[Jeffvn]

So I spent yesterday and today at the local range. 15 and 25 yards with the .45 sidearm yesterday, said hey to SPECTER, missed Badshot becauseI failed in my observation skills test about 20 minutes later.

Today I spent about 3 hours on the rifle range with my A-gunner, shooting 5 shot in 5 minutes groups for "score" and to verify come-ups at the 200, 300, and 400 yard lines at a combination of circle targets with 1 MOA X, 10, 9 etc. rings out to 300 yards, and faint line 1/2 silhouettes at 200, 300, and 400.

Pretty easy day, only a touch of wind for Houston, about 3 to 8 miles an hour and switching from 2 to 5 O'Clock.

Next weekend would have been harder (going from the 400 to the 500 and then 600 yard line doing the same things, except the shoadow silhouette stays the same size so the target get effectively smaller as you go back) except teh darn range is closed for teh next two weekends first for some sporting clays event then for the US Open shotgun tourney. Gotta hit the short range nearby and work on breathing and trigger control for two weeks.

Enough with my chatter. What do you do to stay sharp? I've shot bowling pins, golf balls, anything you can hang at the range to shoot (and not get caught). Do you find the only true training for shooting at distance is shooting at distance, or can you get away with shooting at short ranges say 300 or 400 yards and just shooting tighter groups to compensate for the wind drift that happens at distances over 400 yards.

Scoop me up I'm looking for something to change the rut I'm in.

 

[badshot]

I knew I should have got off my couch and went to the range today. After the way I shot my pistol yesterday I need to put the rifles down. That will give me more time to get loads ready for the rifles also. Do you have any luck with going out there during the week? That's when I like to go. Less people shooting and I can concentrate on making each shot better.

 

[DR308]

Staying sharp

OK: Here is what I do with my guy's when I am training them on the range. I have each of them bring a 20 oz empty plastic pop bottle and I have them set it out on the dirt backstop at 100 yards. Then I have them do one shot reload drills. I will keep this up for about 2 hours with them.
They bitch and moan, but they do it. One hour right hand, one hour left hand. With the short sight radius on the Glocks, they really have to concentrate on Grip, trigger reset and control, and sight picture. After that I give them the state qualification course of fire. You would be amazed at how large the full size silhouette K-5 area on the target is at 25 yds after that exercise. Even when I cut the times in half, most all will make into the high 90's score. Try that one for awhile :wink: You will love it!

 

[DR308]

Now for the rifles: When I was getting my ammo payed for by the goverenment, we shot 500 rounds pistol, 350 rounds rifle, every week.
They don't pay for my ammo anymore, and the Police Dept. won't buy my rifle ammo for practice. Oh, a few hundred rounds a year, but not enough for real training and practice. So what I do is I go to the range once aweek, and shoot a practice match by myself. Prone pos. Reduced target [about the size of a nickel] at 200 yds. And I shoot every longrange match that I can get to. All 1000 yd matches. You are correct when you said doing it is the practice! I have never found a better way. Some times the night before a match I will lay back in my recliner, in total silence [after everyone has hit the hay] and I will shoot an entire match in my head. Man, am I good when I do that! For real though, every time I go to match, I don't go to win it. I go to shoot 20 X's in a row. That is my goal. One day I will do it. I would love to hear how some of you guy's keep your skills up. I average about 60 serious practice rounds a week.

 

[SpEcTeR]

It was nice seeing you again Jeffvn. Hopefully we can meet up when the range opens up again, and if you don't mind, I coud use your help to check my rifle. Make sure its up to par. I too would be very interested to see what everyone does to keep in top shape and keep their skills growing.

I read somewhere that: "The moment you stop getting better, you stop being good". Nothing but the truth.

 

[Jeffvn]

DR308 - Either you are independently wealthy, or you have the reloading down to a science. 350 rifle rounds a week is going to be killer to the wallet. I wish I could spend that much time on the range.

