[westpointranger]

Has anyone ever heard pf the scorpion camo pattern? It looks really cool! Definately a better choice than the Army's new pattern I think.

www.militarymorons.com/misc/misc.html

 

[Madison]

Well if the military picked a pattern its for a reason, Meaning it probably breaks the human figure better then anything else they could find. They do some pretty extensive testing to pick a pattern, I saw a thing about it on "Mail Call".

 

[Yimmy]

I would not put too much faith in military decisions where it comes to equipment.

 

[APK]

Why is that Yimmy?

 

[westpointranger]

Does anyone know if you can buy the stuff pictured? The display was used at the Eagle Industries booth at the SHOT show.

 

[Yimmy]

"Why is that Yimmy?"

Because those with the power to make the decisions tend to be the smeg head old generals and politicians who really have no idea of what is needed.

It does not take too much effort to find bad decisions; just look at how the Uk adopted the SA-80, or how America adopted the M16, or how the UK is short of armour vests, the utter failure of the Eurofighter project, F4 Phantoms lacking a gun etc etc etc.....

What is that old quote..... "Remember your rifle is made by the cheapest bidder", or something....

 

[Jeff_850]

yep and your rilfes are made by the lowest bidder heh why not put more money into the military and buy soem quality stuff

 

[westpointranger]

I wouldn't know about the British Army, but the US Army has gotten pretty good about selecting good combat gear. I,m not saying that they do everything right, but at least its a lot better than it used to be (thanks largely to Pres. Bush and the increased military budget).

About the M16, after 40 years of service its still one of the best assault rifles in the world, bar none! The M16 still has at least 10 more years of service if its properly upgraded.

 

[subThermal]

Actually Yimmy, the Army has its soldiers test thier new equipment. If it works, great, they make a note of it. Then they compile all thier notes, send them out to contractors and wait for bids. It's called, business.

You actually think a general pulled the new design out of his ass and said: "Make it so!"?

You simply tell the contractors (from the above said notes, recomendations, etc.), you need a better camo pattern, a better color for X enviroment (where you think the chances of conflict will be), what kind of stiching, needs to have a standard boot, a knee / elbow pad system, etc.

As far as those photos go, you can have the same effect with woodland BDUs in a different setting. You don't buy something cause it's "cool" thats called being a "tool."

 

[Yimmy]

I know how it works subthermal... but till countless errors are made.

When I mentioned the M16, I mentioned it in the context of how it was adopted.. ie in Vietnam and how it cost many soldiers lives. I would say that is a classic mistake and backs my argument.

I somewhat doubt it was the normal soldier who wanted that rifle thrown into a war untested largelly.

 

[Zaitsev]

I agree with subThermal and that the Military is having solders and other professionals test new materials like the XM-29(should be in use in 2008)

 

[Madison]

There is always some amount of mechanical error with new equipment. And the m16 saved many more lives then it cost (allot of the weapons werent suited for jungle warfare and either brokedown and were useless or didnt have the stopping power nessary. Then the m16 was introduced and had the right amount of stopping power and weight to make it an effective killing mashine. We just werent ready for vietnam or korea.

 

[Jeff_850]

today the M-16A2 is a good assault rifle, it is accurate, can exceed modern maximum effective combat ranges and is an effective round, if taken care of is reliable, lightweight, low recoil
i could go on all day why the M-16 is good and also go on all day about negatives to it but im not gonna go there
as far as Vietnam they woulda been a lot better off with the M-16 if they didnt ball powder and instead used stick powder, and issued cleaning kits so soldiers could clean thier gun every day

 

[westpointranger]

I agree with Jeff_850 on this completely. All new combat weapons have there bugs, they just have to be identified and dealt with.

You don't buy something cause it's "cool" thats called being a "tool."

I didn't mean they should adopt it because it looked cool. At least this stuff looks like it will blend in somewhere as opposed to the new stuff which dosn't seem to blend in anywhere!

 

[APK]

west: Do you have a picture of the new Army uniforms? I haven't seen them yet.

I know how it works subthermal... but till countless errors are made.

Obviously everything is not perfect and yes errors are made, everyday millions of mistakes are made each day. But we are human after all, perfection is not always achievable.

As far as the heads of the military making large scale mistakes on equipment etc. I feel we have become much better at taking care of our soldiers and thoroughly testing their equipment. We have come a long way since the days of Vietnam. Of course if you dig deep enough you will find mistakes made everywhere, but look at where we are now, we have made so much progress, if you are not going to

put too much faith in military decisions where it comes to equipment.

Then just who are you going to trust to get things done?

 

[FLEA]

New army uniforms are aweful.....that new camo would of been a much better choice.

https://peosoldier.army.mil/photos/ACU2_low.jpg

 

[westpointranger]

As far as the heads of the military making large scale mistakes on equipment etc. I feel we have become much better at taking care of our soldiers and thoroughly testing their equipment. We have come a long way since the days of Vietnam. Of course if you dig deep enough you will find mistakes made everywhere, but look at where we are now, we have made so much progress, if you are not going to

Well said, except perhaps the new Army uniforms, but time will tell whether or not they're combat ready. Here's some pics:

http://peosoldier.army.mil/default.asp?section=acu

 

[Madison]

Us Army camp comes in a general set of two desert and woodlands. There not suposed to completely break up the human figure in just one enviroment its suposed to break you up a bit and a wide variety. And it does work, The us marines have been useing the same general type of camo (the geometeric patterns) for woodlands for quite some time now.

 

[westpointranger]

The US Army is going to issue the new ACU's in one "universal" camo pattern, not two. It's supposed to work in any environment (woodland, desert, or urban) but I have my doubts about the sanity of such a decision. If they did want a universal pattern, the Scorpion BDU's would probably work better in my opinion.

 

[CM2k]

Odds are the new military camo was more focused on rural and urban areas, compared with deserts. I doubt that wonderful white and grey camo pattern would cut it in the woods.