Sniper & Sharpshooter Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How about a single shot 30-30 with an M-4 stock, bipod, muzzle break, AR handguards, and a barrel shroud with integral ghost ring sights? This is the strangest thing I have seen in a while...I wonder if anyone strapped this stuff to his poor handi-rifle yet?

http://www.atigunstocks.com/shotforce-HRNEF.html

heh, pimpin' :roll:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,894 Posts
Yeah, uh... hum. The break action function of the handi rifle does not lend itself well to follow up shots, especially when in the prone

MEL
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Heh, yeah, you got it Mel. The handi rifle doesn't, as the ads say, "satisfy your tactical shooting needs"...It's an economic, accurate lil' hunting rifle. Worst part is, once someone spends money for all that junk to hang on their poor little brush gun, they coulda spent that money on a 700P.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
JRP3 said:
Let's just cut to the chase...

http://www.impactguns.com/store/knights_masterkey.html

I saw one of these the other day on another site, was a 7 round 870 made for a 20" AR.

John
As far as i knwo the military is testing/using 2 kinds of shotguns for CQB that are atachable to other guns via weaver rails. The one there is obviously an 870 but the military has made their own that can also be used as a regular shotgun.

XM-26 LSS http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh28-e.htm

870MCS http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh17-e.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,795 Posts
ghostinthewood said:
JRP3 said:
Let's just cut to the chase...

http://www.impactguns.com/store/knights_masterkey.html

I saw one of these the other day on another site, was a 7 round 870 made for a 20" AR.

John
As far as i knwo the military is testing/using 2 kinds of shotguns for CQB that are atachable to other guns via weaver rails. The one there is obviously an 870 but the military has made their own that can also be used as a regular shotgun.

XM-26 LSS http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh28-e.htm

870MCS http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh17-e.htm
Screw that. In CQB I want a shotgun, and not as an accessary to my M4. I have seen wounds from everything .22 and up. I can tell you this a 12 G is the king of CQB unless you are on a rescue mission with hostages.

Case #1 12 G set off when stuck in someone mouth.

Result. Entire head taken off above the lower jaw and blown all over the walls and celing. The guys brains were dripping on us when we enterd the room.

Case 2. Contact wound to center of chest.

Result, 2" hole in middle of chest, with what was left of the heart hanging half out. The rest of the chest cavity had all the organs shoved aside making most of the chest cavity hollow.


Well I will let you get back to your dinner now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
re

Shotguns don't really have much of a place in the military anymore. They can be decent in jungles and room clearing, but you are stuck if you are engaged by an enemy at 100m's or more.
The only thing they really do better than an assault rifle is breach doors, and fire flares and the likes with speciality ammunition.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Hey Eka, the Devil called me last night...He said "Hey Muzz, Eka's giving me nightmares, make him stop!' :lol:

Just kiddin. Ever see a deer that caught a round of buckshot? All I'll say is I sure wouldn't like that happening to me

With modern shotgun ammo, Buckshot is effective to 75 meters and sabot slugs can group 2 inches at 100 meters...There may still be a place for shotguns in FIBUA (MOUT)

I've seen US soldiers with an M4 and a shotgun slung over their back...That was cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
Re: re

Yimmy said:
Shotguns don't really have much of a place in the military anymore. They can be decent in jungles and room clearing, but you are stuck if you are engaged by an enemy at 100m's or more.
The only thing they really do better than an assault rifle is breach doors, and fire flares and the likes with speciality ammunition.
Do you understand what the "C" means in CQB, Yimmy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,357 Posts
Shotguns will always have their place in combat!

I called in a turkey and my cousin shot it at 65yds (paced off). I had a Mossberg 695 slug gun that would group 1-2 MOA all day long and 100 yds. Never shot it any further than 100 yds, but it should hold up out to 150-175 yds, maybe further. And that is shooting a 1oz. solid copper slug. They will in NO way replace a rifle. Each one has their place.

I would like to have a AOW shotgun for around the house :twisted: . (Just hate to have to pay the NFA transfer fee.)

Back on topic:
I could see a use for the "tactical" handi rifles on the farm for dogs and other critters where you could just toss the rifle in the back of the truck or keep it in the cab of the tractor and not worry about a $2k rifle. Could be the poor mans sniper rifle I guess? (but I thought that was a savage :lol: )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
caver101 said:
I could see a use for the "tactical" handi rifles on the farm for dogs and other critters where you could just toss the rifle in the back of the truck or keep it in the cab of the tractor and not worry about a $2k rifle. Could be the poor mans sniper rifle I guess? (but I thought that was a savage :lol: )
Ruger's Mini-14 Ranch Rifle works very well for this purpose
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,357 Posts
True, but you can not hit the broad side of a barn (I could not) with a mini 14 or mini 30. I have had both and I would not dare to take a shot at 200 yds on a dog. Ruger needs to make a more accurate system. Besides, Ruger is as anti people as Colt is. Ever wonder why you can only get a 5 rnd mag for a Mini?? Thank Mr. Ruger (or whoever is running the company now). Think you can pick up that I do not care for the Ruger Co. ?? Enough about ruger.