Suspecting you reload, what are you loading? I'm in the process of working up loads for the .308 as we speak, I'm trying Sierra 175 gr MK and Hornady 178 gr A-Max for the beyond 600 yard line, and trying 155 gr Sierra MK, Lapua, and Carterucio (sp?) for the 600 and in. (I'm told the 155 Lapua and 155 Carterucio are spectacular at about 2,900 fps - basically the same BC as the 175 Sierra, but get there quicker because of the velocity differential). If this proves true, I may use them at 1,000 in F-Class too.

 

[DR308]

Jeffvn: If you read my last post again, I think you will find that when I was shooting 350 rifle rounds a week, I was not paying for them!!! Now I can only manage around 60 rounds a week. And yes, they are hand loads. My .308 is on it's fifth barrel since I first built it. I use the .308 in all my long range matches out to 1000 yds and even beyond. I actually won the Dynamite shoot here a few years back buy hitting and exploding a [I am not BS'ing now] 12 oz pop can setting out at 1100 yds. This was done from the bench on bags using the M118 Military Match Rounds out of the white box. It took me 13 rounds to do it, but I did it. It was called the "Blanchard Blast". It is not put on any more. I have also rebuilt a couple of military pop-up targets to run on 12 volt batteries. I take them out to whatever yardage I want to, hook them up to a car battery, sandbag the heck out of the base of the machine and the battery, and I have a ball! I have hit it out to 1300 yds laser ranged. That is the limit for my .308 hand loads with the scope that I have. At that range, I have my scope cranked all the way up. Even with a 20 min angle on the mount. I could tell you what the loads are, but I would have to kill EVERYONE that reads it! But believe me, they are not your standard load .308! Unless you are REALLY GOOD at reading the wind, I would suggest you use 168 grain match bullets out to 600, and a heavier bullet out past that. It will buck the wind better down range. I have not had much luck with the 175 match bullet. Just can't get the accuracy I want from them for some reason. To me they are no better than the military 173 grain from Lake City. What is the twist in your barrel? How about the length? :roll:

 

[badshot]

Here is a dumb question for all of you. Can those 168 gr match bullets be used for hunting? I know, now that you have had a good laugh I am just wondering if they are for targets only or can they used for deer and maybe a hog?

Can I even shoot those bullets out of my 300 RUM? Are they a bonded bullet?

 

[DR308]

No sir, they are not bonded. They are for target use, not for hunting. I would never use any round that was made for match use as a hunting round. They are not built for it. All they will do is break apart and give the animal a mortal wound, with a hell of alot of suffering thrown in to boot! I am glad someone asked this question, now you all know. I should have thought of that myself, and pointed it out long before now. Thanks.

As far as shooting out of the .300 RUM, I don't know. I suspect that they would not hold up to well in that type of round.

 

[badshot]

Whew!!!!!! I just knew I was asking a really dumb question. I'm new to trying to learn to shoot super accurate for targets but I have been dropping deer since I was big enough for my dad decided I was old enough to shoot a rifle. I have been hopelessly hooked ever since. Now I want to see if I can learn something new. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

 

[DR308]

Whew!!!!!! I just knew I was asking a really dumb question. I'm new to trying to learn to shoot super accurate for targets but I have been dropping deer since I was big enough for my dad decided I was old enough to shoot a rifle. I have been hopelessly hooked ever since. Now I want to see if I can learn something new. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

No problem-never a dumb question.

 

[Jeffvn]

DR308 - I've read about that explosive pop can competition. Dan Lilja talks about it in one of the articles on his site; slightly more thrilling than shooting an egg I'll bet.

I have two .308s, each with a different barrel. On one I have a 700 PSS with a 24 inch #7 straight taper Broughton 5R 12" twist. My custom swap barrel (.308 and 6.5x284) has a 26 inch #8 straight taper Hart 10" twist. The original concept was to shoot 190 - 220 grain Sierra MKs from the Hart in F-Class, and use the lighter and more maneuverable 24 inch Broughton in Tactical comps using either the 168, 175s, and possibly Hornady 178s (maybe, maybe not, depending upon velocity and stabalization).

