Somewhat OT: SF prep (18x MOS)

22295 Views 51 Replies 12 Participants Last post by ulairi, Dec 26, 2004

ulairi

Discussion Starter · Sep 8, 2004

I realize this is not exactly sniper-related and apologize in advance.

I am seriously considering joining the US Army and have been eyeing the Special Forces branch (18-series of MOS). While I have a rather good understanding of what it'd take to prep for the boot camp - I've been running, gym, the usual, the information on what it'd take to get into SF is barren, and I cannot find any reliable sources of information of what it takes (both on a mental aspect and on a physical one) to pass the qualification course. Normally, I'd rummage through the pertinent FM(s) to see what kind of training will be conducted, but they are unavailable through the usual sources. Any information would be helpful (including "You won't cut it" if you tell me why you feel that way).

Hoping for SF is already high enough, I won't fixate on the sharpshooter qual within SF, though I'd like to try.

On a separate note, while I know how I feel about the military and joining up, I am having a hard time articulating it when asked. The closest I've come up with is "There is evil in this world. Great, unspeakable evil. And it is perpetrated by people, so it can only be stopped by people. Perhaps I have skills that would be useful to this purpose. Only one way to find out". Certainly, that is not my one and only reason to considering joining up, but it is one of the biggest one. Those of you who have served or are serving - what are your reasons for signing up? Am I completely naive? All information/opinions are welcome.

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truewarrior

· #21 · Sep 9, 2004

Go to the websites and read. Call one of the contact guys whose job it is to recruit men into SF and ask questions. Specifically,

"Sergeant, what is the process for new recruits who want to apply for SF?"

"Sergeant, would acceptance to SF training be written into my contract?"

then throw in some "thankyou Sergeant", "I appreciate your time", etc.

-truewarrior

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #22 · Sep 10, 2004

truewarrior said:
Go to the websites and read. Call one of the contact guys whose job it is to recruit men into SF and ask questions. Specifically,

"Sergeant, what is the process for new recruits who want to apply for SF?"

"Sergeant, would acceptance to SF training be written into my contract?"

then throw in some "thankyou Sergeant", "I appreciate your time", etc.

-truewarrior

Most excellent, will do. Thank you

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #23 · Sep 10, 2004

subThermal said:
Contract at the recruiter? I don't remember that, but then again, my Reruiter was ate up from the floor up. No, anything you sign at the Recruiters dont mean jack crap, in fact, until you swear in the second time, nothing means jack crap.

Until they have you on a plane headed to Ft. Benning you can still change your mind.

When I went through, we had a whole plt. of 18 series going through, although, once 99% of them failed sf they would become 11b.

You want your boots snug, if you get crappy boots you would rather castrate yourself than have the blisters I did. Boots are leather, they stretch, you want them snug at the start so they will mold to your feet.

Minding the cold is one thing, minding the cold at parade rest for 1.5 hours in the sleeting rain at 0400 is different in PT gear (shorts and a thing long sleeve Tshirt).

All that bullshit crap the army puts out about basic is true... except for any infantry MOS, then it gets harder. You got your signal core pukes in thier polypros, and your freezing your ass off.

As far as Cali heat, you get no sympathy from me, Tejas gets hot as well my friend.

You win

subThermal

· #24 · Sep 10, 2004

I wasn't trying to win or prove anything.

Have fun, and drive on. I support and respect all our current and hopeful troops. Even those Airforce guys :wink:

Max338

· #25 · Sep 10, 2004

Sub-
When Ulari means heat... he means 100 degrees + its been hot lately...
Ulari what part of town u live in?

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #26 · Sep 10, 2004

Max338 said:
Sub-
When Ulari means heat... he means 100 degrees + its been hot lately...
Ulari what part of town u live in?

I live in Sherman Oaks, but I run in Northridge (around work). Sub's right, Tejas is hotter (and more humid, which is what gets to be nasty, especially when running in BDU's).

I'll be having chat(s) with the recruitment guys at the links TrueWarrior suggested and see what I get from those guys. The more I read about SF, the more I like what they are, what they do, and what they are about (didn't know the extent of their peacetime involvement with things like Hurricane Andrew recovery as well as others).

Have to get my hands on SFAS Physical Training Handbook (PT-31-210-SWCS), see what's inside, compare it to my current regimen. 601-25 is quite helpful - I need to work a lot more on my running if I am to try their recommended 5-week program.

We'll see how it goes.

subThermal

· #27 · Sep 10, 2004

running in BDU's).

As far as Basic goes, you run in PT gear, not BDU's. Now, you march in BDU's and you will have to do "correctional PT" in BDU's, but you dont do your morning PT in your BDU's.

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #28 · Sep 10, 2004

subThermal said:
running in BDU's).

