[Jake S]

Just wondered if any of you have any field experience with these guns. I have a P97, their polymer framed .45 ACP, and despite the fact that I have had some stovepipes and FTF's with reloaded ammo, I find it to be a very good, accurate defense gun. The polymer lower actually reduces felt recoil, despite its meager 30 ounce weight, and I only paid $300 for it new! It sleeps in my bedside table, full of Hydra-Shocks, just waiting for a home invader...

Now theoretically they are not as good as Sigs or Beretta 92's, but what do ya'll think of them? I got it because I wanted a .45, but didn't want to pay the $800+ for a good 1911, and I (sorry everyone ) despise Glock pistols.

Jake

 

[DR308]

:? Why do you despise Glock pistols??

 

[Jake S]

I don't know, I don't know, everyone always asks me that. I guess I just don't like their feel, they don't fit me well. I know everybody loves them, and when I decided it was time to get a new high-cap 9mm, they were the first I tried out. I rented a G17 and put 200 rounds through it. No FTFs, stovepipes, FTEs, or anything, functioning was perfect, and I know their stellar reputation for reliability, and they are, in their own right, very good pistols. I mean them no disrespect. But I felt that their fit and ergonomics left something to be desired. And I can't get used to that trigger . I went with the Beretta 92 and have not looked back since.

On the other hand, my Ruger P97 needed Hogue slip-on rubber grips to be perfectly comfortable, maybe thats all a Glock would need to become my best friend . But even without the Hogues, I still felt that the P97 felt better in my hand than any number of Glocks.

Jake

 

[DR308]

Jake:

When I got out of the military in 85, they had not gone to the M-9 yet. We still used the 1911's. I went in the police business in 86 and carried my trusted 1911 with me at all times. Now this is a true story. When I went from Detroit to up here in the rocky mountains, I joined a police force here that said I would have to carry the Glock. Well, I was mortifed!! How could they want me to carry that piece of combat tupperware!! I had gone to college for two years and got a degree in gunsmithing, I was the expert here, not them! So I was going to show them the error of their ways. I went to and payed for the basic Glock armor's school, I went and payed for the advanced Glock armor's school, and I was very impressed, but NOT CONVINCED!!! So I went to and payed for the Glock Instructors course. I did EVERYTHING I could to get that damn thing to stop shooting! I even broke open the slide while I was on the firing line and dribbled dirt down in there. I even picked up fired brass off the ground, loaded it in my mag, and it fed the cases 7 out of 10 times! At the end of the 4 day course, I had fired over 1500 rounds without one thing going wroug that I did not cause on purpose. I don't have a 1911 any longer. But I still have a Glock that I lug around everywhere. If you weren't so far away, I would bet I could take you to the range for one day, teach you how to manage the trigger on the Glock, and change your mind about Glock. I would love to try. Grip and trigger reset are the two things you MUST master on the Glock to make it yours. Do yourself a favor, try them out again. Hope I helped

 

[subThermal]

Jake, I take it you have "big paws," and the Beretta and Ruger are just about right in your hands. You might consider an H&K USP as well.

Personally, I like Glocks, they are rugged, functional, and descrete. However, I still perfer my custom STI (Made from STI frame by me). I know your looking for a 9mm, but rent a Glock 23 at the Range and see if you don't handle it better. 8)

 

[Jake S]

Big paws, perhaps. I did also consider the USP, but found that the controls were laid out horribly and didn't like the texturing on the grip frame. I would, in that case prefer a Glock over the HK, despite them being very good guns. The G23 is .40, isn't it? Well, I could just go with the G19, which is dimensionally the same.

DR308- I know the Glock reputation for reliability is unsurpassed, but I guess its just personal preference. But that trigger, I think it would take me quite some time to master. Do you think one of those Wolff trigger springs, that lighten trigger pull to 3.5#, would make a difference in my ease of shooting? Because honestly I would like to own a Glock, but there are just too many other handguns out there that I personally can shoot better. But I just might give it another try, since you speak so highly of it . I was considering the Glock 19 9mm, or whichever one is in 10mm (the G20, i think?) Do you think these would be good for me to try to master, as my first Glock?

