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Discussion Starter #1
First time post, be kind :)

I grew up with a 3.03 Enfield, great rifle for short range kills on Deer and Pigs; often a set of good dogs, proved better -With a knife ;)

As I grew older {Old Fart} I moved to the high profile vermant 22.250, great for average sized game and then on to my favourite the .270 -Straight shooter. Also used a handgun .357 for close shots (less than 100') with great success, six " . GP100; Here in the US.

Now I see on this forum that the 3.08 is the preferred weapon of choice? I thought this had a bell curve shot? Verse the .270.

What is the difference between the .270 and 3.08 in terms of angle shooting over distance? Does the Magnum 3.08 make a difference?

I'm looking to see what can happen between 300-600 yards (Yes, too long in the USofA, forgotten metric) and perhaps 1500 yards.

The Leo scope seemed to do justice, like the variable to 50mm, some things don't change;)...mm. Best scope for long shots, today?

Lets see some info, curious. While I'm here, does anyone use a silencer? Game, hate loud noises :) or does the drop in ammo caliber affect the end result on a 3.08, magnum, using a silencer?

Thanks, in advance.

Mick
 

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welcome to the forum! youv'e come to the right place for answers on questions ...most of the guys on here know there stuff really well. I'm not the person to answer most of your long range shooting questions but as far as hunting goes...i know a little bit. asfor the silencer...that's not really used among hunters because in order for a bullet to be truly silenced it has to travel less than the speed of sound...which is slow...and it decreases velocity (and therefore knock down power on your game) and decreases maximum range. bullets are usually measured in caliber...whcih is inches...so a "3.08" is actually .308cal which means that the bullet diameter is 308/1000's of an inch. also millimeters are used to name some rounds (7.62x39 etc etc) I will let some of the other guys explain what round would be best for long range shooting and all the ballistics to you ( cough cough mad step in cough cough) anyways... glad to see a new name on the forum!

-BS
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Caliber

Sorry about the "Dot" thing -I did mean .308 and understand the velocity issue with a silencer :) Having grown up from a 'Nickel' using a .22 with a silencer -Got a lot of rabbits that way ;)

Thanks for the warm welcome :)

Hope to see some comments!

Cheers
 

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Typically, shooters refer tothe drop of a round to determine how flat the trajectory is, as opposed to angle shooting over a distance. As for a "Magnum .308", well, there really is no "Magnum .308". Hot loads (As in a better powder providing a faster round) are really what are used and spoken of, when refering to a single caliber. There are many calibers, and while powder can make a large change, the bigger difference is typically made by the cartridge and bullet, and not the powder, so people usually refer to a different caliber as being superior/worse.

The closest I can really think of to a Magnum .308 is a .300 Win Mag, so i'll use that.

Both are Federal loads. The .270 is a 140 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw round (Best federal .270 round I could find), while the .300 Win Mag is a 190 grain BTHP Matchking.

Drop 50/100/200/300/400/500 (200 Zero)
.270 0.4/1.4/0/-6.4/-18.9/-38.5
.300 0.6/1.6/0/-6.9/-19.9/-39.8

Energy Muzzle/100/200/300/400/500
.270 2987/2537/2144/1802/1503/1245
.300 3548/3134/2760/2422/2117/1843

Velocity Muzzle/100/200/300/400/500
.270 3100/2857/2627/2407/2199/2001
.300 2900/2726/2558/2396/2240/2090

As you can see, the .270 BARELY wins at a shorter range. It'll also kick far less than a .300 Win Mag. But, the farther away you go the more and more the .270 will lose compared to the .300 Win Mag, because it has more energy (Typically the by-product of a heavier round). Additionally, due to a heavier round and more energy, the .300 Win Mag will have more stopping power when compared to a .270, assuming you don't hit the vitals.

