[Harquebusier]

Hallo guys,

I'm a newbie here and I would like to ask you a question as you may have experience with this.
I have a new Remington 700 Police and yesterday I put a scope on it. I used a Leupold Dual Dovetail bases and 30 mm rings. Riflescope is Nikko Stirling Diamond 6-24x42mm Saddle Focus model - it is an Australian brand, I am not sure is you know it. Well, before mounting it on the rifle I set the perfect zero on it - by turning the scope in a V-shaped prism I found the center position very accuratelly - the crosshair didn't move more than 1/4 of inch while turning the scope around. I did it twice and the difference was no more than 1 click.

I put it onto the rifle then. Mounts fitted perfectly, riflescope too, no misalignment at all... But, when I pointed the rifle on a far away object (an insulator on power lines - cca 300 yards) I found the barrel was pointing 4 mildots lower than the scope! 4 mildots are 13,75 MOA and this is simply too much - it makes the rifle good for shooting to only some 300 - 400 yards since there is a lack of elevation remaining!

Had anyone of you faced such a problem? It looks it could be a problem of barrel/receiver misalignment. How to fix it? Is it reason enough for complaint/rejection? Or are there any taper washers under the bases available? Thanks in advance.

 

[murray]

Yes this is a common problem with todays mass producted factory rifles. Quality is second to quantity. Any qualified gunsmith will be able to redrill hole that are perfectly centered with the bore. I would suggest though possibly waiting till you rebarrel, unless you see otherwise. That way when you rebarrel you can have all the action work done and then have the mounting holes squared to your new barrel.

Doh I thought I read that it was shooting to one side. The bore and barrel are not going to have the same POI because your scope is mounted above your bore. If you are conserned about not having enough elevation to get to 1000yds than you sould look into a 20mao base. These bases a slighlty angled to give your average scope enough adjustments to get to 1000yds.

 

[Jeffvn]

visual inspection and verification is nice, but have you shot it yet? that will be your true test of point aim point of impact. Personally, I would not go the shim route, but that's me. I agree w/ murray, get a 20 MOA cant base if you really want to shoot at long range.

Jeffvn

 

[mele]

Yes, you need to shoot it first to see how bad it really is. There is really nothing you can do, unless you have some lower quality rings and bases, which could cause such a large mis alignment (if you discover there really is one after firing). Generally, you will use up 5+ moa to zero at 100 with any scope/rifle. Just no way to perfectly line everything up with the bore/barrel, etc. The 20 MOA, or 15 MOA's (leupold) or even 10 MOA (ken farrell) bases help get those extra verts.

MEL

 

[marvin_lr30]

problems with 700

well to me it sounds like all you did was ensure the scope was optically centered ,from what you say you havent fired it, there is almost always a difference in the scope being centered and poi for the round. shoot first then decide ,did you zero it by firing? try that then worry if it wont zero at given range ie 100yds or farther sounds like a good setup.

 

[Stump]

Trade the gun in and get a Savage police sniper!! :lol:
Dont mind me, Im just a Savage nutt.
Get it bore sighted first, then go shoot it a couple of times to get close to zero.
Then wait till the barrel cools down, and resight in to make sure its dead on.
If you cant get it sighted in after that, id swap the scope with a known good one from a buddy or something and see if it will sight in with it.
If it does use the first scope as a fly swatter.

 

[Harquebusier]

I shot the rifle the day before yesterday. My proximate adjustment of the riflescope by boresighting was very accurate. Although I shot it only at 50 meters, the POI was several milimetres under zero - the ballistic chart says it should be + - in zero at 100 meters.
The problem is after this setting I had only 10,75 MOA to the very end of scale in direction "UP" remaining. I suspect the problem is in the barrel/receiver connection which is probably not collinear. I fired 10 rounds and the POI moved down as the barrel heated up...
Fortunately, the guy who imports Remingtons to this country is very communicative and helpful. He will lend me another rifle today and I'll compare it with mine. I'll decide then.

 

[spade]

Alright man, heres what i think might be going on. Forgive me for saying so, as i think this is your fault. I believe when you installed the scope on this rifle one of two things happened.

A) Your bases are mis-aligned due to error installing. Not torquing the screws to the proper rate, while keeping the amount of pressure on each screw the same.

