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Would you buy an SC AR-10/AR-15 DMR?

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Good gravy! Whens the madness gonna end!! :D

It does sound fun.... but first let me get my feet underneith me and on solid ground with the SC1, SC2 and SC3. So, give me another 4 months or so and we can talk about it. I do not want to stretch myself too thin.

MEL
 

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Heh.... well, would these "eager" employees be willing to relocate to western montana? (gee, thats probably not too hard to convince someone to do) but the working for peanuts by be....

I've already done some things to speed development up, the biggest hurdle now for the SC2 and then other projects, is money. If the money is there, I could be working on a AR10 prototype right now....

MEL
 

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Why don't you get your company some publicity, like in a magazine or something.
I will in due time. I need to be ready for the publicity when it comes. I'm in the process of getting everything ramped up to handle more volume. Its coming... just takes time.

MEL
 

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Oh man, don't make me put a number on it!!! I would need to look at the details more closely, but I would guess around $1000-$1400 to get a prototype rolling. I can start looking into it....

MEL
 

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Okay, I'm not ready for this project right at this moment. But now I'm thinking about it, but I have some serious questions:

It appears everyone is thinking AR10 as the foundation. Are there other actions people would prefer? (M14, FN FAL, G3, etc )

What needs to be offered on a SC DMR that is not already available from DPMS, Armalite, or Bushmaster? I want specifics. i.e. what would this rifle have to have to make you purchase a DMR from SC instead of one of these other companies? (Who all make fine rifles).

What else?

MEL
 

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Well, thats what I'm trying to figure out... what specs are desirable.

I need to know what people are expecting. DPMS, Bushmaster, Armalite, all offer very nice AR10 type of rifles. I like the bushmaster lowers because they handle the FAL magazines. But I would rather do something unique. So that is why I ask the question.

Personally, I feel a DMR rifle does NOT follow the standards of a sniper rifle. Because a DM operates with a typical infantry squad, his rifle should offer an "extended" range, but still be useful for typical operations, including individual movement techniques, CQB (well, he'd probably support CQB). So based on this, the rifle should be compact in size, semi-auto action, fairly light weight, and very rugged. Optics should NOT be high power, I would say no more than 6x. Variable would be handy, but I would suggest against Variables because they are not as rugged.

Based on the above, some of my specs would include:
18-20" Barrel
20 rnd magazine capable (10rd acceptable)
Aux sites desirable
10-11 lbs total weight

Something also desirable could be an action similar in function to the AR family for familiarity with existing rifle operations (DM's do not have the extensive additional training that snipers do, so using an operation that they already know would be good)

I would say 1 MOA would be the goal for a true DMR rifle, and I'd say it should be used with standard 147gr BT machine gun ammo, not M118. It should also be tested with armor piercing.

Designed effective range should be 600-700m with this ammo and optics. The scope should have an internal easy to use range finder in the reticule as well as bullet drop compensating reticule. A good example would be the Springfield Armory government 6x. I recommend against mil-dots, they are too hard for the DM to easily learn to use, and more importantly, its too slow. DM's fight a much faster paced battle than do snipers. They need to be able to quickly "roughly" estimate range and "roughly" hold off to get a hit at 400-600 meters.

Now, this is what a real DMR should be, of course, it probably wouldn't sell to civilians, as its not what they desire :D

So, if I were to design a DMR, thats what I would do, and no one on this board would buy it! So, I need everyone elses suggestions.... my views are are not centered toward civilian mainstream... then again, maybe thats desirable for some?

MEL
 

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Hum, I still haven't heard of anything that I can do yet that would be totally different from whats offered. The guys at Bushmaster, DMPS and Armalite already got a hold on this market, so I have to come up with something unique.

So, for all of you that have comented so far, what wouldn't you just buy one from the big 3 ? It seems everything mentioned is available through them ? Am I mistaken?

No, for a DM rifle, I would not want 24" barrel. It makes the rifle too long for practical use when not engaging targets 600 meters away. I think 20" would be an ideal mix between velocity, utility, and accuracy.

I'm not sure about colapsable stocks, I do not think it would be desirable, but I can be convinced otherwise on that one...

more ideas?
There were a few potentials in that big list of pictures....

MEL
 

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Okay folks, NOW we are starting to get somewhere.

Fisrt:
I like the idea of the modified M14 mags the best.
Any particular reason why? Have you had better luck with them over say a FAL mag (which is MUCH cheaper) ?

Okay, now, I need to let you know that any long action caliber is out of the picture, the uppers are not made for long action calibers. So, there will be no 6.5x55, .30-06, 270 Win, 280, etc etc. Now, the new short mags, based of an SSK upper, is doable. So, based on that, my very early caliber listing would look something like this

.243
.260 Rem
.308 (of course)
.300 WSM (seems like a good match)
.270 WSM

Okay, see this SSK picture, this is getting close to what I have in mind, though the barrel might be a bit long and the handguard a bit short....



Anyway... I'm still looking for ideas. As of now, it sounds like caliber is about the only that I could do to set my stuff apart....

MEL
 

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Okay, first point:
I put the picture up as an idea of something I would try for, I would not just resell their rifles (especially for that price).

Target price is about the same as the SC3 ($1450), less if possible, more if it has too.

Now, all of a sudden, there is interest in the FAL? Personally, I like the idea because its something more unique that no one else is doing. BUT, maybe the reason no one does such an animal is because there is NO market for it?? So, if you are a closet FAL fan, please chime in. Or if you hate the things, let me know also.

This project is in the planning phases. I need to get as many opinions as possible. So far, I like the response.

MEL
 

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In the picture of the DSA rifles, I like the top one, which has a free floated hand guard. That seems to be a nice rifle, but I'm trying to find where to get some customer barrels made for the FAL. Anyone know of anyone who does custom heavy barrels for FAL? I need to talk to some more people about that, especially about chambering in different calibers.

MEL, when is the first production run?
Heh, well, I need to figure out the exact specs first!! Heck, we haven't even decided wether it will be AR10 or FAL !! Of those that are commenting, it seems even. Now I need some other people to chime in. Am I wrong to think that an AR10 action is in more demand? Again, I'd personally rather offer something unique....

MEL
 

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Yeah, thats what I'm trying to find out. Building it shouldn't be too bad, it seems pretty straight forward, though perhaps a tad bit more complex than an AR. I also looked into G3/HK91 variants, but the build up on those is much more difficult, so I abandoned that idea.

So, keep commenting either way! Trying to get a pulse here.

MEL
 

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Westpoint:

Yeah, I was thinking of doing that.... we'll see. If I do it, I'll throw it up on the main page, which gets a lot more traffic.

DSA offers their FAL in 308, 260 rem, and 243 win. I beleive that all of those rounds are the same length and have the same case head diameter. So the only difference between the calibers is the the barrel. DSA uses steyr or badger barrels. I beleive the head spacing is the same for those three rounds as well.....
Not only are they the same length, they are all three based on the .308 case, and yes, they all three have the same head space.

thanks for all the links, I'll be looking at those and seeing what I can learn. I heard the DSA rifles were not that accurate, but I cannot speak from experience

MEL
 
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