And what do you think of the Walther P99 in .40, as that is next in line for my handgun purchase list. Should I consider a Glock over the Walther? Your personal opinion is valued.

Jake

 

[DR308]

Jake:
Glock makes a 3.5 pound connector that they sell. It is not a spring that would lighten the trigger. I am sure there is a certified Glock man around your area. If you have trouble finding one, Ask a cop who is carrying one and ask to talk to his dept. amrorer. If he can't do it for you, he will know who can. Mastering the Glock trigger reset is not near as hard as you might think. A little time on the range with someone who has already done it, and a little practice, you will be there! I carry a 19 and it is great. It is also VERY CHEAP to shoot! [matches my personality] I don't patrol any more, so I don't need a larger caliber. But I really like shooting it. If you want to find out about the things that are out there for Glock, Check out the "LONE WOLF" web sight. That place is great. I do know the people that own and run it. I shop there when I need Glock stuff. You will love the sight. :wink:

 

[DR308]

I forgot: The Walther p-99 is a really good pistol. I have not had the opportunity to fire one, but I know many that have and they really like it.

 

[Jake S]

The regular P99 is a real sweet, gun, and is definitely next in line for me to purchase. But the trigger on that P99QA, it is quite possibly the worst feeling trigger I have ever played with. It is the complete opposite of how most triggers feel, probably due to its being striker fired as opposed to hammer fired.

 

[Jake S]

Update on the P97:

I am selling that piece of crap as soon as I can find a buyer! Here's what happened...

At the range the other day to run a box of Hydra-Shocks through the P97 (I just bought a box for my .45 to use as a home defense gun) and to do some more shooting with my Beretta (love that thing !) I ejected the empty magazine, locked back the slide and filled the mag with Hydra-Shocks. I had not yet fired the gun this trip to the range. With eight shells in the mag, I popped it into the pistol and hit the slide release lever. The gun was now loaded with a shell in the chamber and set for a single action trigger pull of just shy of 4 pounds. I raise the handgun and prepare to fire when I hear something land on the shooting bench. The slide release lever. THE SLIDE RELEASE LEVER? So what do I have now? A cocked and unlocked (the P97 has no safeties whatsoever) .45 auto whose slide is now stuck in the ready position, unable to be retracted, unloaded or ejected or even safetied. I remove the magazine and look in disbelief at the gun. Now everyone out there, the next time you are in a gun store, look at a Ruger P97. To remove the slide stop lever, you must remove the magazine and push the extractor down on its hinge into the magazine well, and then cock back the slide. Then you must slowly release the slide until two small dashes, one on the slide, one on the frame, are lined up. This lined up position is halfway between the slides farthest forward and farthest rearward position, putting a lot of stress on the recoil spring and the person who is field stripping the pistol. How in the bloody hell could it just fall out? It can't. We were forced to strongarm the slide back 1/4 of an inch until we were able to jam the slide stop lever back into place on the frame. Then we were able to reach into the mag well and pull down the extractor, push the slide stop into the frame the rest of the way, and finally decock and unload the gun. If I had'nt heard the slide stop fall, I would have fired the gun. The slide would have flew off of the gun, into my eye, right after the gun blew up in my hands, scorching the cap out of my arms! I am so glad I caught it before it screwed me over real good :shock: ! Its a shame, I thought Ruger made some good products. They'll not have any more of my business. So everyone, stick with the Glock if you want polymer, and avoid the P97 like its a crackhead with a needle! I know I have learned a lesson...


Jake

 

[SpEcTeR]

Jake,

Don't beat yourself over it, you choose the gun that initially felt right for your hand and shooting preference. I am a very happy owner of a 17 and I can only second DR308's suggestions about Glocks.