 

[DR308]

Jeffvn:
Yea man! when those things get hit, they really make noise and a large visual along with it. They started at 350yds and went out from there every 50 yds until 900 yds. Then every 100 yds from there. Alot of fun. Alas, it is no more up here. I here they still have an event down toward Lewiston Idaho, but I don't know enough to make the trip.

You have the right idea about which rifles to use with what bullets, but I think you will find that the 190 is the heaviest your .308 can handle at range. You can push those quite high FPS, but it would be a REALLY GOOD IDEA if you had a match chamber to put it in. I have a 1 in 10 twist now and I do shoot a 190 at 2675 FPS. It is a fantastic round for reaching out there. May I ask, why do you shoot the F class? Why not prone so you can get classified? Anyway, it sounds like your on the right track.

 

[Jeffvn]

The peepers just don't seem to have the same zip as they did when I was doing this for real back in the mid-late 70s for the USMC (translates into when I focus on the front site now, I can't really make out the target silhouette well enough to gauge either center mass or 6 O'Clock - just a nasty blob out there somewhere in front of me).

I know the scope is a crutch - but its a good one and when I use it I can generally hit what I'm aiming at. Yeah for the moderately old guy!!!!

notwithstanding my 6.5x284, I'm considering a 300 Win. Mag. with a 9 twist to shoot the Sierra 240s - .700+ BC once you get them going, these bullets do not want to slow down...

 

[DR308]

I know what you mean about the eye's. I can't see crap on my boot anymore. But don't think that the scope is a crutch, it is far from that. A scope allows you to make very presice shots, at incredable distances. You gotta love that! I just finished my new match rifle last month. It is another Rem700. I put a 1 in 8 heavy stainless Kreiger barrel on it, 28 inchs long. It is chambered in .300 Remington Ultra Mag. And I shoot the Sierra 240 grain Match bullet out of it at 2955 FPS, with no more than 35 FPS difference in 20 rds. I know this sounds a little nut's, but I don't think it kicks as much as the .300 Win Mag! I sat down and fired 100 rounds through it when I was working up my loads for it and I was a little sore the next morning, but thats it! I opened up the scope mount holes to 10-32 with a 20 min angled Badger mount with MK4 Rings. I put a Leupold MK4-M1-16x on top of it. I put it in a H&S Aluminum block bedded stock with a steel H&S Trigger guard that is made to hold a Magazine. The Mag holds 3 rounds of this bad boy. It shoots a Quarter size group off the bench at 200 yds. Man! It's a whole new ball game! I will be shooting it in a Match ASAP. Up here in the high desert, we need the heavy bullets going really fast to defeat the wind. Now when I shoot in a heavy cross wind, it will be a matter of what side of the 10 ring I have to aim for. It took me 2 and 1/2 years to complete this project. As I always say, One step at a time. 8) P.S. The Sierra 240 grain Match bullet only comes in a 500 count. I have a place that I can get them for around $158.00 shipped to my house. A little pricey, but if they work, well worth it!.

 

[Jeffvn]

Now you've opened pandora's box of questions about your custom.....

I'm gonna need to see pictures too (put it up in the Gallery Section); When my 6.5x284 McMillan A-4 gets back from the shop I'll do the same.

Who did your stock, barrel and chamber work? What throat did you go for, and what kind of barrel life do you expect from the 300 RUM with those loads (I just know you're going to keep a detailed data book on it).

Sound like you opted to leave the muzzel break off the cannon (you can not use them in competition anyway). As far as I know the only way to do that and survive is have a HEAVY rifle to absorb some of the recoil.

I've also heard its more the choice of powder (as in speed of the powder burn) than the volume that defines the kick of any given round. if that's true, playing at the extreme slow end of the field may well make this guy kick less than a 300 Win Mag.

