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Discussion Starter #1
What are the advantages of sabot rounds? I have seen the plastic leftovers on the range and I know sabot rounds are a popular ammo type for destroying tanks, but what are the advantages of a sabot bullet?
 

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yes i believe they make sabot rounds for the .308, havnt played around with these myself
they have a huge increace in velocity, main advantage
 

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benifits

There are a couple of benifits in sabot rounds and yes they make the for 308.

I have seen 308 to 223 They even make smaller but I have never fired one.
They make a 50 BMG to 30 cal as well.

One benifit is smaller round with a higher velocity ussually can increase penetration. (body armor situations)
Another benifit is cost. Reloading wise anyway. 223 bullets are alot cheaper than 308 even with the cost of sabots.
Most sabots on the market are also coated so you will have less barrell wear and tear.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
So pretty much just increased muzzle velocity. Is accuracy unaffected, or even improved? And it was mentioned that they are cheaper for reloading, but how much of a difference would sabot rounds cost over a regular conventional round?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
or is it possible to buy sabots and just slip them over my existing ammo?
 

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Sabot

Anonymous said:
or is it possible to buy sabots and just slip them over my existing ammo?
A Sabot must be pressed into a 308 shell and makes it possible for the shell to hold a 223 round. see pick below.

As far as acurracy it depends on the situation. You will probably get less drop but more prone to be moved around by the elements because its a lighter round. I really havn't done any serious long distance comparisons to give you a accurate answer. And as far as price goes. When you buy in bulk the more you buy means the more you save. Just depends on how much you shoot.



 

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This was me that started the topic by the way i just forgot to sign in. But to answer the previous question, I would think more energy would arrive at the target because the same amount of powder is used to propel a smaller projectile. Therefore you have a smaller projectile that is traveling very fast that put alot of energy on a very small space. This is the idea behind the Sabot rounds used by the Abram series of tanks. Their main gun is a 120mm (i beleive). But what is left of a Sabot round after the out casing is discarded is very small. This theory seems less relevant to sniping unless you are trying to punch through some thick body armor. I could be wrong, but there is not body armor i know of that would stop most modern sniping cartridges i.e. 7.62mm and up.

Thanks for the pics by the way, they helped alot.
 

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cfroehlich7584 said:
I could be wrong, but there is not body armor i know of that would stop most modern sniping cartridges i.e. 7.62mm and up.
My vest is a level IV....a level IIIA is what normal officers carry and is make for handgun rounds....this is because more officers killed in the line of duty are killed with thier own weapon.

My vest has a level IIIA kevlar along with two S.A.P.I. (Small arms protective insert) plates that ugrade the level.

According to the manufaturer it will stop Armor Piercing 7.62 NATO USM AP round 166 grains @ 2850 ft/sec

I just wouldn't want to test that out.
 

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AK-47 fire can be stopped by heavier body armor, i have seen the guy from second chance have himself shot all by AK-47 fire wearing the vest, from what i hear he does this often and is still alive
i hear 7.62*51mm NATO and even older .30-06 fmj rounds could be stopped by body armor heavy enough
it would make sense that a 7.62mm SABOT round would have a better chance at penetrating if it arrived with the same energy or more energy and concentrated it in a 5.56mm hole

ps dont try that stunt at home ;)
 

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You should go back and check the .408 cheytec posting, we got into a good discussion about sabot's. Be sure to read my review of the Swedish PSG-90. Their standard issue .308 ammo is a sabot round. A few things to note is that its much faster with higher energy at the muzzle. Accuracy is NOT as good as standard match ammo. The smaller caliber bullets have a lower ballistic coeffecient then heavier .308's, but the time of flight is so much shorter it more then makes up for it out to 1000+ meters. Penetraction of tactical armor is greater with sabot rounds.

Also, there are NO commercially available .308 Sabot rounds that I have found. Winchester makes a military .308 SLAP, not available for civilians. And remington does make their "Accelerator" rounds, but ONLY for .30-30 and .30-06 which is a shame. To get sabot .308, you have to reload yourself....

I do plan to do a side by side in the future of 175gr match and a .223 sabot in .308 at long range. But my plate is full, it might be a ways off.

MEL
 

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Mel which .223 would you be using, the 77 grain or the 80 grain Sierra Match? As far as .223 goes that have the clear BC advantage. I presume the sabot itself is fairly lightweight, so the combined weight of bullet and sabot remains less than standard .308 ammunition, hence the significant jump in muzzle velocity.
 

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As noted, the sabot rounds attain much higher velocities, which yields flatter trajectories and shorter flight times. For military sabot rounds, accuracy is only negatively affected at short range, while civilian sabots tend to be made in a way that they are easy for reloaders to apply themselves.

Here's a diagram of how the sabot in the Winchester SLAP is divided:


As for sensitivity to wind, for the Swedish military sabot round, out at 1000m, it has about 40% less wind drift than the ordinary 7.62x51 AP rounds, due to higher velocity and lower retardation.
Another advantage is that the sabot rounds we use have less performance drops in cold temperatures.

When it comes to armour penetration, our sabot round can penetrate around 13mm thick armour plates out at 800m.

Cfroelich:

My issued vest is this one:


With plates inserted, it protects against 5.56x45 AP, 7.62x51 FMJ and 7.62x51 AP fired from 5m away, and .300WM from 10m away, and weighs 10.64kg. Incidentally, our sabot rounds cut through them at ranges up to 200m due to a much higher energy concentration.
 

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Nek,

Thanks again for the details... you are the resident expert when it comes to sabots in 7.62 NATO for combat!

jeffvn,

I was actually looking at the 69 in order to try and get the velocity up more. But I have not totally decided, as I need to try and get some velocity numbers and compare BC's, flight paths, etc to find which will indeed work the best. More to come....

MEL
 

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to add to this thread, the US has adopted a .30 cal SLAP round known as the M 948. It can be used and is probably used by the M 24 SWS and mabe even the Mk 11 Mod 0 and XM 25 rifles
 
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