People are, of course, coming up with more and more cartridges, with better or worse ballistics than a .270 or .300 Win Mag. As for why we prefer the .308, well, it's pretty well held as the traditional sniper round. Excellent stopping power, terminal ballistics, and decent ballistics overall. It would be rare that you would have to engage ANYTHING at over 800 meters, which is where the .308 about hits it's wall. Additionally, being a popular and old round, there are many different tactical rifles with it as an option. All this stacked with the fact that it is pretty well a NATO round (The 7.62x51N is a about .002 or so bigger than a .308), so altering any .308 rounds to fire NATO standard ammunition is a simple and easy task.

Essay completed.
 

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Hey Kiwi, how are you?

I think he might mean Hornady Light Magnum loads maybe...

Anyway, 308 doesn't shoot as flat, but it is more consistant over long ranges, and no one makes match grade ammo for it. You could build a 270 target style rifle and get great results though.
 

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Nothing wrong with a .270 at all. A couple of reasons the .308 is popular is 1 it is the NATO standard round the military uses. 2 match ammo is easly available for it. 3. a 30 cal bullet tends to hit harder at long range than a .270, but IMHO for people sized game it is not that big a deal until you get to very long ranges.

Nothing wrong with a 270 btw.

As for silencers they have a bad reputation here in the US as assisans weapons. In 1936 there was gun legeslation passed to "stop crime" due to the crime wave hitting the country and people like bonnie and clyde shooting up towns. What the feds did was severly restrict certin firearms ie fully auto and silenced weapons. So what you heve to do is get a calss III license from the feds that cost $200 and involves a background check etc etc. sond stupid? It is. In fact many states you can not own class III weapons. I would like to see silencers made readly accessable since I look at it the same way as a muffler on a car, it does not annoy the neighbors as much with it.
 

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Kia ora mate ...... welcome to the forum, the guys here are a great bunch :D
It's nice to have another Kiwi on board ...... I'm in Albany on the North Shore ...... which part are you from?

Sounds like youv'e been away for a while ..... the place is still awash with old .303 Enfields

My choice of calibres ...... .308 and 6.5 x 55 Swede

Most here are .308 fans but some, including Mel, realy like the 6.5 Swede

(the Bledisloe cup is on tomorrow :D )
 

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Discussion Starter #8
G'Day

*Wow* a bonfide Kiwi around here ;) Kia ora. Been State side since 1983 and It's hard to adjust to the limited "Freedoms" one gets used to in NZ, takes for granted. Like spotlighting game at night, no deer season :) Originally from Nelson, spent many a weekend hunting.

CM2k - I realize there is no real 'Magnum', aside the load; but as we all know there can be a difference in how a manafacturer builds around the chamber & bolt to take a heavier powder load. -Some people have used a weak breach and have it blow their face off :shock:

I no longer own the trusty Enfield and sold the .270 Remington, after a nasty AWOL divorce. This post was with the intent of getting back up to steam, It's been a few years since I bowled over a White Tail deer. Though there are some TALL stories going around, why not lean on this one for a bit, the last White Tail was a 3 year old Doe (I'm not into trophy hunting at all) and that's a pretty tasty gender and year model ;).

Just off a dirt road in the back country, rather a lot of hills in the area, I was just below the horizon of the hill I was on and the sun was toward me in the early hours of the morning [Have to add, where I am -They sit in a tree stand and wait, blow that, for a joke]; across the way, about 2/3 up across on the other hill she walked out very carefully -Rested on a fallen tree I lined her up on the Leo, the .270 is a fairly comfortable rifle, wrapped the strap around my arm, took careful aim, made a 1/4 turn adjust for wind and let go.

I kept the scope on her and she just stood there, I thought damn missed; but not overly surprised as the shot was 700 yards and in an area with brush all around her. Ok, as I reloaded and took careful aim again -She bolted, thought she had caught my scent, though the wind was across, not toward her; I followed her with the scope, best I could...Oh, well, another day. I walked to where I had shot and found a blood trail..Huh! Almost 100 yards away I found her dead, shot head on clear through the heart.