I saw an article about shooting the 240 Sierra MK out of a 300 RUM at over 1,600 yards (more than a mile) and hitting a target that was something like 20 inches by 24 inches. Serious accuracy, velocity, and delivered energy at your fingertips. Call me Mr. wish-it-was-me. :wink:

 

[badshot]

You can't use a gun with a muzzle brake in comp? Looks like I'm building a cannon of a squirrel gun now. Looks like I won't get to the range this week after all. I went yesterday to get the collet piece to fit my case trimmer and I had to order it from Midway last night. It cost me as much to ship it to me as it did to buy the piece. Or I could go buy a $50 box of fed Premiums and see how they shoot. I like watching all the people around me when that thing goes off. You see everyone looking back behind the dividing walls trying to figure out where that blast came from.

DR,
Where can I find cheaper factory loads for my 300 RUM. Is there anything on the net that I might not know about? Bass Pro Shops here has the best price I can find at $30 a box for green box remington factory loads. Thanks again.

 

[DR308]

Jeffvn: If someone will direct me as how to put pictures up on this sight, I will do it today, along with the target I shot on the final dial-in.
As for who made the barrel? Krieger. Who made the stock? H&S Precision.
Who did the action, crowning, chamber work, bolt work? Defensive Edge in Rathdrum Idaho. A man Named Shawn Carlock. [he is on the web] He has got to be one of the BEST gunsmiths I have ever come across! But he did all the work to my spec's. I got out of the military 85. I went to a 2 year gunsmithing school while I worked nights as a cop. I have been a gunsmith and a cop for over 15 years and have built all my own rifles. But, I am retired now. I let someone else do the machining for me now, and this is the guy. As far as the throat dimentions, I set the round to the case first to get the max contact on the case neck. Then I made the measurments, and added .015 for free bore. I expect around 3500-5000 rounds out of the barrel. But that is just a guess, not a fact. After I get the count, I will be able to give a solid estimate. This round is so new, that I don't know if anyone has worn a barrel out yet. As for the stock work, I do my own.
You are correct in the fact that the NRA comp's do not allow a muzzel break of any kind. Sorry Badshot: But, you should have checked the rules BEFORE you spent the money. Or ask about it here!
Jeffvn: as far as surviving the recoil: I don't have anything on mine to reduce recoil, and the rounds I load are on the upper end of the scale. And as I have said, I sat down and fired 100 rounds through my baby at one time, and I was just a little sore the next morning. No kidding.
If your rifle is built right, it won't have a bad recoil. I WILL tell you that the rounds I am loading are HOT.[how else could I get a 240 to travel 2955 fps?] And I am using a new type of powder at over 80 grains with a fed 215 match primer on once fired cases. Your rifle will shoot something else anyway, but there is your starting point.
And I am going to try to make a shot this summer with this gun, and start a ONE MILE CLUB up here. I am going to set one of my military pop up targets out at 1800 yards. Thats 40 yards more than a mile. 1760 yards is one mile. This is what I have built the rifle to do. I will be inviteing some of the best long range shooters in this area to try it, it will all be on film, and I will try to get it on the net when we are done with it.

Badshot: I have nothing but bad news for you today it seems. I know of NOWHERE to get reasonably priced commercial ammo for this hog. I have a hard enough time finding brass! When and if I do find some one who has it, I will pass it on to you guys. And I am sure you will find that the rem. green box is very inaccurate, and kicks like a mule! :shock:

 

[SpEcTeR]

badshot,

I don't own a 300RUM therefore I have never looked for ammo but I do know that if you look in the Hunting/ Fishing regulation book for Texas; they have a 20% coupon for Bass Pro Shops. It is not much but if you save 6 dollars on every Federal Premium Box then it helps a lot. They expire in December but, that price will be hard to beat.

 

[DR308]

:x OK: Some one please tell me how to put a picture in the gallery section!!

Got it taken care of. Flea helped me out again.