[TOPO-sniper]

Jeffvn and I made the big move back from 600 to the 1000 yard berm this morning. We both discovered we did not have enough elevation adjustment in either of our scopes to dial in point-of-aim=impact.

My 700P has a Badger 20 MOA base & rings with a Zeiss Tactical scope with ~630 inches of adjustment at 1000 yards. I topped out ~2 MOA short of the correct elevation. WTF, over.

Options, opinions?

TOPO

 

[Jeffvn]

WE SUCK!!!! Oh that might have been what you meant to ask when you requested opinions.

Topo-kicked my ass today at the 1,000 like I messed on his carpet. My Hammonds Custom came up 22 MOA short of the necesssary elevation to make that move and hold dead on. (let me just say that MOA scale reticle was a wonderful piece of equipment - every time I added 2 MOA of elevation Randy came back saying nope you're in the dirt - so I would put in more elevation.

I've been on the phone to Nesika and US Optics since getting back from the range (I'm going to get new rings to accomodate the new 20 MOA base). New equipment is on the way. All in a days work at the big boy range I guess.

Aftergetting my butt handed to me on the 1,000, I we needed a bit of a pick me up. So Topo and I went over to the pistol range and cleand up on some pistol shilouette tagets with my Burns custom .45. Now I feel better

JeffVN

 

[mele]

Welcome to the world of .308 long range shooting. In standard conditions, and according to the book, you will be real close. 630 inches is only 63 MOA, that is about the minimum you need for 1000 with 308 and 20 MOA rail.

63, centered is 31.5 MOA up elevations available to you when you zero (usually you lose 2-5 MOA of that to zero at 100). With the 20 MOA base you gain another 20. So, best case you are looking at 50 MOA available to you to go from 100 to 1000 with the .308. In standard atmospheric conditions, and according to my "pretty accurate" software, you need 42 MOA with 168gr at 2600 muzzle velocities. You have, at MOST 50 available to you, thats cutting it close. Throw in any variables, like higher humidity than standard, more up MOA needed to zero at 100, colder weather, BC's that are not as high as manufacturer claims, and you are out of UP (like you ran into).

I consider 70 MOA a minimum with a 20 MOA rail, but prefer 80 MOA. This is a big plus for 30mm tubes, they tend to have more adjustments. the Leupold Mk4 has about 95 MOA. That cheapo bushnell 3200 10x tactical scope you can buy for $180 actually has 100 MOA. There are a few others... but not many.

You can add shims under ther rear of your rail, but I don't recommend that. If you have mildots, you can learn your holds also at that range.... of course, you can buy a new scope to

MEL

 

[Jeffvn]

Mel

I can add a little info to the picture.

The ammo was Federal Gold Medal Match 175s - both of us had 26 inch barrels (for that little bit of extra velocity in my case).

The temperature was never above 70 for the rifle shooting portion of the day.

We were shooting in Houston, with humdity levels below "OUR" average approximately 50% (65% when we started down to about 45% when we finished).

I believe the combination of the 3 factors stated above lead to a retarded muzzel velocity for the Fed GMM 175 ammo, probably no more than 2550 fps, which in turn required more MOA to reach the 1,000 yard line than would be necessary in a higher humidity and warmer day.

I can also report that both US Optics and Nesika were incredibly responsive to my plight. US Optice (Wendell) called me back first.

US Optics offered to machine me a custom 25 MOA base for $100-150.00 -wonderful deal since Neseka charges $200.00 for them. THEN they offered to swap out my current rings for a new set that would fit the new base. These Guys are THE GODS of customer service.

Neseka was not to be outdone, as they called, listened to my sad story, and then offered to simply swap out my flat base for a 25 MOA base (I'll never have a 100 yard zero again) - so that was a welcome phone call.

JeffVN

 

[mele]

Yeah, I would venture to say that the temp and humidity is your biggest culprit, as well as the velocity being a bit low.

Anyway, that extra 5 MOA should help.

MEL

 

[Jeffvn]

Mel

It probably was the combination of the weather gods and the ammo gods conspiring against us.

JeffVN

PS that is why I got the 6.5x284 to use from the 1,000 yard line - no sluggish bullets will be coming out of that laser blaster.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Jeff, sounds like you might have this licked. I am unfortunately on a tighter bullet launching budget than my pal here. I found out when I got home my M4/LR that is mounted on my target AR has a little more UP than the Diavari, but it may be hard for me to give up the glass in the Zeiss. I will email Badger this evening to find out if they make a 25 MOA base (couldn't tell from a quick run around their website).

Even with the frustration, making hits on a silhouette target again at a klick was allot of fun.