This actually was my most remembered hunt, for obvious reasons ;) That .270 was pretty dang good. Swed 6.5 -How does that measure up? Have not even heard of that rifle, so please enlighten; does the barrel float well off the stock, what kind of bolt action is used?

Now, I'm interested in hunting again [It's in the blood, or is not & those afflicted, never get over the hunt and the pleasure of filling the freezer; with your own game -Nor that peace that only comes from back hills].

So, though long winded I see the point of the .308 is tailored ammo, as a prime consideration and long range knock down power? As a hunter, I spend more time making sure a shot is well placed, rather than tearing a large hole. I intend to try my luck, later in Colorado and do some Elk hunting and expected some long distance shots. I liked the flat projectory of the .270, but did not know and have not used the .308. Nice info,as well ekaphoto.

These days what's the scope line up look like, again for long shots and good light receivers + glass? What would be the line up from 1 through 4 on models?

Cheers, mate
 

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Discussion Starter #10
;)

dead_1_5_0 -Well, everyone has at least one good day :wink: Hense It's hard to forget, can't recall any other hunt that produced more surprise or reflected shock value -For me :)

Hunted a lot, that's the one I won't forget. Of course there are also the horror stories of the near miss, that should have been solid or swimming in a river unexpectedly, concentrating on the wrong issue at the time :oops:

{Found all the other related Forums} -Leupolds for the PM II 3-12x50, this seems to be worth considering, nobody noted if it was a mildot or not though -I'll 'Hunt' the story down; now I know there is a lot more info around here} -I had the 3x9 -40mm

Cheers
 

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kiwi 2? would i be right thinking you deserted us for the US, haha good to have you aboad SC m8, Im from Rotorua, and kiwi i believe is from Auckland. look out mel here comes the uprising of the kiwis hehehe.

nah its good to see another kiwi on here

HUM.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
G'Day

Humdinger -I had ro take a 2nd look at where this site was based from, can't say I have seen three Kiwi's on a US based Forum at the same time;) But having come from the Mainland...Lol I often wondered how the hunting/stalking was among those Sika and those who hunted them :) -Those fella's always facinated me, all the stories I had heard of how they back tracked the hunter and followed close. That would be an :oops:

I know It's OT, but don't seem to be getting much response in regard the .308 here, but the site took care of that. What are you fella's using at home and are the game still plentiful? I hooked onto this site because it was apparent, that was the solution to getting up to speed; what a surprise! Na, I'm still a kiwi -Just stuck here because of my kids and when the youngest is old enough, we will head home. Went back in 2001 for a month and was dragged kicking and screaming back to the plane, well not really;) I do miss everything Outdoors, though and the long weekends, extended way past what they should have in the back country.

CM2k -Offered something to think about. -But you will have to post in feet and inches, been to far removed from the metric system of the Land Down Under. I'll have to calculate that 800 m

I see we have Canadian in here two -*Wow*

Is there still chopper "Hunts"? - Curious what's used [Rifles] for game and how serious hunting has changed? Any new 'Rules' ?

Cheers, mate
 

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KIA ORA, im orginally from the south island too Timaru to be precise but now im in rotorua, its good to see another kiwi here. The sika, those are cunning bastards, last time i was out hunting i tracked one in circles for about 3 hours then as i was giving up thinking its playing games and put my rifle town for 2 mins and went to piss, hello it walks strait out infront of me:| they are getting more cunning as the years go bye.

Huntings still the same, games plentiful everywhere, ive been popping Rusa stags off the back of the tryust toyota hilux ute at night for the last 6 months.

The only new regulations that have come into play are the new steelshot for duck shooting season, they are saying they are finding too many dead ducks that have eaten grass and died of lead poisoning from taking down pellets also. DOC finally got their **** togher, stopped most of the big deer culls from choppers, and started sending the odd lucky rec hunter in to get the animals we deserve, which sucks in a way i was brought up and taught to hunt/trap/cyanide animals since i was little. I got on one chopper with DOC on the last cull in the Rotorua area, semi auto 12g shotguns wuth 00 buck for culling in the air and of course the old maori boys are running the hills for pork with their dogs.