Click to expand...

As far as Basic goes, you run in PT gear, not BDU's. Now, you march in BDU's and you will have to do "correctional PT" in BDU's, but you dont do your morning PT in your BDU's.

You're right. However, SF's APFT is in BDU's and running shoes (I'll find out today if they mean BDU pants and t-shirt, or the whole thing sans the cover). So, I train how I want to play. For now, BDU days are the off-days, I lack the running skills to do my hard pushes in BDUs. I'll get there, though.

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #29 · Sep 12, 2004

Update

So, spoke to the folks at Ft. Lewis facility, who have referred me to the local recruiter, and told me the following:

1) There is a direct 18X enlistment option. (TrueWarrior was 100% correct).

Found out I had a score of 129 on the GT portion of the ASVAB, and that my lowest score was 128 on the mecanics portion.
Not sure what's involved in the SECRET clearance, but from what I've been told, I understand that it is a rather routine thing.
I am fluent in Russian, so DLPT should not pose an issue.
I've jumped out of a perfectly good airplaine with a parachute, and I can also fly one - student pilot, so the Airborne thing is unlikely to pose an issue unless I am misunderstanding what it takes to get an Airborne rating (please let me know, so I can take it into account).

All the documents that are necessary for the packet have already been given to my recruiter, he tells me that the only thing that remains is the MEPS, which includes a physical, and that I won't pass - the Army way of figuring out one's bodyfat percentage indicates I am at 26.23% - so, I have some work to do. Hehe.

2) Second option is to go Ranger and then after a year or two attempt SF (having reached a Specialist rating). Most people who go into SF do so from Rangers.

Having looked at the 601-25 ch 4. and the recommended 5-week trainup, it looks like option #2 is what I'd need - I lack the endurance or the speed to do the necessary running. While I feel fairly confident that I will be able to pass the SF APFT high enough (above 226, likely into 260+ range - I can max the situps and the pushups without trouble, it is the running... 2 miles in 14:53 is the best I've timed myself for now, but I could not sustain that speed for more than 2.5 miles), I do not believe that at this time, I've trained enough to be able to actually survive the actual SF training.

Thanks to everyone who has dug out info, memories, suggestions, et cetera.

As per usual, comments, suggestions - all welcome.

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truewarrior

· #30 · Sep 12, 2004

I suggest you stick to direct enlistment into SF. A ranger's mission is entirely different from SF. What do you want to do?
Are you in a hurry to get into the army?
Your body fat measurement will plague you no matter what you choose to do in the army. There are techniques to improving your BF measurement without having to shed a bunch of weight.
Airborne school is 3 weeks at Ft Benning, lots of running, pull ups, and sawdust pits. It is all static line (no ram air chutes).
Ranger school involves a decent amount of running and is several weeks of intense physical training compounded by very little sleep.
If SF is what you want to do, then do what it takes. Realize that going ranger first, it would be at least 3-4yrs before you could transition to SF training.
As far as your run time, seek out help. Find a local running club, talk to the track coach at the local high school or university. Run time can be improved by refining form, stride, breathing, etc.

-truewarrior

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #31 · Sep 13, 2004

truewarrior said:
I suggest you stick to direct enlistment into SF. A ranger's mission is entirely different from SF. What do you want to do?

Of all the jobs the Army has to offer, I liked SF - the duality of independence and working within the framework of a very regimented life that is military's nature. The fact that SF teams are given goals and the means to accomplish it, instead of just ordered to perform simple tasks. I admit, I've not taken a very close look at Rangers. In your opinion, what are the important differences between Rangers and SF? I'll go wade hip-deep in PR, see what it says, too

truewarrior said:
Are you in a hurry to get into the army?

Not so much, but I am 27 - I do not want to bump up against age limits.

truewarrior said:
Your body fat measurement will plague you no matter what you choose to do in the army. There are techniques to improving your BF measurement without having to shed a bunch of weight.

Yeah, but it's not what I am after, unless I can be reasonably sure that I'll pick up a lot more out of Basic.

truewarrior said:
Airborne school is 3 weeks at Ft Benning, lots of running, pull ups, and sawdust pits. It is all static line (no ram air chutes).

Unimpressive, though I can see why they'd not run full ram air chutes.

truewarrior said:
Ranger school involves a decent amount of running and is several weeks of intense physical training compounded by very little sleep.
If SF is what you want to do, then do what it takes. Realize that going ranger first, it would be at least 3-4yrs before you could transition to SF training.

How do you figure 3-4 years?

truewarrior said:
As far as your run time, seek out help. Find a local running club, talk to the track coach at the local high school or university. Run time can be improved by refining form, stride, breathing, etc.