B) Your scope is not set properly inside the rings. (either too far foward or back)

The only other option could be equipment problems. As you said the POI moved, this might also be due to improper bedding of the action inside the stock. It would be a good test to see if you could obtain another set of rings/bases or if you could put another scope on the rifle. Generally it only costs between 10-20 dollars to have a scope installed on your rifle, you might consider having a professional gunsmith install it again, being sure to properly bed the bases. Or buy a set of one piece rings and base combo thingey.

You know what im talking about.

Otherwise, im stuck on this one.

 

[mele]

A) Your bases are mis-aligned due to error installing. Not torquing the screws to the proper rate, while keeping the amount of pressure on each screw the same.

B) Your scope is not set properly inside the rings. (either too far foward or back)

Actually, neither one of these would effect it the way its being described. The amount forward or backward the scope is in the rings effects your eye relief and cheek weld, but thats it. You can mount it as far forward or back as you would like as long as the rings are flush against the tube (and not on the slanted bell part, which would be obvious when trying to tighten the rings).

When putting on the bases, as long as the screws are tight, it'll be solid. Its best to use lock tight so there is no movement down the road. But again, as long as they are tight (and not moving) they will not effect the scope as has been described.

MEL

 

[spade]

mel the only thing i can really think of actually causing this IS movement of the bases. thats assuming its ACTUALLY a scope problem. Thats why i responded like that. And you never know mel, i've seen guys try to crank scopes down damn near at the bell before, and it made the scope move during recoil.

I had sort of a similar problem like this with a CZ silouette model that i owned. Over the months that i broke it in, the POI kept rising 2-3 inches everytime i took it out. Turned out it was a problem with CZ's shoddy stocks and they replaced the entire rifle free of charge.

 

[mele]

Yeah, those cases make sense!

Without looking into it further and slowly eliminating the possibilities one by one, there is no telling.

MEL

 

[Harquebusier]

Well, guys. I suspect the story is somewhat different. The man from the importing company lent me two more rifles of the same type to choose a better one. No one is faultless!!! One has the forestock touching the barrel on one side, the other recrowned barrel in imperfect way, etc.
I got suspicious that these rifles didn't pass a QC and somebody is trying to sell them as a normal stuff. By the way - there is a red dot sticker on the side label of each carton box about half an inch of diameter - what does it mean??? Faulty stuff???

 

[muzzleblast]

Wow, if the flaws were that easy to detect, yeah, QC should have picked up on them.

If I had to pick one of those, I would go with the not-quite-free floated one and just inlet the channel a bit wider.

 

[Harquebusier]

Muzzleblast: Yeah, your advice makes sense.
Does anybody know what the red dot sticker on the gun's box is for?

 

[Jeffvn]

Did you write the serial numbers down?

Its possible that you might be able to call Remington customer service and let them know what is going on (meaning that someone is selling them as new in the box and they are obviously flawed). Its possible that they will let you know that they were not designated for sale as NIB. Alternatively they may say nothing or that they are fine. Sometimes an call to an 800 number customer service unit might help. Just a thought.

JeffVN

 

[Harquebusier]

Jeffvn: Yes, I did. I sent a message to Remington from their website form telling them what is probably going on. I received an automatic response, confirming they got it promising I'll get an answer within 2 or 3 working days. I'll see...

 

[Ballistic_Coefficiency]

Cool... hope everything works out good for you.

 

[marvin_lr30]

700P sight problems

Another possibility is that the scope is bad ,not being familare with that model it may not have more than 40-50 moa total adjustment and sorta sounds like it is changing poi ,after the barrel cooled where was the poi? if it was where you last fired probably scope if changed ie back up then rifle/mounting seems to be at fault. just my opinion/thoughts

 

[Harquebusier]

Exchange of the faulty rifle

I took the rifle with forend touching the barrel. I released the screws holding the system in the stock and tried to adjust the gap between the barrel and the stock. Although it is still not even on both sides of the barrel, I can live with it.
By the way: This problem could be solved completely by a proper glass bedding, I think. Where can I find the instructions how to carry out this job? Any info appreciated.

 

[muzzleblast]

Might wanna give this a read...long article, and picture heavy, but I guess thats a good thing if its something you want to do.

http://riflestocks.tripod.com/bedding.html