As for rifles, the enfield .303 still reigns supreme for hunting down here as it has since WW2, just beeing rugged enough to take the knocks and hard hitting enough to put them down and still dirt cheap you can still get one with all matching numbers in good condition for about $50 - $100. The other calibres tried to make a come through but the bush hasnt changed, only in the open are bigger flatter shooting 7mm, .308 and other long range rifles used, usually for waipiti(elk) in the deep south, any open country And youll never guess, someone actually took another Moose from FIORDLAND.

ill leave it here, but happy reading m8:D

Hum.
EDIT, just thought id say, the lions invaded, and got beaten in the rugby.
Now its tri nations time and we just gave ozzy a whippin to claim the Bledisloe Cup from ozzy and win our 1st game of the tri nations.
 

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Dont discount the 270 against the 308, 303 Brit, here is a side by side comparison from Remmy on similar style bullets, clearly the 270 shoots flatter and hits harder even down range.

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistic ... esults.asp

THe 270 is very under rated as an accuracy cartridge, this very remmy load shoots sub MOA from my Remmy barreled Mauser.
 

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im not saying it isint good, i have a 270 also, i just meant that the .303 brit is the most common rifle used here in new zealand, because of the type of bush we hunt in, no one really wants to take a nice rifle to get all torn up, where as the old 303, haha well mines been left for a few overnight stays in the bush to say the least hahaha

hum:p
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This is making me homesick...

First up -Humdinger, Kia ora; I'm an old fella now, but not so old I can't do a three day trip into those great NZ back country blocks :lol:

Glad to hear the choppers are dropping shooters off, rather than knocking them down with their .223's. Seemed a little less than sporting and was really annoying to spend a couple of days getting to a great spot, only to have the damn chopper buzz the heals off everything for five miles, but what shooting deer with a shotgun, damn would have never thought of that! Rusa are still around then, great. I see, so now lead balls of fire can't be used on ducks -That's interesting. I imagine there is still a select ballet for hunting waipiti, huge beasts -For others looking in these were originally a cross between the Colorado Elk and the German Elk, they found a nich so perfect; they became monster sized; Racks so darn big..I'll see if I can find a shot of one, never did shot one -Except with a camera, too big to bring out and I'm not into shooting for fun [Trophy heads], though it counts if the freezer fills up ;) -Pretty hard lands to travis in Fiordland, I'm past my prime for that now..Lol

The hardest Deer I found to shoot was those small Fellow Deer, after they get fidgity, start jumping around like a Jack-In-The-Box, could be quite frustrating.

Really appreciate the news, all the way around -I'll private message you tomorrow. This thread made my whole darn week just perfect, mate-thanks.

mlammers -I loved the .270 and would buy another, except for one thing [Hense the silencer question] Fire off almost any rifle and then use a .270; It's not a "Boom" sound, which washes away quickly -But a really sharp resounding and echoing crack and that, friend, means one shot and a long wait when hunting. If anyone can suggest a way to quieten a .270 down, I'll get one custom made. Mauser actions are the finest I have used, right with you on that score. The other rifle the 22.250 was also good, but the bullet is simply too light. I tested out at 200 yards and had a twig set 10 feet to the target -Off immediately, the .270 was not so shy in the same scenerio [Sure, it took more than a few shoots to hit the twig]. It's the blasted noise with a .270 that really could not be worse for stalking/hunting game. But a very fine rifle, I had the 700 BDL Remington.

This thread has been really great, comments welcome -Particulary in repect to the .270 & .308. I still hold a longer barrel length is better than short one, though I have not recalled the barrel on the .270, I will look that up and compare against the .308. The .306 was becomming popular when I left NZ, but somehow in the back of my mind I recall a bell curve with that rifle, like the .303?