 

[Jeffvn]

Topo

Missed you at the range today. I took the US Optics SN-3 off the Hammonds, and installed it on the Patriot. It took forever to get the darn thing set up right - those US Optics Rings adjust from both sides - to give you a gross windage adjustment. But if you have them aligned in opposite directions they just humble your ass all day. I needed some extra eyes but eventually figured it out by putting a 6' piece of my brown paper behind the target at 100 yards. Last 3 shots that I took were just over .380. SWEET!!

JeffVN

 

[Jeffvn]

different day, different result

Went back to the 1,000 yard line yesterday with Topo - only this time I was armed with the Patriot Arms & US Optics SN-3 mounted on top with the US Optics Rings and 20 MOA base.

Yeah - I had plenty of vertical in the scope and had at least 10 - 12 MOA of elevation left on the scope. ITs just amazing how much difference there was between the two rifles (oine with a 20 MOA base and the other without).

Congrats go out to Topo who yet again humbled me on the 1,000 (right up until he ran out of ammo). :shock:

JeffVN

 

[JRP3]

Jeff,

How do you like the performance of the nesika action? I know they have great benchrest actions, but I was wondering how their tactical action is. Will it be able to stand up to field use with more grime etc.?? Was there any need to true the action or was it good to go?

John

 

[Jeffvn]

JRP3

My understanding is that neither the action nor the bolt can be "trued" in the traditional sense of the word. They are machined to exacting tolerances at Neseka and then case hardened or something like that. The bolt has spiral flutes to faciliatate shedding of mud and grime - not to mention it looks pretty cool. I have had no problems with it at all, and have used it in the magazine fed mode on several occasions from the range simulating a rapid fire situation - no malfunctions or feed problems. The reason for the Neseka action in my case was to facilitate the 6.5x284 (less flex more accuracy), not the.308, but so far it works fine for the .308. (My custom builder has a hissy fit when I said I wanted the rifle action to be a repeater, instead of a single shot - his comment was that I was giving up the accuracy potential in the Neseka single feed Action. I'll try to get a close up pic in teh ear future and post it for your viewing pleasure.

There was an article written in Precision shooting about a Neseka Tactical rifle (built by Neseka) about a year ago. Nothing but glowing commentary, especailly about teh action and bolt functioning and accuracy.

JeffVN

 

[Jeffvn]

John Here are the PRecision Shooting Articles on the Neseka BAy Tactical Rifle. I read these before I got my Neseka Tactical action.

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/2001_articles.htm

JeffVN

 

[SpEcTeR]

Jeff are the PR magazines that good. I keep hearing good things about the mag. Don't think I have ever had the chance to see or read one. Hmm, its like 37 dollars for a year.

 

[Jeffvn]

They are in the NOT CHEAP category, but some of the information is amazing. I go to the Sniper's Paradise site and read the articles that they have posted over there each month. I'm tempted to subscribe, but the good articles seem to show up on the S.P. site.

JeffVN

 

[mele]

I remember when PR did their spin off with "Tactical Shooter" and I supscribed... but only for a year. On average there was one, maybe two good articles per issue and I found it wasn't very good, and I guess I wasn't the only one, as the magazine only lasted a few years. That being said, every PR issue I have picked up seems to be pretty good, of course most articles are not geared toward tactical shooting, but precision benchrest and other kinds of competitive shooting. Thats not a bad thing, but don't expect to find most of the articles to be about tactical shooting/sniping

MEL

 

[JRP3]

Thanks for the links Jeff, some good reading on Nesika's action.

John

 

[SpEcTeR]

I would like to subscribe to some tactical shooting magazines. What do you guys find that contains good information and articles. I have found a couple of articles in Weapons of Law enforcement but it seems that its all advertisements and mostly "whats new" type of articles. Which are good but need more than that.

Mel? Jeff? everyone?

As far as PR, I might chech out the articles at SP. Then decide.

 

[mele]

Just subsribe to the Sniper Central Email List (newsletter). Its even free.

I find okay articles in SWAT Magazine and Guns & Weapons of Law Enforcment, but I subscribe to niether. Just not enough sharpshooting/sniping to make it worth while to ME. Of course, everyone is looking for different things

MEL

 

[14sAREGOOD]

Back to the topic .....

I used a Ken Farrell 30 MOA base and Leupold PRW rings, on my Rem 700 PSS, .308 Win., Leupold 4.5x14x40 Mildot Tactical. This has MOA left over at 1000, using Federal Gold Medal Match chronoed at 2700 fps.

Very inexpensive set up, strong, rugged and works well.