I agree that there are many other rifles that would work better. I wonder how the Handi rifle holds up in the accuracy dept? I guess the Handi rifle is MUCH cheaper, at around $200+ (I think).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,927 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
How about just scoping the handi-rifle? No need for an M4 collapsable stock, or barrel shroud with ghost rings, or M-16 handguards lol.

Spend that money on ammo or something. Or a new barrel in another chambering
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
Re: re

lonewolf said:
Do you understand what the "C" means in CQB, Yimmy?
Yes, it stands for close.

And thanks for the comment Caver, but although it is well and good that your friend can kill a chicken at 65 yards with a shotgun, give me an assault rifle and I will blow the bollocks off a chicken at 300m's away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
Re: re

lonewolf said:
Do you understand what the "C" means in CQB, Yimmy?
I've never been in CQB, but a number of people here have. So: when you're not room-clearing (as Yimmy permits), what are the odds you'd say to yourself, "I wish I had a shotgun right now..." during an outdoors CQB fight?

The reason I believe a rifle would be much more favorable is that as accurate as a shotgun may be, that isn't taking into consideration your own inaccuracy under the stress of the fight: so when you miss that first shot, how long will it take you to make the second?

The second reason being round capacity: a rifle can hold 30 rounds, and then be reloaded very quickly: how long does it take to reload a shotgun's... eight rounds?

I think I'd rather the rifle for the most part, too, lest someone can give me a reason otherwise.

Scatch Maroo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,276 Posts
re

I like shotguns, and would like to be issued one (in my fantasy world mind of mine) - in reality I would rather have an assault rifle.

Not even a shotgun can compete with a 30 round burst from an assault rifle clearing a room.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,795 Posts
Re: re

Scatch Maroo said:
lonewolf said:
Do you understand what the "C" means in CQB, Yimmy?
I've never been in CQB, but a number of people here have. So: when you're not room-clearing (as Yimmy permits), what are the odds you'd say to yourself, "I wish I had a shotgun right now..." during an outdoors CQB fight?

The reason I believe a rifle would be much more favorable is that as accurate as a shotgun may be, that isn't taking into consideration your own inaccuracy under the stress of the fight: so when you miss that first shot, how long will it take you to make the second?

The second reason being round capacity: a rifle can hold 30 rounds, and then be reloaded very quickly: how long does it take to reload a shotgun's... eight rounds?

I think I'd rather the rifle for the most part, too, lest someone can give me a reason otherwise.

Scatch Maroo

CQB is an indoor activity aka room clearing, MOUNT etc. The 30 round capacity is not a big factor. If you miss your first shot, you will be lucky to get a second. Also a shotgun can be reloaded as you go, meaning you don't have to pull you magazine out and hpoe no one surprises you while you are in the middle of a reload. You can top off after every room. Add to this the versitilty of shotgun rounds like buckshot, slugs, CS, flairs etc and for close quaters the shotgun is king. If you can't hit anything with 8 rounds you are dead anyway.


Let us not forget the fact some hit squarly in the shest with OO Buck or a slug has a whole lot less chance of getting up than a guy taking a .223 round in the chest. There are to many times that the .223 round didn't put someone down quick enough and the guy shot the guy that killed him. This has been documented very well in Somilia in Blackhawk Down. Several Delta boys mention that one of the snipers that got killed, I cant remember if it weas Shuggart or Gorden, cought a lot of flack for carrying an M-14 insted of the M-4. They said afer getting good solid center mass hits 5-6 times before some of these folks would go down, they started carrying the M-14.

A rifle round will overpenetrate like crazy. Your buddies in the next house may not appreciate your spraying them through the walls. OO buck doesnt penetrate like a rifle round. On the other hand, for taking out a barracaded guy, the slug will not only penetrate well, it will knock the guy on his butt if it hits him. Granted a .50 would do better but they are a little awkward in CQB.

The draw back of a shotgun is that ammo is very heavy. On the other hand 6 feet of dirt on top of me in a box is a lot heaver. If you get into a CQB feel to carry what you want, just don't whine to me when you hit some guy whacked out on the local chemical recreation and he puts a round through your gut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,357 Posts
I am not saying that shotguns should replace rifles...........come on guys (Yimmy). Each have there own role to play. If you have ever seen something that was hit with a 1oz. slug or 00 buck shot you would understand.

The "chicken" is shot in the head, not center mass, so you see the accuracy is there for the shotgun.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top