Sure fella's the Enfield was a great rifle and apparently still is, I'm sure you know though you can almost make out the curve it takes :wink: through the air. Still, a remarkable weapon with great stopping power; ask a NZ Boar. Are there any 'Cooks' left with 6" tusks, or have they been stamped out?

Lately I have been looking for a decent Pack, that will cover a good week out. Any preferences or links would be appreciated -With the Kiwi back blocks in mind, these are not day trips :p

Then comes the rifle, scope. If It's possible I think I'll try to find someone really good at custom building the rifle, whatever the end result. Hope I don't have a problem getting it back to NZ when the time comes.

Cheers
Michael
 

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Re: This is making me homesick...

Then comes the rifle, scope. If It's possible I think I'll try to find someone really good at custom building the rifle, whatever the end result. Hope I don't have a problem getting it back to NZ when the time comes.

Cheers
Michael[/quote]

I can help you with this ill get aholda the police import form, there is a list of approved arms allowed in new zealand through the nz police website.

As for the 200+lb cookers with 6-8 inch tusks of grunting black beasts ready to charge if cornered, well the hunting for them has just got better:D The games still there haha but now the locals here are pushing for bigger boars with smaller and fewer dogs. The rush will never die though when the boar has broken through your dogs coming strait for you, im sure you remember the feeling. actually there are few hunters now taking video cameras out. samples of these vids can be found at
Lifes a boar you can also grab some other apprael from them

http://www.lifesaboar.co.nz/video/download/index.html

http://www.safe-shops.com/Merchant2/mer ... de=tshirts
(this one beeing my fav,typical kiwi attitude)
http://www.safe-shops.com/Merchant2/mer ... de=tshirts

haha, I dont ever think the kiwis love for the outdoor life will ever cease.

As for the fellow i know exactly what you mean they are like baby lambs in spring time.Ive only taken one when i was 14 we were out getting eels and the odd rainbow trout with a 70lb compound bow when we came across a small spiker so took it home on the quad bike much to everyones amazment.

Hum
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Found these!

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/firea ... orting.php

http://www.fortliberty.org/gun-accessor ... sors.shtml

http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm

http://www.targetshootingsupplies.co.uk ... d_Main.htm

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/factors_i ... y_one.html

So It appears silencers are legal in the USofA, are they still legal in NZ; could not find anything in the quick search I did? -I'm still aiming for the .308 or .270, which ever turns out more viable.

Good to have you around ;)

Cheers, Mate
 

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Kiwi2 ...... not only are silencers legal here, but there is a chance the government could make them compulsory so we don't damage our hearing........ :wink:

The wild deer are on the increase because the government has banned export of ferral venison due to the risk of 1080 being found in a shipment.
Now all exported venison is farmed and the commercial meat recovery guys are out of work, consequentaly the herds are multiplying.

I was talking recently with an ex culler from the West coast (Hokitika) and he recons it could get to be like the 1940s again .....deer everywhere! ... :D

If you want to bring a rig back for the open country in the South Island then the .270 would be great ....... in North Island bush a long shot is 80 yards.

Cheers.
 

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Kiwi said:
Kiwi2 ...... not only are silencers legal here, but there is a chance the government could make them compulsory so we don't damage our hearing........ :wink:

The wild deer are on the increase because the government has banned export of ferral venison due to the risk of 1080 being found in a shipment.
Now all exported venison is farmed and the commercial meat recovery guys are out of work, consequentaly the herds are multiplying.

I was talking recently with an ex culler from the West coast (Hokitika) and he recons it could get to be like the 1940s again .....deer everywhere! ... :D

If you want to bring a rig back for the open country in the South Island then the .270 would be great ....... in North Island bush a long shot is 80 yards.

Cheers.

I dont suppose I could come too, If thats all the longer the shots are then my 870 slug combo is crying to get a workout.
 
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