Since you might be in the market for a Glock, I might suggest you look at the new 3-pin Glocks. The reason I suggest this is because I read that you like the hogue grips. I realize that Glocks do not come with rubber grips, but the new 3-pin Glocks do not have flush handles (as the older had flush stick-like handles) and instead feature grooves on which your fingers can nicely wrap the handle with. You would have to find the proper size, as different sized Glocks will obviously fit different in your hands. As for me, the Full size Glock 17 fit nicely in my Bear Paws.

I have located many aftermarket parts for Glocks and I can help you, if needed. And as others have mentioned parts are cheap!

 

[DR308]

Jake:

Very sorry to hear about you Ruger. They make very fine single actions, but I have never thought that they had a good product in their semi-auto pistols. My suggestion when people have asked me about them is to say,"you ought to buy two of them and throw both of them away!" Or " they make very good boat anchors" Anyway, Glock makes a very fine field pistol. VERY reliable, Very tough, and VERY CHEAP to fix if something does go wrong. And you won't have to send it to Glock to get it fixed. Try them out again.

 

[Jake S]

I was sad too. I have had quite a good time with Ruger's firearms, being the proud and happy owner of a 10-22 carbine, their Standard Mark II .22lr target version, and a fine "Old Model" Super Blackhawk single action .44 magnum. I assumed this tradition of well-made guns would carry over. But I guess they are like S&W, their revolvers are great (Ihave a double action model 686 .357 magnum, and it is my hands-down favorite ), but honestly their semi-autos suck. Well, I've learned my lesson, and am not buying anything semi-auto with the Ruger logo on it :evil: ! And I would advise you all out there to do the same.

Meanwhile, I find myself in need of another polymer .45. Is it the G21 that is Glock's full size .45? I might check it out. Also, have any of you ever fired or have any experience with the G20, or whichever one is the full-size 10mm Auto? I am interested in that 10mm round.

Jake

 

[DR308]

Jake:

Yes, it is the Glock model 21 that is the full sized .45 ACP. And yes, I have had a Model 20 also. It is exactly the same pistol as the model 21, same size. Only it has a 10mm barrel and ejector and extractor and mag.
The 10MM is a very powerful hand gun round. The nearest thing I would put it next to is the 41 Magnum. Not quite the same, but close enough. It is a fine self defense round.[penatration may be to much for an ideal defense round] I think it would make a fine wilderness pistol though. It is the most powerful handgun that Glock makes.

 

[Jake S]

How is the recoil/controllability/accuracy/shooting comfort of that sucker? Did you like it? And do you think I would be wise to stick with the .45 for defense, as I am currently, as opposed to the 10? Thanks.


Jake

 

[Jake S]

And do you think the 10mm auto is more powerful than a good .357 magnum round? Because I was thinking of going back to the old standby of self-defense: 6 rounds of .357 mag!

Jake

 

[DR308]

Jake:
That is going to be your personal choice. I don't believe that [god forbid]
in a self defense encounter, the guy you cap is going to think, "owe! that was a .357 magnum, or was it a 10MM?" The 10MM you will have ten rounds, the .357 you will have six. The choice is yours. Either one will for sure do the job required. :roll:

 

[lknight]

Jake

That story about Ruger scared the bleep out of me man. That is a hard situation to deal with. Damn.

 

[Stump]

i love my p89
havnt had a bit of trouble out of it even though its kinda heavy i actually like that
the only thing i can sudjest is putting your back together right
and it wont malfunction
and yes ive had mud and grime in mine and it still functioned properly
and very accurate

gl with which ever gun you choose especialy if your in law enforcement

 

[USAlx50]

Its funny how peoples opinions change from forum to forum. I have been researching the P series on Thefiringline.com and everyone there has good things to say about them except for looks, and a lot of bad things to say about glock..

I personally have heard all good things from people who have had a P series gun.