You're absolutely correct. Already on it (helps to work at a University, grin)

truewarrior

· #32 · Sep 14, 2004

Important differences between Rangers and SF: SF soldiers work in small units (several members) called A-teams. They conduct unconvential warfare, foreign internal defense, etc. A very important aspect of SF is training foreign troops. Rangers are a light, mobile infantry force (shock troops) with some specialized training. One of the primary missions of Rangers is assaulting airfields. Rangers typically (though not always) operate in large numbers.

About BF: the way BF is measured at meps is screwy. The difference between neck and waist measurements can be a killer. So, even though you may not have a big beer gut, if you have small neck the result is a high BF%. Simply, if you can't trim any more inches off your waist, try adding to your neck.

You dismiss static line jumping too quickly. A static line combat jump could go something like: moonless night, 500ft AGL (reserves optional), several knots of wind speed, multiship C-17 each filled (hundreds of jumpers). Oh, and the planes might be receiving ground fire (ie Grenada). VERY DANGEROUS! Much different than a freefall from 12000ft where your biggest worry is making a better landing than your other 9 buddies.

I figured 3-4 years because training will chew up about 6-9 months and then the LAST thing (read: shoot yourself in the head first) you want to do when you get to your Ranger Regiment is tell the Sergeant Major you want to put in your application for SF training.

-truewarrior

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subThermal

· #33 · Sep 14, 2004

Don't forget, with that many troops in the air, someone could steal your air. I've had several buddies become pancakes, or break bones because someone stole thier air.

We had a guy "lose' his weapon at exit, at night, with no moon. Anyone familiar with the Military knows what happens next. :x

mele

· #34 · Sep 14, 2004

sub, thats not good!

How long did it take to find it? (with everyone looking)

MEL

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #35 · Sep 14, 2004

truewarrior said:
Important differences between Rangers and SF: SF soldiers work in small units (several members) called A-teams. They conduct unconvential warfare, foreign internal defense, etc. A very important aspect of SF is training foreign troops. Rangers are a light, mobile infantry force (shock troops) with some specialized training. One of the primary missions of Rangers is assaulting airfields. Rangers typically (though not always) operate in large numbers.

Yeah, the notion of an A-team appeals to me a lot more (I suspect I'm not the only one, hence the difficult competition to get in... GRIN)

truewarrior said:
About BF: the way BF is measured at meps is screwy. The difference between neck and waist measurements can be a killer. So, even though you may not have a big beer gut, if you have small neck the result is a high BF%. Simply, if you can't trim any more inches off your waist, try adding to your neck.

Hehe. I have waist I can lose

truewarrior said:
You dismiss static line jumping too quickly. A static line combat jump could go something like: moonless night, 500ft AGL (reserves optional), several knots of wind speed, multiship C-17 each filled (hundreds of jumpers). Oh, and the planes might be receiving ground fire (ie Grenada). VERY DANGEROUS! Much different than a freefall from 12000ft where your biggest worry is making a better landing than your other 9 buddies.

You're right, for whatever reason, when you said "static line", I got the picture in my head of the jumps into the sandpits from a tower, not actual plane exits.

truewarrior said:
I figured 3-4 years because training will chew up about 6-9 months and then the LAST thing (read: shoot yourself in the head first) you want to do when you get to your Ranger Regiment is tell the Sergeant Major you want to put in your application for SF training.

Sounds like sheer masochism.

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #36 · Sep 14, 2004

subThermal said:
Don't forget, with that many troops in the air, someone could steal your air. I've had several buddies become pancakes, or break bones because someone stole thier air.

We had a guy "lose' his weapon at exit, at night, with no moon. Anyone familiar with the Military knows what happens next. :x

Wait, let me guess... Everyone looks for it until it is found?

subThermal

· #37 · Sep 14, 2004

Yup, and the base goes in lockdown.

Around breakfast the next day is when we found it.

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #38 · Sep 14, 2004

subThermal said:
Yup, and the base goes in lockdown.

Around breakfast the next day is when we found it.

Ooh, fun for the whole family. Grin. I'd imagine the person who has lost the weapon would be quite... appreciated by the rest of the base personnel? :?

ulairi

Discussion Starter · #39 · Sep 14, 2004

weapon transport

I know that no weapons are allowed in Basic. But once one gets to the duty station, are they allowed? How does one transport personal weapon? Across state lines is relatively simple if it is a drive. A bit more complicated with rail and aircraft post 9-11, but is doable, too. What about international (say, you're stationed in Germany)?

6.5shooter

· #40 · Sep 15, 2004

I was previously stationed in Germany with the AF. If we brought over personal weapons we had to store them in the armory with the Secutiry forces. So i left all of them here to keep others from playing with my guns.
Just my 2 cents

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