about the scope. I probably won't buy a tactical, I will probably do what I did last time and just buy Stony Point tact. knobs for it. Reticle will be mil dot because I really want to know how to use it (effectively if possible).

5. Barrel, I have the 5R and it shoots great, so for now I will keep it. If it is good enough for the Army, then right now I guess I will settle for that. :wink: As far as crowning goes, the barrel is 25" on the 5R if my memory serves me correct, maybe it is 24" and I am just goin crazy, but its been so long since I have seen her!!! Does IBA do crowning I am assuming? If so, is it worth the cost?

6. Glass bedding, I think IBA will do this along with all the machine work at the same time right? Definately seems the consensous(sp?) is that this is a must.

7. Rings and base, I think 20 MOA base will definately give me the most options so I will look into those but what about rings? I found some by GG&G which I like (plus they are here in Tucson so that is just cool) but I remember hearing about 50 CAL rings b4, what r those exactly? Rings on steroids?



I think that about covers what I have so far, once I get those details straightened out I will be working up prices, then working on getting the cash to pay for all of it . Don't worry I will document this project very much as it progresses. I will go start a thread right now in galleries to show everyone what I am starting with, it will be titled "TTH project". In case you were wondering I will let you know what that stands for, but realize, this is sensitive material and I am only giving my fellow SC brothers this info because they "need to know". Since you all have clearance, the actually name behind the acroynm 'TTH' is 'Ticket To Heaven'. It was developed by me and my sniper teammate. Hope you all like it and I will keep you updated!

 

[snowy]

Green action and hardware... So beautiful...

-snowy